$100T is managed by "human duct tape" | E2308
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Today's show:
*There are $100 trillion in global assets sitting on top of what Hanover Park co-founder/CEO Chris Hladczuk calls "human duct tape": armies of accountants in offices patching together work from various legacy tools (QuickBooks, Excel) that are holding funds' own data hostage. Can all of this be replaced with AI? Find out how their startup went from overseeing $1B to $20B in assets in just 15 months.
PLUS, we flash back to March 2020, when Jason and Figma co-founder/CEO Dylan Field broke down the design tool's initial go-to-market strategy, made some WILDLY inaccurate COVID predictions, and considered anxiety about "SaaS burnout" years before the category went full apocalyptic.
Guests:
Chris Hladczuk on X: https://x.com/chrishlad
Hanover Park: https://www.hanoverpark.com/
Dylan Field: https://x.com/zoink
Figma: https://www.figma.com/
Relevant Links:
Turner Novak on X: https://x.com/TurnerNovak
Banana Capital: https://www.bananacapital.vc/
Emergence Capital: https://www.emcap.com/
Lux Capital: https://www.luxcapital.com/
Susa Ventures: https://susaventures.com/
Bill.com: https://www.bill.com/
METR: https://metr.org/
Granola AI note taker: https://www.granola.ai/
Vanta: https://www.vanta.com/
Foo Camp on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/foocamp
TechCrunch Mahalo coverage: https://techcrunch.com/2014/01/27/inside-mobile-news-launch/
Timestamps:
0:00 Hanover Park & the fund admin problem
3:32 Why funds outsource instead of building
5:44 Why fund accounting is so complex
10:38 The "one-click migration" goal
10:48 Northwest Registered Agent - Get more when you start your business with Northwest. In 10 clicks and 10 minutes, you can form your company and walk away with a real business identity — Learn more at https://northwestregisteredagent.com/twist
13:51 Context vs. intelligence gaps
16:11 No PMs, No Designers
20:46 Vanta - Get $1000 off your SOC 2 at https://www.vanta.com/twist
23:18 This is a $100T opportunity
25:36 Flashback w/ Dylan Field of Figma
29:15 Sentry - Your team should be focused on shipping features — not chasing down bugs. New users can get $240 in free credits when they go to https://sentry.io/twist and use the code TWIST
31:22 Pre-AI enterprise security worries
36:30 SaaS overload and SaaS burnout
37:30 The evolution of Figma pricing
42:38 The rise and fall of Mahalo dot com
51:38 The work-from-home revolution begins
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‘Hard Fork’ Live Part 2: Dylan Field on Standing Out in the A.I. Era
We’re back with more from our live event at the Yerba Buena Center for the Arts in San Francisco. In this episode, we sit down with Dylan Field, a founder and the chief executive of the design company Figma, for what he describes as a “roller coaster” of a conversation. We cover everything from the company’s “Design Is Dead” campaign to the sudden resignation of the Anthropic executive Mike Krieger from Figma’s board. Then, we close things out with a special musical performance by eight wooden robotic dolls that make up the Teenage Engineering Choir.
One quick correction to note: In our interview with Field, he makes reference to the SpaceX S-1 filing and misstates what the company says their addressable market for A.I. enterprise applications is. Field says “$22.9 trillion,” but the correct number from the SpaceX filing is $22.7 trillion. The decimal point makes it look small, but it’s a difference of $200 billion.
We’ll be back on Friday with our final installment of “Hard Fork” Live.
Guests:
Dylan Field, chief executive and co-founder of Figma.
Dan Powell, robot conductor, New York Times music composer and “Hard Fork” theme-song creator.
Teenage Engineering Choir
Additional Reading:
This Start-Up’s $20 Billion Sale Died. It Came Fighting Back.
We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.
Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.
