The left and right agree on one thing: no data centers
Our guest today is Gaby Del Valle, a policy reporter here at The Verge, and we’re discussing the growing backlash against AI data centers. Gaby recently reported a fantastic piece about Hernando County, Florida, where last month the county commission unanimously approved a year-long moratorium on data center construction.
So I wanted Gaby to talk me through what these protests look like on the ground, from voters whose party affiliations have typically aligned them with big business.
Read the full interview transcript on The Verge.
Links:
Right-wingers protesting data centers have a lot in common with the left | The Verge
No data centers in my backyard | Jasmine Sun
Who’s afraid of the big, bad GPU? | The Verge
NY becomes the first state to enact a data center moratorium | The Verge
The fight against AI data centers is just beginning | The Verge
Florida gives millions in tax breaks to data centers under DeSantis-backed law | Tampa Bay Times
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Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our supervising producer is Greg Ott, and our editorial director is Kevin McShane.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Bluesky’s new CEO wants a big tent, not a bubble
Today, I’m talking with Toni Schneider, the new head of social platform Bluesky who formally took over after a short stint as interim CEO. This is one of my favorite kinds of interviews, because a couple years ago we had Bluesky’s prior CEO, Jay Graber, on the show — she’s now the company’s chief innovation officer. All of that kind of shuffle is pure Decoder bait: a new CEO often brings with them new priorities, which is perhaps the most Decoder subject of all.
Links:
Bluesky CEO Jay Graber | Decoder (2024)
Bluesky CEO Jay Graber steps down | TechCrunch
Staying in the game | Toni Schneider
The messy WordPress drama, explained | The Verge
Proton CTO Bart Butler | Decoder
Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Decoder’s producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Eileen Felix. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
The end of the human internet
Hey everyone, this is Nick Statt, senior producer on Decoder. We’re taking a brief publishing break while Nilay is out on vacation. We’ll resume regular programming next week, and we’ve got some great episodes in the works.
In the meantime, we wanted to share an episode from the excellent podcast The Gray Area, with host Sean Illing. In this one, Sean sat down with The Atlantic journalist Charlie Warzel to talk specifically about the state of the internet in 2026 — and what it means that it feels increasingly overrun by non-human actors.
Links:
The Gray Area with Sean Illing | Apple Podcasts
Galaxy Brain | The Atlantic
The internet is all bots now | The Gray Area (YouTube)
How much of the internet is fake? Turns out, a lot of it, actually| New York Magazine
How bots took over our lives | The New Yorker
The ‘dead internet theory’ is real — and it’s killing the web | Fast Company
The fanfare around the band Geese actually was a psyop | Wired
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Tariffs didn’t bring manufacturing jobs back to the US
Evan Smith, cofounder and CEO of Altana, was last on the show in early 2025 to talk about how Trump’s first few waves of tariffs were starting to affect global trade. It was a very alarming and also very illuminating chat; Evan and I got into the existential weeds of international relations and economics almost immediately.
A year and a half later, and everything is somehow even more chaotic than it was the last time Evan and I talked — and that’s true about both trade and also the world of running a software company. Agentic AI, whack-a-mole tariff policy, war in Iran — we jumped right back into weeds yet again.
Read the full interview transcript The Verge.
Links:
How Trump’s tariff chaos is already changing global trade | Decoder
Skydio CEO Adam Bry on not drawing red lines for drone use | Decoder
Trump imposes new global tariffs, drawing protests from trading partners | Reuters
Greer: USMCA Talks Could Stretch Into Next Year | Wall Street Journal
Trump hits Canada with new 50% tariffs | Associated Press
Iran weaponized the Strait of Hormuz. Now neighbors are going around it | CNN
The Iran war is testing Southeast Asia’s faith in the US | Politico
Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Decoder’s producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Kabir Chopra. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
What Apple’s OpenAI lawsuit is really about
Today, I’m talking with Hayden Field, The Verge’s senior AI reporter, about the major trade secrets lawsuit between Apple and OpenAI, and what this tells us about OpenAI’s future.
