Anthropic's Labs Lead On Fable's Capabilities + Building AI-Native Products — With Mike Krieger
Mike Krieger is the head of Anthropic Labs and co-founder of Instagram. Krieger joins Big Technology Podcast live from the Big Technology AI Summit to discuss what it's like inside Anthropic the week the government forced the company to pull its frontier models, Fable and Mythos, off the market. Tune in to hear Krieger describe how working with Fable changed the way he builds — queuing up a full night of work before bed and waking to find it finished in an hour — why he insists Anthropic's safety warnings are material rather than marketing, and how Anthropic navigates being both a platform and a product as it competes with the companies building on top of it. Wired senior correspondent Lauren Goode joins as a co-interviewer. Hit play for a rare look inside the lab from the person building Anthropic's next breakout product.
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AI Agent documentary: https://www.gravitee.io/ai-agent-documentary
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How AI Starts Doing the Work in 2026 With Anthropic CPO Mike Krieger
Anthropic CPO and Instagram co-founder Mike Krieger joins the AI Daily Brief to talk about the rise of vibe coding, why coding agents quietly became the breakout AI use case of 2025, and how enterprises are beginning to move from chatbots to real workload-taking agents. The conversation explores how tools like Claude Code escaped the developer box, what it takes to design products for capabilities that don’t fully exist yet, and why 2026 may be the year AI starts reliably taking work off people’s plates inside large organizations at Anthropic.
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Blitzy.com - Go to https://blitzy.com/ to build enterprise software in days, not months
Robots & Pencils - Cloud-native AI solutions that power results https://robotsandpencils.com/
The Agent Readiness Audit from Superintelligent - Go to https://besuper.ai/ to request your company's agent readiness score.
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Anthropic Chief Product Officer: Why AI Model Development Is Accelerating — With Mike Krieger
Mike Krieger is the chief product officer at Anthropic and co-founder of Instagram. Krieger joins Big Technology Podcast to discuss Anthropic's Sonnet 4.5 launch and how the company's been able to speed up AI model development. Tune in to hear how Anthropic is using internal tools to move fast, where the next generations of model improvements will look like, and whether model orchestration will be the core differentiator between labs. We also cover how AI development compares to social media, whether AI content will ever take off, and enterprise AI's path ahead.
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Anthropic’s CPO on what comes next | Mike Krieger (co-founder of Instagram)
Mike Krieger is the chief product officer of Anthropic and the co-founder of Instagram. After leaving Meta, he co-founded Artifact, an AI-powered news app that I absolutely loved, and joined Anthropic to lead product in 2024.
In this episode, you'll learn:
• How Anthropic uses AI to write 90-95% of code for some products and the surprising new bottlenecks this creates
• Why embedding product managers with AI researchers yields 10x the impact of traditional product development
• The three areas where product teams can still add massive value as AI gets smarter
• How Anthropic plans to compete with OpenAI long-term
• How to use Claude as your product strategy partner (with specific prompting techniques)
• Why Mike shut down Artifact despite loving the product, and what founders can learn from it
• Where AI startups should build to avoid getting killed by OpenAI, Anthropic, and Google
• Why MCP (Model Context Protocol) might reshape how all software works
• The counterintuitive product metrics that matter for AI
• How to evaluate whether your company is maximizing AI’s potential or just scratching the surface
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Brought to you by:
Productboard—Make products that matter
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Where to find Mike Krieger:
• X: https://x.com/mikeyk
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikekrieger/
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Where to find Lenny:
• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com
• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/
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In this episode, we cover:
(00:00) Introduction to Mike Krieger
(04:20) What Mike has changed his mind about regarding AI capabilities
(07:38) How to avoid scary AI scenarios
(08:55) Skills kids will need in an AI world
(11:53) How product development changes when 90% of code is written by AI
(17:07) Claude helping with product strategy
(21:16) A new way of working
(23:55) The future value of product teams in an AI world
(27:18) Prompting tricks to get more out of Claude
(29:52) The Rick Rubin collaboration on “vibe coding”
(32:42) How Mike was recruited to Anthropic
(35:55) Why Mike shut down Artifact
(42:41) Anthropic vs. OpenAI
(47:11) Where AI founders should play to avoid getting squashed