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Figma’s Dylan Field on the Future of Design
Dylan Field is the co-founder and CEO of Figma, a design software company that went public in July 2025. Founded in 2012, Figma transformed how people design, prototype, and build products together. After a $20 billion acquisition attempt by Adobe collapsed in 2022 because of regulators, Dylan helped Figma rebound stronger than ever. Just three years later, Figma listed its shares at nearly $20 billion and its stock price more than tripled on its first trading day.
A few highlights:
Expanding a sleepy market
Merging of designers and product roles
Counter-narrative to polarizing CEOs
If models get better, we have to
Remembering Brat Summer
Resources:
More on Dylan:
https://www.figma.com/
https://X.com/zoink
More on Jack:
https://www.altcap.com/
https://x.com/jaltma
https://linktr.ee/uncappedpod
Email: friends@uncappedpod.com
Stay Updated:
If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to like, subscribe, and share with your friends!
Find a16z on X: https://twitter.com/a16z
Find a16z on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/a16z
Listen to the a16z Podcast on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5bC65RDvs3oxnLyqqvkUYX
Listen to the a16z Podcast on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a16z-podcast/id842818711
Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures.
Stay Updated:
Find a16z on YouTube: YouTube
Find a16z on X
Find a16z on LinkedIn
Listen to the a16z Show on Spotify
Listen to the a16z Show on Apple Podcasts
Follow our host: https://twitter.com/eriktorenberg
Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures.
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First Time Founders: Figma’s Founder on Post-IPO Life & the Road Ahead
Ed Elson speaks with Dylan Field, co-founder and CEO of Figma. They discuss the future of design in the age of AI, how his management style has changed over time, and what it was like to go public.
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Figma’s CEO: Why AI makes design, craft, and quality the new moat for startups | Dylan Field
Dylan Field is co-founder and CEO of Figma, a beloved tool used by every modern product team. Founded in 2012, Figma has expanded from a single design tool to a comprehensive platform including FigJam, Slides, Dev Mode, and, most recently, Figma Make. After a $20 billion acquisition by Adobe fell through due to regulatory pushback, Dylan led the company to a successful IPO in 2025.
What you’ll learn:
• How Dylan kept internal morale up after the Adobe acquisition fell through
• His approach to maintaining pace and a sense of urgency 13 years in
• How to systematically develop taste
• How Figma decides which product lines to add
• Why Dylan obsesses over “time to value”
• How AI is making design more valuable
—
Brought to you by:
Stripe—Helping companies of all sizes grow revenue
—
Transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/why-ai-makes-design-craft-and-quality-the-new-moat
—
My biggest takeaways (for paid newsletter subscribers): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/i/175569466/my-biggest-takeaways-from-this-conversation
—
Where to find Dylan Field:
• X: https://x.com/zoink
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dylanfield/
—
Where to find Lenny:
• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com
• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/
—
In this episode, we cover:
(00:00) Introduction to Dylan Field
(03:58) The Adobe deal fallout
(05:50) Maintaining team morale post-deal
(09:13) Strategies for sustaining high performance
(13:37) Maintaining Figma’s unique company culture
(16:22) Dylan’s leadership evolution
(21:03) How to improve clarity as a leader
(24:40) The controversy behind FigJam
(31:06) Lessons from expanding Figma’s core product line
(39:32) Time-to-value
(45:14) Introduction to Figma Make
(48:26) AI app prototyping and the future of Figma Make
(53:38) Lessons from Figma’s AI product launch
(57:47) The importance of craft
(59:54) Developing good taste
(01:05:35) The future of product development
(01:10:32) Why AI won’t steal your job
(01:14:37) AI corner
(01:18:32) Lightning round and final thoughts
—
Referenced:
• Dylan Field live at Config: Intuition, simplicity, and the future of design: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/dylan-field-live-at-config
• Figma: https://www.figma.com/
• Adobe: https://www.adobe.com/
• Vision, conviction, and hype: How to build 0 to 1 inside a company | Mihika Kapoor (Product at Figma): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/vision-conviction-hype-mihika-kapoor