Hayden has been covering OpenAI for years now, and she also just talked to a bunch of lawyers who specialize in intellectual property and trade secret law to get a sense of how serious this case is. The answer is not entirely positive for OpenAI. This legal battle could also affect OpenAI’s hardware plans, its forthcoming IPO, and its already-damaged reputation.
Read the full interview transcript on The Verge.
Links:
Sam Altman didn’t need another lawsuit | The Verge
OpenAI’s first device will be moveable, screenless speaker | Bloomberg
Apple sues OpenAI for allegedly stealing hardware secrets | The Verge
The 6 wildest claims in Apple’s lawsuit against OpenAI | The Verge
OpenAI is buying Jony Ive’s AI hardware company | The Verge
Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Dr. Jill Lepore on why the AI backlash is vital for the future
Dr. Jill Lepore is one of the best writers there is at identifying institutional patterns in history, and Decoder is a show about systems and organization — so her new book, The Rise and Fall of the Artificial State, is a perfect fit for the show.
You build systems by measuring things — gathering information, quantifying it as data, and taking action on it. The book's big thesis is that this kind of systemic measurement is really a dehumanizing act, one that flattens humanity and human concerns into something, well, artificial.
These artificial structures touch everything — not just in the more obvious places like in apps or AI, but all the way up to politics, governance, and the very future of the nation-state itself.
Links:
The Artificial State | The New Yorker
‘Terminator’ to tech titans: Jill Lepore on the ‘artificial state’ | Yale Univ.
The failed ideas that drive Elon Musk | New York Times
Sam Altman | The Joe Rogan Experience
Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Decoder’s producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Xander Adams. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Proton’s CTO: No company is going to jail for you
We’ve got the first of a two-part series on the systems that run the world: I’m talking today with Bart Butler, the CTO of Proton, the company that makes private and secure productivity software.
There’s a lot of big Decoder themes in this one. That includes how Proton has structured its ownership and architected its products to align its incentives with protecting users. At the same time, Proton faces new challenges and pressures, both at home in Switzerland and from the EU and US government that are putting its values to the test.
Links:
Proton now offers an entire bundle of office services | The Verge
Proton Mail helped FBI unmask anonymous ‘Stop Cop City’ protester | 404Media
Proton says it will leave Switzerland if this controversial law Is passed | Vice
Age verification is a mess but we’re doing it anyway | The Verge
Let’s build a children’s public internet | The Verge
Let me see some ID: age verification is spreading across the internet | The Verge
Why Chat Control 1.0 is the EU's most Orwellian law yet | Euronews
Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Yes, even Nvidia's head of automotive is fighting for compute
Nvidia is obviously in the news constantly because of the AI boom — but it's also a major supplier to the entire auto industry As head of Nvidia's automotive division, Xinzhou Wu has a front-row seat to all the challenges EVs and autonomous vehicles are facing, especially in the US.
And of course, you can’t talk about electric cars or vehicle autonomy in the US without talking about Elon Musk and Tesla. So I asked Xinzhou pretty directly if Tesla full self driving can actually do what Elon claims it will be able to do without using LiDAR. You tell me if you think his answer holds up.
Read the full interview transcript on The Verge.
Links:
Nvidia’s head of autonomous driving opens up about his plans | The Verge
Hyundai, Nissan, BYD, and Geely Join Nvidia’s Level 4 | MotorTrend
Nvidia, auto suppliers roll out partnerships to rekindle self-driving | Reuters
Meet Alpamayo, Nvidia’s new AI model for autonomous cars | Forbes
I tested Nvidia’s FSD competitor — Tesla should be worried | The Verge
Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Decoder’s producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt; this episode was edited by Xander Adams. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Why did Comcast ever buy NBC?
My guest today is Peter Kafka, chief correspondent at Business Insider and host of Channels, a podcast about the media industry. And it’s a big week for the media industry — Comcast just announced that it’s splitting itself up, into the Comcast broadband company and the NBCUniversal entertainment company.
This dream, that you can combine distribution with big splashy entertainment properties, has failed time and again. But Comcast tried the content plus pipes strategy for longer than most. So Peter and I discussed what happened in the media and broadband industries over the last 15 years, and what might happen next.
Read the full interview transcript on The Verge.