(51:58) How companies can best leverage Anthropic’s models and APIs
(54:29) The role of MCPs (Model Context Protocols)
(58:25) Claude’s questions for Mike
(01:03:15) Claude’s heartfelt message to Mike
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Referenced:
• Anthropic: https://www.anthropic.com/
• Claude Opus 4: https://www.anthropic.com/claude/opus
• Dario Amodei on X: https://x.com/darioamodei
• AI 2027: https://ai-2027.com/
• Tobi Lütke’s leadership playbook: Playing infinite games, operating from first principles, and maximizing human potential (founder and CEO of Shopify): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/tobi-lutkes-leadership-playbook
• Claude Shannon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_Shannon
• Information theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_theory
• TypeScript: https://www.typescriptlang.org/
• Python: https://www.python.org/
• Rust: https://www.rust-lang.org/
• Bending the universe in your favor | Claire Vo (LaunchDarkly, Color, Optimizely, ChatPRD): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/bending-the-universe-in-your-favor
• Announcing a brand-new podcast: “How I AI” with Claire Vo: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/announcing-a-brand-new-podcast-how
• A conversation with OpenAI’s CPO Kevin Weil, Anthropic’s CPO Mike Krieger, and Sarah Guo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxkvVZua28k
• Jack Clark on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jack-clark-5a320317/
• Artifact: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artifact_(app)
• Joel Lewenstein on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joel-lewenstein/
• Daniela Amodei on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniela-amodei-790bb22a/
• Boris Cherny on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bcherny/
• Gunnar Gray on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gunnargray/
• The Model Context Protocol: https://www.anthropic.com/news/model-context-protocol
• The rise of Cursor: The $300M ARR AI tool that engineers can’t stop using | Michael Truell (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-rise-of-cursor-michael-truell
• Building Lovable: $10M ARR in 60 days with 15 people | Anton Osika (CEO and co-founder): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-lovable-anton-osika
• Inside Bolt: From near-death to ~$40m ARR in 5 months—one of the fastest-growing products in history | Eric Simons (founder and CEO of StackBlitz): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-bolt-eric-simons
• Jimmy Kimmel Live: https://www.youtube.com/user/JimmyKimmelLive
• ChatGPT: https://chatgpt.com/
• Gemini: https://gemini.google.com/app
• OpenAI’s CPO on how AI changes must-have skills, moats, coding, startup playbooks, more | Kevin Weil (CPO at OpenAI, ex-Instagram, Twitter): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/kevin-weil-open-ai
• Windsurf: https://windsurf.com/
• Menlo Ventures: https://menlovc.com/
• Harvey: https://www.harvey.ai/
• Manus: https://manus.im/
• Bench: https://www.bench-ai.com/
• Strategy Letter V: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/06/12/strategy-letter-v/
• Kevin Scott on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jkevinscott/
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Recommended books:
• The Goal: A Process of Ongoing Improvement: https://www.amazon.com/Goal-Process-Ongoing-Improvement/dp/0884271951
• The Way of the Code: The Timeless Art of Vibe Coding: https://www.thewayofcode.com/
• The Hard Thing About Hard Things: Building a Business when There Are No Easy Answers―Straight Talk on the Challenges of Entrepreneurship: https://www.amazon.com/Hard-Thing-About-Things-Building/dp/0062273205
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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.
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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe
The A.I. Jobpocalypse + Building at Anthropic with Mike Krieger + Hard Fork Crimes Division
This week, we dive into Kevin’s recent column about how A.I. is affecting the job market for new graduates, and debate whether the job apocalypse is already here for entry-level work. Then Mike Krieger joins us to discuss the new Claude 4 model, the future of work and the online chatter over whether an A.I. system could blackmail you. And finally, it’s time to open up the case files for another round of Hard Fork Crimes Division.
Guest:
Mike Krieger, chief product officer at Anthropic
Additional Reading:
For Some Recent Graduates, the A.I. Job Apocalypse May Already Be Here
Another Suspect Is Charged in Bitcoin Kidnapping and Torture Case
Elizabeth Holmes’s Partner Has a New Blood-Testing Start-Up
We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.
Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.
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20VC: Anthropic CPO Mike Krieger: Where Will Value Be Created in a World of AI | Have Foundation Models Commoditized | When Do Model Providers Become Application Providers | What Anthropic Learned from Deepseek
Mike Krieger is the Co-Founder of Instagram and now CPO @ Anthropic.