• Notion’s lost years, its near collapse during Covid, staying small to move fast, the joy and suffering of building horizontal, more | Ivan Zhao (CEO and co-founder): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-notion-ivan-zhao
• $46B of hard truths from Ben Horowitz: Why founders fail and why you need to run toward fear (a16z co-founder): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/46b-of-hard-truths-from-ben-horowitz
• FigJam: https://www.figma.com/figjam/
• Cursor chat: https://help.figma.com/hc/en-us/articles/4403130802199-Use-cursor-chat-in-Figma-Design
• Figma Slides: https://www.figma.com/slides/
• Figma Sites: https://www.figma.com/sites/
• Figma Buzz: https://www.figma.com/buzz/
• Figma Draw: https://www.figma.com/draw/
• Figma Design: https://www.figma.com/design/
• Dev Mode: https://www.figma.com/dev-mode/
• Figma Make: https://www.figma.com/make/
• Zach Lloyd on X: https://x.com/zachlloydtweets
• Warp: https://www.warp.dev/
• Dylan’s post on X about Figma on an AI product leaderboard: https://x.com/zoink/status/1968588014935801884
• Kurt Cobain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Cobain
• Damien Correll on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/damiencorrell/
• Marcin Wichary on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mwichary/
• Loredana Crisan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/loredanacrisan/
• Amber Bravo on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amberbravo/
• Figma’s 2025 AI report: Perspectives from designers and developers: https://www.figma.com/blog/figma-2025-ai-report-perspectives/
• Jevons paradox: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox#Energy_conservation_policy
• AI prompt engineering in 2025: What works and what doesn’t | Sander Schulhoff (Learn Prompting, HackAPrompt): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/ai-prompt-engineering-in-2025-sander-schulhoff
• Pantheon: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11680642/
• Retro: https://retro.app/
• Thiel Fellowship: https://thielfellowship.org/
—
Recommended books:
• Understanding Comics: The Invisible Art: https://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Comics-Invisible-Scott-McCloud/dp/006097625X
• The Spy and the Traitor: The Greatest Espionage Story of the Cold War: https://www.amazon.com/Spy-Traitor-Greatest-Espionage-Story/dp/1101904216
• Codex Seraphinianus: https://www.amazon.com/Codex-Seraphinianus-Anniversary-Luigi-Serafini/dp/0847871045
Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.
—
Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.
My biggest takeaways from this conversation:
To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com
Taste is your Moat (Dylan Field of Figma)
Dylan Field (CEO Figma) on how they are letting designers build with Figma Make, how Figma can be the context repository for aesthetic in the age of vibe coding, and why design is your only differentiator now.
Full show notes: https://www.latent.space/p/figma
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.latent.space/subscribe
Design dominance sparks a blockbuster IPO, with Figma’s Dylan Field
Figma burst into the public eye in 2022 after Adobe was blocked from buying the design startup for $20 billion. This chapter set the stage for an even bigger milestone at Figma: a splashy IPO this summer at nearly double that valuation. Dylan Field, Figma’s co-founder and CEO, joins Rapid Response to share what distinguishes Figma from competitors, and why design is increasingly at the center of every industry in today’s software-driven economy. Field also reflects on the pressures and opportunities of leading as a next-generation, tech-native CEO, and offers practical advice on upskilling in an AI-powered world.
Visit the Rapid Response website here: https://www.rapidresponseshow.com/
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Figma: Dylan Field
The dashboard in your car – the interface on your Zoom screen … many of the products we interact with every day were created with the collaborative software Figma. Figma is a kind of Google Docs for design, created by Dylan Field and Evan Wallace after they won a Thiel fellowship in 2012. Dylan was just 20 when he became CEO. The only other job he’d had before that….? was college intern. He eventually figured out how to manage his team, and grew the company enough to attract a 20 billion dollar acquisition bid from Adobe. The deal fell through, but Figma continued to grow, and recently filed for an IPO.
This episode was researched and produced by Kerry Thompson with music composed by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by Neva Grant. Our engineers were Patrick Murray and Jimmy Keeley.