Links:
Comcast is cutting NBCUniversal loose | Business Insider
Comcast’s split could make or break Peacock | The Verge
Comcast and NBCUniversal will go it alone. But for how long? | NYT
Comcast split shows bigger is no longer better | Deadline
A cable scion’s hardest deal yet: breaking up his family’s company | WSJ
Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Inside the big business of the creator economy, with Ali Berman and Raina Penchansky
Today I’m talking with Ali Berman and Raina Penchansky, who run the Creators Division at United Talent Agency. UTA is an enormous talent agency, and Ali and Raina's creators division represents some of the biggest creators and influencers in the world.
So I really wanted to know how Raina and Ali identify up-and-coming talent, how they work with that talent to build durable businesses, and what the machinations of being a top creator actually look like in practice.
Read the full interview transcript on The Verge.
Links:
The power brokers behind the $250B influencer economy | Wall Street Journal
The Influencer Cliff | Carmen Vicente (TikTok)
UTA Unveils Upscale Office for Creators | The Hollywood Reporter
YouTube Stars Breach Hollywood’s Most Gilded Gate | New York Times
CAA, TPG form holding company to acquire creator-led businesses | Variety
How creator talent agencies are evolving into multi-platform operators | Digiday
Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt; this episode was edited by Xander Adams. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
The CMO is a dying role, says Digitas' Amy Lanzi
We’ve got a special Decoder today. I had the chance to talk with Amy Lanzi, the CEO of Digitas North America, in front of a live audience at the Uber villa at the Cannes Lions advertising festival in the south of France.
There’s a lot in this one on AI, the creator economy, and the future of marketing – like I said, Amy is as sharp as they come, and I really enjoy talking to her about how the money really works.
Read the full interview transcript on The Verge.
Links:
The Influencer Cliff | Carmen Vicente (TikTok)
The Wrong Promises | Publicis Groupe (YouTube)
You can just tell the Instagram algorithm what you want now | The Verge
How brands and creators are fighting for your attention and money | Decoder (2025)
How influencers are changing advertising, with Digitas’ Amy Lanzi | Decoder (2024)
Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
He changed outdoor cooking forever — then took over Weber
It’s time for our annual Fourth of July grill episode here at Decoder, which is when we invite the CEOs of outdoor cooking companies onto the show to explain just how their businesses kind of look like every other business. And this is a very special edition.
Today we’re talking to Roger Dahle, the CEO of Weber Blackstone, a full circle moment for Decoder. Roger was our first-ever grill CEO on the show back when he was the CEO of just Blackstone. Five years later, Roger now runs one of his biggest competitors, after Blackstone announced a merger with Weber in 2024. So we talked about that process, and how Roger is managing the integration of these two grilling giants.
Links:
Weber and Blackstone to combine | The Verge
How Blackstone became the darling of grill TikTok | Decoder (2021)
How arson led to a culture reboot at Traeger, with CEO Jeremy Andrus | Decoder (2022)
Big Green Egg CEO Dan Gertsacov on growing kamado cooking | Decoder (2024)
How SharkNinja took over the home | Decoder (2025)
Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Eileen Felix. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Rewind: CEO Jim Farley on Ford's EV gamble
Hey everyone, Nilay here. You might remember I took a break from Decoder last year — we had a baby, so I took some leave. In my place, we had an excellent slate of guest hosts, and we’ve been working hard to bring you those episodes in full video since we launched our official Decoder YouTube channel.
So today, we’re featuring a really great interview conducted by my very good friend Joanna Stern, now the founder and CEO of New Things, and Ford CEO Jim Farley. Joanna pulled some exclusive news out of Jim at the time, including some telling quotes on Trump’s tariff policy, on Ford competing with Chinese EVs, and the company's stance on Apple CarPlay.
Read the full interview transcript on The Verge.