In Today's Episode with Mike Krieger We Discuss:
03:07 Where Will Value Be Created and Sustained in a World of AI?
04:59 Are Foundation Models Commoditised Today?
08:36 Should Founders Build for the Models of Today or Build for Models of the Future
12:19: Why Will Models Become More Different Than More Similar
16:38: Will Human or Synthetic Data Be More Prominent in the Future
19:28 Model Quality vs. Product UX
23:36 The Competitive Landscape of AI
32:27 Do We Underestimate China's AI Capabilities
33:59 What Did Anthropic Learn from Deepseek
34:07 Is Deepseek a Sustaining and Credible Threat?
37:04 Transitioning from Model Provider to Application Provider
38:26 Where Has Anthropic Chronically Under-Invested
39:08 Why Has Anthropic Been Slow On Consumer Product Development
43:50 What is the Role of a Software Developer in the Future
48:29 Balancing API and Consumer Products
51:09 Is Europe Stronger or Weaker in a World of AI
52:40 Quickfire Round: Insights and Reflections
Anthropic’s Mike Krieger wants to build AI products that are worth the hype
Today, I’m talking with Mike Krieger, the new chief product officer at Anthropic, one of the hottest AI companies in the industry. Anthropic’s main product right now is Claude, the name of both its industry-leading AI model and a chatbot that competes with ChatGPT.
Mike has a fascinating resume: he was the cofounder of Instagram, and then started AI-powered newsreader Artifact. I was a fan of Artifact, so I wanted to know more about the decision to shut it down as well as the decision to sell it to Yahoo. And then I wanted to know why Mike decided to join Anthropic and work in AI — an industry with a lot of investment, but very few consumer products to justify it. What’s this all for?
Links:
Instagram co-founder Mike Krieger is Anthropic’s new chief product officer | The Verge
Instagram’s co-founders are shutting down their Artifact news app | The Verge
Yahoo resurrects Artifact inside a new AI-powered News app | The Verge
Authors sue Anthropic for training AI using pirated books | The Verge
The text file that runs the internet | The Verge
Anthropic’s crawler is ignoring websites’ anti-AI scraping policies | The Verge
Golden Gate Claude | Anthropic
Inside the white-hot center of AI doomerism | New York Times
Dario Amodei, CEO of Anthropic, on the paradoxes of AI safety | Hard Fork
No one’s ready for this | The Verge
OpenAI announces SearchGPT, its AI-powered search engine | The Verge
Amazon-backed Anthropic rolls out Claude AI for big business | CNBC
Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/24001603
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
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20VC: Instagram Founders Kevin Systrom and Mike Krieger on Why Social Networks Should Be Less Social & The Next Wave of Social | Why San Francisco Will Return with a Vengeance and The Future For Remote Work | Let's Get Personal: Relationships to Money, Be
Kevin Systrom and Mike Krieger are the co-founders of Instagram. Since its release in 2010, Instagram has become of the most significant products in modern society shaping the way millions of people engage with the world around them. In January this year, Kevin and Mike announced their return to the founding arena with the launch of Artifact, a personalized news feed driven by artificial intelligence.
In Today's Show with Kevin Systrom and Mike Krieger We Discuss:
1.) The Perfect Partnership:
Question from Josh Kushner @ Thrive: What makes Kevin and Mike such a great partnership?
What was the last disagreement they had? How was it resolved?
They built Instagram in person, in an office. They are building Artifact remotely, what has changed in the way they operate when comparing remote to in-person?
2.) Why Social Networks are Broken & The Next Frontier:
Why does Kevin believe social networks today are broken and should be less social?
What fundamental premise are social networks built on that Kevin believes is wrong?
How will AI and machine learning be central in the next wave of social?
How do Kevin and Mike evaluate TikTok and the next wave of content discovery?
3.) Welcome Artifact: The Comeback:
Why does Kevin believe they chose the worst idea for their new company? Why is it?
Were they nervous about founding Artifact and expectations being so high given Instagram?
Why does Kevin argue that Artifact is not actually a "news app"?
What does Kevin believe is the biggest lesson Apple taught us about messaging?
4.) Family, Money, San Francisco:
Why does Kevin believe that SF will return as the centre of tech once again?