You can follow HIBT on X & Instagram, and email us at hibt@id.wondery.com. Sign up for Guy’s free newsletter at guyraz.com or on Substack.
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Dylan Field - Designing The Future - [Invest Like the Best, EP.407]
My guest today is Dylan Field. Dylan is the co-founder and CEO of Figma and last joined me on Invest Like the Best in 2020. A lot has changed since then and we explore the evolving landscape of design and how Figma has been navigating AI while staying true to its founding vision of eliminating the gap between imagination and reality. Despite Figma's incredible success in becoming the default design platform, Dylan remains deeply motivated by helping users achieve their goals. He shares fascinating insights about the underhyped aspects of AI reasoning capabilities, the future of design literacy, and why he believes truly great design will always require human craft and creativity. Please enjoy my discussion with Dylan Field.
For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page here.
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This episode is brought to you by Ramp. Ramp’s mission is to help companies manage their spend in a way that reduces expenses and frees up time for teams to work on more valuable projects. Ramp is the fastest-growing FinTech company in history, and it’s backed by more of my favorite past guests (at least 16 of them!) than probably any other company I’m aware of. Go to Ramp.com/invest to sign up for free and get a $250 welcome bonus.
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Invest Like the Best is a property of Colossus, LLC. For more episodes of Invest Like the Best, visit joincolossus.com/episodes.
Follow us on Twitter: @patrick_oshag | @JoinColossus
Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant (https://thepodcastconsultant.com).
Show Notes:
(00:00:00) Learn about Ramp, AlphaSense, and Ridgeline
(00:07:11) Current State of Technology and Optimism
(00:09:21) Entrepreneurial Mindset and Long-term Thinking
(00:10:23) Challenges of Building in Stealth Mode
(00:12:44) AI and the Future of Design
(00:14:07) Navigating AI Opportunities and Risks
(00:17:05) Design Principles and User Experience
(00:29:55) Future of Interfaces and Interaction
(00:31:45) Dark Patterns and Ethical Concerns
(00:33:42) Personal Motivations and Company Vision
(00:40:04) Balancing Responsibilities as a CEO
(00:41:54) The Future of Design and AI Integration
(00:44:48) Speculating on AI's Impact on Design
(00:46:26) Encouragement to Experiment and Innovate
The Best of 2024 (so far) with Sarah Guo and Elad Gil
Believe or not, we’re almost halfway through 2024. Sarah and Elad have spent the first of this year talking with some of the most innovative minds in the AI industry, so we’re taking a look at some of our favorite No Priors conversations so far featuring Dylan Field (Figma); Emily Glassberg-Sands (Stripe); Brett Adcock (Figure AI); Aditya Ramesh, Tim Brooks and Bill Peebles (OpenAI’s Sora Team); Scott Wu (Cognition); and Alexandr Wang (Scale).
Watch or listen to the full episodes here:
Build AI products at on-AI companies with Emily Glassberg Sands from Stripe
Designing the Future: Dylan Field on AI, Collaboration, and Independence
The argument for humanoid robots with Brett Adcock from Figure
OpenAI’s Sora team thinks we’ve only seen the "GPT-1 of video models"
Cognition’s Scott Wu on how Devin, the AI software engineer, will work for you
The Data Foundry for AI with Alexandr Wang from Scale
Sign up for new podcasts every week. Email feedback to show@no-priors.com
Follow us on Twitter: @NoPriorsPod | @Saranormous | @EladGil
Show Notes:
(0:00) Introduction
(0:46) Emily Glassberg Sands on the Future of AI and Fintech
(4:23 Dylan Field on AI and Human Creative Potential
(9:03) Brett Adcock on Running Figure AI’s Hardware and Software Processes
(12:43) OpenAI’s Sora Team on Artists’ Creative Experiences with their Model
(17:43) Scott Wu Gives Advice for Human Engineers Co-Working with AI
(21:06) Alexandr Wang on How Quality Data Builds Confidence in AI Systems
Dylan Field live at Config: Intuition, simplicity, and the future of design
Dylan Field is the co-founder and CEO of Figma, the collaborative design platform that has revolutionized how product teams work. In my first-ever live podcast, recorded at Figma Config, Dylan and I dig into:
• How intuition and product taste drive Dylan’s decision-making
• The challenge of keeping things simple
• Dylan’s thoughts on the future of product management
• Lessons from Figma’s early days
• How Figma built their initial user base
• Dylan’s journey from intern to CEO of a 1,000+-person company
• The future of design tools and AI
—
Brought to you by:
• WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs
• Anvil—The fastest way to build software for documents
• User Testing—Human understanding. Human experiences.