Links:
Ford CEO Jim Farley on China, tariffs, and the quest for a $30,000 EV | Decoder
Joanna Stern is not a robot, but she lived with them | Decoder
Ford's Jim Farley: 'I totally would’ve done it differently.’ | The Verge
Ford pulls the plug on the all-electric F-150 Lightning pickup truck | NPR
Inside the lab where Ford is trying to crack the code on cheap EVs | The Verge
Ford is fighting against physics to build affordable EVs | The Verge
Ford reveals breakthrough process for lower priced EVs | The Verge
Ford CEO Jim Farley on building the electric F-150 | Decoder (2021)
Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
The show is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. The video version of this episode was edited by Kabir Chopra. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Can Patreon fight fire with social media fire?
A lot has changed on the internet, in the creator landscape, and at Patreon itself since CEO Jack Conte was last on the show in 2021. AI and platform shifts have stolen creator content and decimated artists' reach and revenue streams, and Patreon has made some pretty existential changes to the way it works in response.
Links:
My thoughts on AI | Patreon
I tried to prove I’m not AI | Howtown
Patreon: Apple’s 30% tax is the price of staying in the App Store | The Verge
Welcome to hell, Elon (2022) | The Verge
Reality is losing the deepfake war | Decoder
Elon Musk is steamrolling Wall Street to become a trillionaire | Decoder
Incorruptible | Simon & Schuster
Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Xander Adams. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Who decides when AI is too dangerous?
My guest today is Hayden Field, senior AI reporter for The Verge. Often when Hayden comes on the show, it’s because something has gone wrong in the world of AI. Last weekend, that something was a pretty intense mix of Anthropic, the Trump administration, and Anthropic’s new AI model, Fable 5.
Hayden actually just published a fantastic play-by-play on The Verge about how the Fable ban went down, and the scramble through the weekend from both sides to figure out what exactly happened and how it might get resolved. So I wanted her to come on and just walk me through the timeline and what it all means.
Links:
Inside the fight over Claude Mythos 5 | The Verge
Anthropic cuts off Fable 5 and Mythos 5 access following government order | The Verge
Anthropic got hit by export rules nobody understands | The Verge
Anthropic’s safety superpower | Stratechery
"They screwed us": Personality clashes sent Anthropic's models offline | Axios
Anthropic’s call for AI nonproliferation | New York Times
Trump signs exec order to review AI models before release | The Verge
New Anthropic model finds security problems ‘in every major OS, browser’ | The Verge
Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Skydio CEO argues more drones will make us safer
Today, I’m talking with Slydio CEO Adam Bry, who runs the leading US maker of autonomous drones. We covered a lot in this conversation, including Skydio’s police and government work at a time when military use of AI is more controversial than ever and competing with Chinese drones against the backdrop of the Trump’s administration’s DJI ban.
There’s a lot in this one – maybe more than anything, it was refreshing to hear Adam talk about using AI to bring even more people to work at Skydio as the company expands. I also got to fly a drone, which ruled.
Links:
Sorry kid, drones are for war now | The Verge
The FCC’s foreign drone ban is here | The Verge
Skydio is pivoting to enterprise — its consumer drones are dead | The Verge
Skydio commits $3.5B to expand US manufacturing | Skydio
A US drone maker tries to take back the country’s skies | Bloomberg
DEA looks to add Skydio, Parrot drones to its arsenal | FedScoop
The future of border security isn’t at the border at all | The Verge
Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Condé Nast CEO Roger Lynch on AI, the Met Gala & his secret succession plan
Hey! Nilay here. It’s conference season, so I’m traveling across the country and around the world a lot more than usual. Stay tuned for some very special Decoder episodes we have coming up soon, starting on Monday.
In the meantime, I wanted to share a conversation between my friend Peter Kafka and Condé Nast CEO Roger Lynch on the excellent Channels podcast. Lynch says he’s told his teams to assume that traffic will be zero from now on — that’s what I’ve been calling Google Zero. Roger also shares his thoughts on AI, the growing influence of the creator economy, and more.
Links:
Channels with Peter Kafka | Apple Podcasts
Condé Nast CEO: Plan As If Search Traffic Will Be Zero | Search Engine Journal
Sundar Pichai on AI, the future of search, and what’s happening to the web | Decoder
Google Zero is here — now what? | Decoder
Google admits the open web is in ‘rapid decline’ | The Verge
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Microsoft AI chief thinks superintelligence is near, but won't take your job
Today I’m talking with Mustafa Suleyman, the CEO of Microsoft AI. This is a real burner of an episode. We covered everything from his approach to training new models to his criticisms of Anthropic talking about Claude as though it is conscious.