Why does Kevin believe that many millennials in the workforce today are entitled and soft?
How has becoming a father changed the way Kevin and Mike operate and execute?
How do Kevin and Mike assess their relationship with money today? How has it changed?
5.) Hiring, Investing, Managing:
What are some of Kevin and Mike's biggest lessons when it comes to hiring?
What are the single biggest hiring mistakes they have made?
Is it wrong to not hire someone because they are really really boring?
What are the biggest lessons for Kevin and Mike from their angel investing?
Live From The HIBT Summit: Kevin Systrom & Mike Krieger Of Instagram
Our third live episode from the 2019 How I Built This Summit features Kevin Systrom and Mike Krieger, co-founders of Instagram. They talk to Guy about what they've been doing since they stepped down from the company, and whether they think social media can still help make a kinder world. In the new year, we'll release more episodes from the HIBT Summit, so keep checking your podcast feed!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Kevin Systrom and Mike Krieger – How to Build a Great Product
My guests this week are Kevin Systrom and Mike Krieger, the co-founders of Instagram. I met Kevin and Mike a few months ago over a shared interest in business and investing. I have found them both to be extremely good people who have a rare talent for finding and solving interesting problems. Indeed, problem-solving and jobs-to-be-done is a big part of our conversation. I realized walking into the podcast that Kevin and Mike have a rare set of experiences: having both built and sold an extremely successful product from scratch, but then also operated and scaled inside one of the largest businesses in the world. This means they have unique knowledge to offer just about anyone interested in business and products. We dig into all those lessons here. I am working on hosting more founders and CEOs on the podcast, and can’t think of a better pair to show you why I want to do so. Please enjoy my conversation with Kevin and Mike.
For more episodes go to InvestorFieldGuide.com/podcast.
Sign up for the book club, where you’ll get a full investor curriculum and then 3-4 suggestions every month at InvestorFieldGuide.com/bookclub.
Follow Patrick on Twitter at @patrick_oshag
Show Notes
1:38 – (first question) – Projects they’ve been working on since leaving Instagram
5:22 – How they can apply what they are learning in machine learning
7:18 – Most interesting experience diving back into data and machine learning
8:42 – How startups compare today to when they founded Instagram
13:23 – Judging founders and whether they know how to use their data effectively
14:26 – The jobs-to-be-done framework
19:14 – Laying out a vision vs solving problems that pop up
25:20 – Developing and sharing the principles of the company with the team
30:48 – Creating a community when it includes almost the entire world
39:03 – The most popular ways people used the platform
41:24 – What was the jobs-to-be-done rational behind the stories feature
44:15 – Interesting things that they saw as Instagram entered the developing world
46:40 – Their thoughts on how Instagram shaped culture and if they focused on those
52:58 – The new waves that they are observing right now
55:11 – How their thinking on leadership and teams changed during their time at Instagram and Facebook
1:03:23 – The pillars of a good business, including humility and confidence
1:06:06 – Focus on growth and distribution in a startup
1:10:01 – How early were they thinking about monetization on this free platform
1:13:43 – How do they think about how they invest their money and allocate resources
1:17:36 – Mentors for Kevin and Mike
1:20:30 – Their passion for learning to fly and the someday/maybe list
1:23:01 – Their interest in coffee
1:26:24 – Advice for everyone else
1:30:00 – Kindest thing anyone has done for them
Learn More
For more episodes go to InvestorFieldGuide.com/podcast.
Sign up for the book club, where you’ll get a full investor curriculum and then 3-4 suggestions every month at InvestorFieldGuide.com/bookclub
Follow Patrick on twitter at @patrick_oshag
Instagram: Kevin Systrom & Mike Krieger (2017)
We're hard at work planning our upcoming live shows, so we bring you this favorite from the last year: Instagram. Kevin Systrom and Mike Krieger launched their photo-sharing app with a server that crashed every other hour. Despite a chaotic start, it became one of the most popular apps in the world. PLUS in our postscript "How You Built That," we check back with Dave Weiner of Priority Bicycles, a low-maintenance bicycle brand.
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Instagram: Kevin Systrom & Mike Krieger
Kevin Systrom and Mike Krieger launched their photo-sharing app with a server that crashed every other hour. Despite a chaotic start, Instagram became one of the most popular apps in the world.
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
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