—
Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/dylan-field-live-at-config
—
Where to find Dylan Field:
• X: https://x.com/zoink?lang=en
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dylanfield/
—
Where to find Lenny:
• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com
• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/
—
In this episode, we cover:
(00:00) Introduction
(01:11) Welcoming Dylan Field
(02:36) Highlights and surprises from Config
(06:58) The philosophy of design
(08:01) Raccoon feet and muffin hands
(09:57) Building and refining intuition and product taste
(12:50) How to influence leadership
(16:14) The role of product managers
(21:12) The future of product management
(22:20) The importance of simplicity in design
(26:10) The long road to Figma’s launch
(27:44) Advice for aspiring entrepreneurs
(29:07) Knowing when it’s time to ship
(30:39) Early user acquisition strategies
(35:50) Spotting trends and future innovations
(39:20) Reflections on leadership and growth
(43:16) Lightning round
—
Referenced:
• Mihika Kapoor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mihikakapoor/
• Rick Rubin on the Creative Act—60 Minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE1teB5bN-w
• Figma pages: https://help.figma.com/hc/en-us/articles/360038511293-Create-and-manage-pages
• Leading through uncertainty: A design-led company—Brian Chesky (Config 2023): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dkfijg7s76o
• An inside look at how Figma builds product | Yuhki Yamashita (CPO of Figma): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/an-inside-look-at-how-figma-builds
• Vision, conviction, and hype: How to build 0 to 1 inside a company | Mihika Kapoor (Product at Figma): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/vision-conviction-hype-mihika-kapoor
• An inside look at Figma’s unique GTM motion | Claire Butler (first GTM hire): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/an-inside-look-at-figmas-unique-bottom
• Zigging vs. zagging: How HubSpot built a $30B company | Dharmesh Shah (co-founder/CTO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/lessons-from-30-years-of-building
• Nadia Singer on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nadiasinger/
• Sho Kuwamoto on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shokuwamoto/
• FigJam: https://www.figma.com/figjam/
• Tim Van Damme on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-van-damme-maxvoltar/
• Coda: https://coda.io/
• Shishir Mehrotra on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shishirmehrotra/
• Websim: https://websim.ai/
• eToys.com commercial (from Dylan’s childhood acting career): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3Y92aCmmbU
—
Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.
—
Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe
Figma CEO Dylan Field is optimistic about the future and AI
We’ve got a fun one today — I talked to Figma CEO Dylan Field in front of a live audience at South by Southwest in Austin, Texas. And we got into it – we talked about everything from design, to software distribution, to the future of the web, and, of course, AI.
Figma is an fascinating company – the Figma design tool is used by designers at basically every company you can think of. And importantly, it runs on the web. It became such a big deal that Adobe tried to buy it out in 2022 for $20 billion dollars, a deal that only just recently fell through because of regulatory concerns.
So Dylan and I talked a lot about where Figma is now as an independent company, how Figma is structured, where it’s going, and how Dylan’s decisionmaking has changed since the last time he was on the show in 2022.