Of course, we also talked about Microsoft’s relationship with OpenAI, how Mustafa is thinking about all the negative polling and political pushback around AI right now, and whether any of the consumer products are good enough to overcome it. Like I said, it’s a burner.
Read the full interview transcript on The Verge.
Links:
Microsoft and OpenAI broke up — now they’re ready to fight | The Verge
Microsoft Build 2026: The 7 biggest announcements | The Verge
Microsoft’s first advanced reasoning AI is here | The Verge
Microsoft’s new ‘superintelligence’ game plan is all about business | The Verge
Here’s how the new Microsoft and OpenAI deal breaks down | The Verge
Microsoft AI chief says 18 months until white-collar tasks automated by AI | FT
Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Elon Musk is steamrolling Wall Street to become a trillionaire
My guest today is Ryan Mac, a technology reporter at The New York Times and co-author of the excellent book Character Limit: How Elon Musk Destroyed Twitter, which came out in 2024. I wanted to have Ryan on today because we’re on the cusp of the SpaceX IPO, which promises to be one of the most consequential public offerings in history for a variety of reasons.
Its biggest-ever size, of course, at nearly $2 trillion dollars. But also because all kinds of rules that keep our markets fair are being bent, if not outright broken, along the way. And, also because buried somewhere inside SpaceX is X, the social platform formerly known as Twitter, which Musk purchased in 2022.
Read the full interview transcript on The Verge.
Links:
Welcome to hell, Elon | The Verge
The SpaceX IPO is great for Elon Musk and terrible for you | The Verge
In SpaceX’s IPO, Elon Musk is the risk factor | The Verge
For Wall Street, the only thing worse than SpaceX flopping is missing out | NYT
How SpaceX Is structured to favor Elon Musk | NYT
As the SpaceX hype machine steamrolls ahead, Wall Street jumps aboard | NYT
The SpaceX IPO Reveals What Really Happened to Twitter | NY Mag
Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
AI is blowing up music. How should the Grammys handle it?
I last talked to Recording Academy CEO Harvey Mason Jr in 2024 — when it was obvious that generative AI would upend the music industry, but not exactly clear how that would happen.
Now, Harvey says AI is “omnipresent” in music production. So what kinds of tools are musicians using, in what way, and what kind of music is it making for us? Is it any good? And how do we identify, and take care of, actual human musicians in this mess?
Read the full interview transcript on The Verge.
Links:
Why the Grammys need to change, with CEO Harvey Mason Jr | Decoder
Is ‘blue dot fever’ a real problem for the concert industry? | Los Angeles Times
USA v. LiveNation-Ticketmaster: All the news | The Verge
The future of country music is here, and it’s AI | The Verge
Poll: AI is transforming how we think about music | Hollywood Reporter
Inside the ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ era of AI in music | Rolling Stone
Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Rivian's software chief thinks you don't need CarPlay or buttons
Today, I’m talking with Wassym Bensaid, the chief software officer at Rivian, and the co-ceo of Rivian’s platform joint venture with Volkswagen. That joint venture, called RV Tech, is about a year and a half old, so I wanted to ask Wassym how it all works and Rivian’s ongoing relationship with Volkswagen.
Because it’s Rivian, I also had to ask Wassym about CarPlay. But the company also just launched an AI-powered voice assistant, which I got to try early. So I had a lot of fun digging into that with Wassym, too. This is a fun one – really in the weeds of a lot of my favorite things to talk about.
Links:
Rivian’s AI-powered voice assistant is ready to roll | The Verge
The R2 is nearly here — can Rivian stick the landing? | The Verge
Rivian’s AI pivot is about more than chasing Tesla | The Verge
Rivian / VW will start testing their first EVs next year | The Verge
Rivian CEO: ‘We’re really convicted’ about skipping CarPlay | Decoder (2025)
Rivian CEO RJ Scaringe says too many carmakers are copying Tesla | Decoder (2024)
Rivian CEO RJ Scaringe isn't scared of the Cybertruck | Decoder (2023)
Rivian’s chief software officer says in-car buttons are ‘an anomaly’ | TechCrunch
Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt,. This episode was edited by Xander Adams. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
How Sundar Pichai is rethinking Google for the AI era
Connecting with Google CEO Sundar Pichai at I/O every year is one of my favorite Decoder traditions. This was our fifth year doing it, and there’s always a whole slew of new things to talk about.