Links:
Why Figma is selling to Adobe for $20 billion, with CEO Dylan Field — Decoder
Adobe abandons $20 billion acquisition of Figma — The Verge
Adobe’s Dana Rao on AI, copyright, and the failed Figma deal — Decoder
Figma’s CEO on life after the company’s failed sale to Adobe — Command Line
Amazon restricts self-publishing due to AI concerns — The Guardian
Wix’s new AI chatbot builds websites in seconds based on prompts — The Verge
Apple is finally allowing full versions of Chrome and Firefox on the iPhone — The Verge
What Is Solarpunk? A Guide to the Environmental Art Movement. — Built In
Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23866201
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Designing the Future: Dylan Field on AI, Collaboration, and Independence
Figma has had a banner year and the formidable team isn’t slowing down—even after regulatory issues blocked the merger with Adobe. Today on No Priors, Sarah and Elad are joined by Dylan Field the CEO and founder of Figma, the design collaboration tool that is closing the gap between imagination and reality. They discuss what’s next for an independent Figma, how AI can augment design and speed up the iteration loop, and how Figma is expanding beyond design with products that help the entire product team’s workflow.
Show Links:
https://www.figma.com/
Figma and Adobe are abandoning our proposed merger
Sign up for new podcasts every week. Email feedback to show@no-priors.com
Follow us on Twitter: @NoPriorsPod | @Saranormous | @EladGil | @zoink
Show Notes:
(0:00) Introduction
(2:01) No more Adobe acquisition
(4:20) What’s next for Figma
(7:16) FigJam, digital collaboration, and expanding beyond design
(10:50) Figma DevMode
(13:06) Incorporating AI at Figma
(15:03) How AI will change design
(19:19) Creativity augmentation and the iterative loop
(22:44) Automating repetitive design tasks
(25:35) The future of AI UI
(29:44) Investing philosophy
(31:28) Leadership evolution
Why Figma is selling to Adobe for $20 billion, with CEO Dylan Field
Dylan Field is the co-founder and CEO of Figma, which makes a very popular design tool that allows designers and their collaborators to all work together right in a web browser. You know how multiple people can edit together in Google Docs? Figma is that for design work. We just redesigned The Verge; we used Figma extensively throughout that process.
So for years, people have been waiting on the inevitable Figma vs. Adobe standoff since Figma was such a clear upstart competitor to Photoshop and Illustrator and the rest. Well, buckle up because in September, Adobe announced that it was buying Figma for $20 billion. Figma is going to remain independent inside Adobe, but you know, it’s a little weird.
So I wanted to talk to Dylan about the deal, why he’s doing it, how he made the decision to sell, and what things he can do as part of Adobe that he couldn’t do as an independent company.
Dylan’s also a pretty expansive thinker, so after we talked about his company getting the “fuck you” money from Adobe, we talked about making VR Figma for the metaverse and AGI, which is artificial general intelligence, or the kind of AI that can fully think for itself. This episode takes a turn. I think you’re going to like it.
Okay, Dylan Field, CEO of Figma. Here we go.
Links:
Welcome to the new Verge
Adobe to acquire Figma in a deal worth $20 billion
A New Collaboration with Adobe
Designers worry Adobe won't let Figma flourish
WebGL - Wikipedia
How big companies kill ideas — and how to fight back, with Tony Fadell - Decoder
Dylan Field on Twitter: "Our goal is to be Figma not Adobe"
College Dropout Turns Thiel Fellowship Into a $2 Billion Figma Fortune
Generative adversarial network (GAN) - Wikipedia
GPT-3 - Wikipedia
Is VR the next frontier in fitness? - Decoder
Artificial general intelligence - Wikipedia
Transcript:
https://www.theverge.com/e/23209862
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Jackson Bierfeldt.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Dylan Field - The Growing Importance of Design – [Founder’s Field Guide, EP.14]
Dylan Field is the co-founder and CEO of Figma, a collaborative, online design tool which has taken the world by storm. With a most recent valuation of more than $2B and bakers like Andreessen Horowitz, Sequoia, Kleiner Perkins, and Greylock, Figma has been one of the most successful companies building tools for creators. In our conversation, we dive into the principles Figma is built on, how they created multi-player for design tools, and the growing importance of design in business. I hope you enjoy this conversation with Dylan Field.
For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content check out https://www.joincolossus.com/episodes/375923/field-the-growing-importance-of-design
DocSend is a document sharing platform that enables companies to share business-critical documents with ease and get real-time actionable analytics. With DocSend’s security and control, startup founders, investors, business development executives, and financial professionals can drive business outcomes that have a lasting impact. Start for free at www.docsend.com.
Founder's Field Guide is a property of Colossus Inc. For more episodes of Founder's Field Guide go to https://www.joincolossus.com/episodes.
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Show Notes
[00:2:04] – [First question] – His decision to and application for the Thiel Fellowship
[00:3:23] – What makes his co-founder Evan so good
[00:4:15] – The Thiel Fellowship interview process
[00:5:26] – Creating better opportunities for open ended learning in education
[00:6:12] – Why Software Is Eating The World
[00:7:48] – Importance and types of independent thought as they built Figma
[00:10:00] – Early stages of forming Figma
[00:12:03] – The market of designers and what Figma does
[00:15:57] – His principles of good design
[00:17:36] – Bret Victor - Inventing on Principle [Youtube]
[00:17:49] - Up and Down the Ladder of Abstraction
[00:18:12] – Future of design tools
[00:19:45] – Design as a multiplayer concept and surprises that have come from it
[00:21:40] – Threshold to know when product-market fit occurred
[00:24:11] – Lessons for pricing something effectively
[00:25:48] – Biggest challenge growing the business for him
[00:26:58] – What he’s learned as a manager since starting Figma
[00:28:38] – Lessons in effective recruiting
[00:31:49] – Payoff of hiring the right partner
[00:33:01] – The chapters/stages of Figma
[00:34:38] – What has led to success in terms of the distribution of Figma
[00:35:56] – Hardest thing to copy about Figma
[00:36:47] – Dealing with customer support and unhappy users
[00:38:08] – Their Communities platform and why it’s important for the business
[00:39:02] – Learning about and from their competitors
[00:41:50] – The landscape of software design tools
[00:43:43] – Interesting creator tools
[00:44:31] – What would be the key levers that lead to explosive growth for Figma
[00:45:57] – Global trends he is most curious in
[00:47:21] – Creating a more private digital world
[00:49:33] – Thoughts or advice for people building something new
[00:50:57] – Kindest thing anyone has done for him
20VC: Figma Founder, Dylan Field on How Leadership Needs To Evolve with Scale, The Transition from Application to Platform & The Future of Remote Work, Education and Digital Spaces
Dylan Field is the Founder & CEO @ Figma, the company that helps teams create, test, and ship better designs from start to finish and is one of 2020's fastest-growing companies. To date, Dylan has raised over $132M with Figma from some of the best including Sequoia, a16z, Index, Greylock, Founders Fund and Kleiner Perkins. Figma's latest round valued them at a reported $2Bn. Prior to founding Figma, Dylan enjoyed internships at Flipboard, LinkedIn and O'Reilly Media.
In Today's Episode You Will Learn:
1.) How Dylan made his way from an internship at O'Reilly Media and a Thiel Fellowship to founding Figma, one of the fastest-growing unicorns?
2.) How does Dylan feel about the future of education? What core questions do students need to ask before entering? How does Dylan assess the impact of the Thiel Fellowship today? Why does Dylan believe that everyone should be an intern? What did he take from that experience?
3.) How would Dylan describe his leadership style today? How has it changed over time? How did he get past micro-managing in the early days and learn to delegate? How does Dylan think about insecurity and vulnerability as a young leader today?
4.) What does Dylan foresee as the biggest challenges in Figma's transition from application to platform? How does Dylan evaluate the success of the Figma plugin ecosystem? How does Dylan think about the right cadence to roll out new products? How does Dylan think about catering to power users vs catering to the standard everyday user?