This year, in addition to the news, we talked about Google Zero; picking fights with YouTube creators and publishers; and what being at “the foothills of the singularity" even means.
Read the full interview transcript on The Verge.
Links:
If Google can’t make AI agents useful, maybe no one can | The Verge
The future of Google is a search box that does everything | The Verge
Large language mistake | The Verge
You can now remix other people’s YouTube Shorts with AI | The Verge
Condé Nast calls Google Zero | The Verge
Demis Hassabis said this may be the ‘foothills of the singularity’ | The Verge
Google I/O 2026: All the news and announcements | The Verge
Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Kabir Chopra. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Musk v Altman: Much ado about nothing
Musk v Altman was nominally about OpenAI's conversion to a for-profit entity, and how it went about that change. But really, the suit seems mostly to have been about Elon Musk being mad at Sam Altman — or at OpenAI, for being successful without him — and wanting him punished in some way.
Verge reporter Liz Lopatto spent the last month covering the trial, in all its chaos, and joins Decoder to ask: In a courtroom full of untrustworthy, unreliable people all fighting with each other, did anyone even have a reputation left to lose?
Read the full interview transcript on The Verge.
Links:
Elon Musk loses his case against Sam Altman | The Verge
Musk v. Altman proved AI is led by the wrong people | The Verge
Musk v. Altman accomplished nothing but airing dirty laundry | The Verge
Elon Musk’s worst enemy in court is Elon Musk | The Verge
Behold, the Elon Musk jackass trophy | The Verge
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Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Exclusive: Jonah Peretti explains why he sold BuzzFeed
Just days before we spoke, BuzzFeed co-founder and CEO Jonah Peretti agreed to sell the company, which was losing money and at risk of shutting down. Now there’s a new lease on life — and new leadership. Jonah is taking on a new role as president of BuzzFeed AI, and Byron Allen will become CEO of BuzzFeed.
That’s obviously a huge structural and organizational change, and a really big decision — prime Decoder bait if there ever was any. What are digital media companies doing to adapt and survive in an information landscape dominated by algorithmic social platforms?
Read the full interview transcript on The Verge.
Links:
Byron Allen is buying BuzzFeed and becoming CEO | Variety
BuzzFeed issues going concern warning, lacks liquidity | Wall Street Journal
BuzzFeed News is shutting down | The Verge
BuzzFeed sells Hot Ones studio in $82.5M deal | NBC News
The unbearable lightness of BuzzFeed | The Verge
I hate myself because I don’t work for BuzzFeed (2015) | The Awl
Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt; this episode was edited by Kabir Chopra. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
How companies weaponize the terms of service against you
Brendan Ballou is founder of the Public Integrity Project and author of the new book, When Companies Run the Courts, about the rise of forced arbitration.
Forced arbitration is similarly everywhere in modern life, and there have been some very high-profile cases these past few years highlighting how deeply unfair these clauses are to consumers. Brendan’s book delves into how and why we got here — spoiler: we can blame Antonin Scalia for some of it — but also, most importantly, how we may be able to fight back in the future.
Read the full interview transcript on The Verge.
Links:
When Companies Run the Courts | Hachette
Private equity bought out your doctor and bankrupted Toys ‘R Us | Decoder
Press freedom groups demand access to Paramount records | The Wrap
Disney gives up on trying to use Disney+ to settle wrongful death suit | The Verge
Samsung, corruption, and you (2017) | The Verge
The surprising case for AI judges | Decoder
Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decode
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Joanna Stern is not a robot, but she lived with them
My guest today is longtime friend of the show Joanna Stern. You all know Joanna: she is the former senior personal technology columnist for The Wall Street Journal, a former Decoder guest host, one of my co-founders at The Verge, and also just one of my very closest friends.