5.) What have been the most significant impacts of COVID for Figma? Why did Dylan choose to adopt a hybrid model for Figma in terms of working styles moving forward? What have been Dylan's biggest lessons of what it takes to attract the very best talent? What works? What does not?
Item's Mentioned In Today's Episode
Dylan's Favourite Book: Snow Crash
As always you can follow Harry and The Twenty Minute VC on Twitter here!
Likewise, you can follow Harry on Instagram here for mojito madness and all things 20VC.
E1040: Figma CEO & Co-Founder Dylan Field shares insights on crucial moments in Figma’s creation, overcoming SaaS burnout, active vs. passive user-pricing, getting Greylock & Sequoia to invest after they initially passed & more!
1:00 Jason intros Figma’s Dylan Field & Dylan explains why WebGL was crucial to Figma’s creation
7:09 Why ChromeOS is flourishing in schools
11:28 Who are Figma’s competitors & how do they compare
14:12 How does multiplayer mode work on Figma?
17:29 What does Figma charge, Dylan’s thoughts on charging for SaaS: bottom-up or top-down?
30:26 Is SaaS burnout real? Active-user pricing vs. Passive-user pricing & the importance of increasing pricing transparency
34:41 Becoming a Thiel Fellow, meeting Jason at Foo Camp, what happened between Mahalo & Google?
44:52 Jason goes deeper on what happened at Mahalo
46:33 Why Figma releases new features so quickly, the open-design theory & how it makes Figma anti-fragile
48:42 How is Figma handling COVID-19 on an internal & external basis
1:02:39 Figma’s funding history, why Index led the Seed, why Greylock initially passed & wound up investing
1:08:13 Why Kleiner Perkins invested & why Sequoia passed on the Series B & wound up investing, importance of getting to know your lead investors
1:11:05 How Dylan preps for & leads Figma’s board meetings
1:12:05 How working from home has given bosses better insights into who is actually making major impacts
20VC: Figma Founder Dylan Field on The Biggest Mistakes Young Founders Most Often Make, How To Go Slow To Go Fast With Venture Dollars & How The Design Process Will Fundamentally Change Over The Next 5-10 Years
Dylan Field is the Founder & CEO @ Figma, the startup that provides a better way to design, prototype and collaborate, all in the browser. To date, Dylan has raised over $82m in funding from some of the world's best investors including Sequoia, Greylock, Kleiner Perkins, Founders Fund, Index Ventures and more. Prior to changing the world of design with Figma, Dylan held roles at Flipboard, Microsoft and LinkedIn and was part of the renowned Thiel Fellowship.
In Today's Episode You Will Learn:
1.) How Dylan made his way from Thiel fellow to changing the world of design and prototyping with Figma?
2.) What is the story behind the 4-year journey to the launch of their first product? How did Dylan maintain morale with such an extended window between creation and launch? What are the core challenges of building tools companies and getting initial traction? How did Dylan satiate VCs desire for fast growth with such a long period to launch? Is it possible to "go slow to go fast" with VC dollars?
3.) Sequoia led Figma's Series C, how did the round come together? What was it that made Dylan choose the lead investors for each of his rounds? How did this round compare to prior rounds led by Index, Kleiner and Greylock? How does Dylan advise founders to build relationships of trust and transparency with their VC in short period of time?
4.) How did Dylan approach the topic of board construction? What did he most want to get out of his board? What have been some of Dylan's biggest learnings when it comes to board management? What has Dylan found the most challenging element?
5.) As a young founder himself, where does Dylan see commonalities in the mistakes that other young founders make today? As a young founder, how has Dylan been able to hire A** talent execs? What have been some of the biggest learnings on team assembly and construction through the process?
Items Mentioned In Today's Show:
Dylan's Fave Book: Stronger, Faster, and More Beautiful
As always you can follow Harry, The Twenty Minute VC and Dylan on Twitter here!
Likewise, you can follow Harry on Instagram here for mojito madness and all things 20VC.
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