Joanna just left that lofty perch at the Journal to start her own media company called New Things, and she’s starting with her new book about AI called I Am Not a Robot, which is out this week on May 12th. So we had Joanna on to talk about all of that, especially what she learned going all in on automation.
Read the full interview transcript on The Verge.
Links:
I Am Not a Robot | Harper Collins
It’s time. Meet my New Thing | Joanna Stern
Why I left My prestigious job to make YouTube videos | Joanna Stern / YouTube
Signing off from this column after 12 years. Here’s what’s changed in tech | WSJ
I tried the robot that’s coming to live with you. It’s still par human | WSJ
The people do not yearn for automation | Decoder
Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Rewind: How AI is fueling an existential crisis in education
Hey, everyone, Nilay here. We’re off today, while the team and I are cooking on a lot of really great stuff in the coming weeks. We’ll be back with an all-new interview on Monday.
In the meantime, we really wanted to highlight this episode we first aired in the fall, because it’s about a huge subject: AI in schools. The school year is starting to wrap up now around the country, and we’re no closer to figuring out how to thread the needle about generative AI in education than we were in September.
Links:
A majority of high school students use gen AI for schoolwork | College Board
About a quarter of teens have used ChatGPT for schoolwork | Pew Research
Your brain on ChatGPT | MIT Media Lab
My students think it’s fine to cheat with AI. Maybe they’re on to something. | Vox
How children understand and learn from conversational AI | McGill University
‘File not Found’ | The Verge
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Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Dara Khosrowshahi on replacing Uber drivers — and himself — with AI
It’s become an annual tradition to have Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi join us in the studio when he comes to New York for Uber’s big Go-Get event every year. This year, the big news was that Uber's expanding into a much larger platform for travel, starting with hotel booking and services like personal shopping.
Uber is going so far as to call this an everything app, so I wanted to see how far Dara thinks everything actually goes — and whether he’s feeling pressure to own more of the user experience in a world where AI companies keep promising that their chatbots will book all the cars for you.
Links:
Uber adds hotels to its app in big travel swing | The Verge
Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi is okay with reinventing the bus | Decoder
I have to be honest, AI will replace jobs at Uber | Diary of a CEO
The DoorDash problem | Decoder
Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky wants to build the everything app | Decoder
Booking and Priceline chief wants you to yell at bots, not humans | Decoder
Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt; this episode was edited by Xander Adams. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
How to win — or lose — Decoder
This is Nick Statt, senior producer on Decoder. We last ran a mailbag episode during the holidays, and we decided it was a good idea to do that kind of thing more often. So we’re back with Nilay as the guest, answering questions and responding to feedback, criticism, and suggestions.
We talk through some recent controversial episodes like our interviews with the CEOs of Superhuman and Puck, and we also discuss how we’re covering AI, thinking about the future of the show, and what it takes to win (and lose) Decoder.
Links:
Nilay answers your burning Decoder questions | Decoder Mailbag (2025)
Answering your biggest Decoder questions | Decoder Mailbag (2024)
Confronting the CEO of the AI company that impersonated me | Decoder
Can Puck reinvent the news business for the influencer age? | Decoder
The people do not yearn for automation | Decoder
Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
That UL safety logo is a lot more complicated than it looks
Jennifer Scanlon is CEO of UL Solutions, one of those hidden-in-plain-sight companies we like to poke at here on Decoder. UL's been around for more than 100 years; it started as a way for insurance companies to standardize fire and safety testing as electricity was the new technology spreading into homes.
But now it's everywhere, and "safety" in tech doesn't just mean the hardware. UL is adapting quickly to the connected, AI-powered era... but do the companies making and distributing tech even care about standards anymore?
Links:
How fake UL certifications led to Chinese ebike suit | Electrek
FCC IoT program loses UL after China probe | Cybersecurity Dive
FCC’s Carr probes IoT program lab over “ties to China” | PC Mag
The US router ban, explained | The Verge
More than 500,000 hoverboards recalled (2016) | The Verge
Brendan Carr is a dummy | The Vergecast
Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Kabir Chopra. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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