20VC: Cognition CEO Scott Wu on Acquiring Windsurf: The Process, The Deal, The Rationale | Did Google Overlook a Goldmine in the Core Asset and Did Founders Leave a Sinking Ship | How Cursor and Cognition Deal with Ever Increasing Reliance on Anthropic
Scott Wu is the co-founder and CEO of Cognition, the company behind Devin, the world's first AI software engineer. On Friday last week they pulled off the acquisition of the year, acquiring Windsurf, following their licensing agreement with Google. Previously a world-class competitive programmer, he was a gold medalist at the International Olympiad in Informatics and a member of the U.S. Math and Physics Olympiad teams. Before Cognition, he was a founding engineer at Scale AI, helping shape the early AI infrastructure stack.
AGENDA:
00:00 – Why are founders walking away instead of going down with the ship?
01:05 – How did Cognition pull off the $220M Windsurf deal in just 72 hours?
04:45 – What really happened behind closed doors the weekend Windsurf was acquired?
07:15 – Did Google overlook a goldmine in the Windsurf team and IP?
09:00 – Who are the 100 people that secretly shape the future of AI?
12:30 – Can application startups ever gain leverage over foundation model giants like Anthropic?
14:15 – Is coding about to be replaced by simply describing what you want?
17:30 – 50% of new code is AI-written. Where does that go next?
20:45 – "We've gone from 0 to $80M ARR in 6 months. Quietly."
25:00 – Are IDEs and agents just the training wheels for the real future of software engineering?
28:20 – If you could only back one—OpenAI or Anthropic—who's the better bet?
30:00 – Why has Cognition kept its insane growth a secret… until now?
Inside Devin: The world’s first autonomous AI engineer that's set to write 50% of its company’s code by end of year | Scott Wu (CEO and co-founder of Cognition)
Scott Wu is the co-founder and CEO of Cognition, the company behind Devin—the world’s first autonomous AI software engineer. Unlike other AI coding tools, Devin works like an autonomous engineer that you can interact with through Slack, Linear, and GitHub, just like with a remote engineer. With Scott’s background in competitive programming and a previous AI-powered startup, Lunchclub, teaching AI to code has become his ultimate passion.What you’ll learn:
1. How a team of “Devins” are already producing 25% of Cognition’s pull requests, and they are on track to hit 50% by year’s end
2. How each engineer on Cognition’s 15-person engineering team works with about five Devins each
3. How Devin has evolved from a “high school CS student” to a “junior engineer” over the past year
4. Why engineering will shift from “bricklayers” to “architects”
5. Why AI tools will lead to more engineering jobs rather than fewer
6. How Devin creates its own wiki to understand and document complex codebases
7. The eight pivots Cognition went through before landing on their current approach
8. The cultural shifts required to successfully adopt AI engineers
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Where to find Scott Wu:
• X: https://x.com/scottwu46
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-wu-8b94ab96/
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Where to find Lenny:
• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com
• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/
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In this episode, we cover:
(00:00) Introduction to Scott Wu and Devin
(09:13) Scaling and future prospects
(10:23) Devin's origin story
(17:26) The idea of Devin as a person
(22:19) How a team of “Devins” are already producing 25% of Cognition’s pull requests
(25:17) Important skills in the AI era
(30:21) How Cognition’s engineering team works with Devin's
(34:37) Live demo
(42:20) Devin’s codebase integration
(44:50) Automation with Linear
(46:53) What Devin does best
(52:56) The future of AI in software engineering
(57:13) Moats and stickiness in AI
(01:01:57) The tech that enables Devin
(01:04:14) AI will be the biggest technology shift of our lives
(01:07:25) Adopting Devin in your company
(01:15:13) Startup wisdom and hiring practices
(01:22:32) Lightning round and final thoughts
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Referenced:
• Devin: https://devin.ai/
• GitHub: https://github.com/
• Linear: https://linear.app/
• Waymo: https://waymo.com/
• GitHub Copilot: https://github.com/features/copilot
• Cursor: https://www.cursor.com/
• Anysphere: https://anysphere.inc/
• Bolt: https://bolt.new/
• StackBlitz: https://stackblitz.com/
• Cognition: https://cognition.ai/
• v0: https://v0.dev/
• Vercel: https://vercel.com/
• Everyone’s an engineer now: Inside v0’s mission to create a hundred million builders | Guillermo Rauch (founder and CEO of Vercel, creators of v0 and Next.js): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/everyones-an-engineer-now-guillermo-rauch
• Inside Bolt: From near-death to ~$40m ARR in 5 months—one of the fastest-growing products in history | Eric Simons (founder and CEO of StackBlitz): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-bolt-eric-simons
• Assembly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assembly_language
• Pascal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal_(programming_language)
• Python: https://www.python.org/
• Jevons paradox: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox
• Datadog: https://www.datadoghq.com/
• Bending the universe in your favor | Claire Vo (LaunchDarkly, Color, Optimizely, ChatPRD): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/bending-the-universe-in-your-favor
• OpenAI’s CPO on how AI changes must-have skills, moats, coding, startup playbooks, more | Kevin Weil (CPO at OpenAI, ex-Instagram, Twitter): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/kevin-weil-open-ai
• Behind the product: Replit | Amjad Masad (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/behind-the-product-replit-amjad-masad
• Windsurf: https://windsurf.com/
• COBOL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COBOL
• Fortran: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortran
• Magic the Gathering: https://magic.wizards.com/en
• Aura frames: https://auraframes.com/
• AirPods: https://www.apple.com/airpods/
• Steven Hao on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/steven-hao-160b9638/
• Walden Yan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/waldenyan/
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Recommended books:
• How to Win Friends & Influence People: https://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/0671027034
• The Power Law: Venture Capital and the Making of the New Future: https://www.amazon.com/Power-Law-Venture-Capital-Making/dp/052555999X
• The Great Gatsby: https://www.amazon.com/Great-Gatsby-F-Scott-Fitzgerald/dp/0743273567
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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.
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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe
Scott Wu - Building Cognition - [Invest Like the Best, EP.402]
My guest today is Scott Wu. Scott is the co-founder and CEO of Cognition, which is an applied AI lab that has created the first AI software engineer, which they call Devin. In just a year since founding Cognition, Devin functions at the level of a junior software engineer, capable of handling complete engineering workflows from bug fixing to submitting pull requests. He is a former competitive programming champion and describes the field as simply “the art of telling the computer what you want it to do." Scott predicts AI will surpass the world's best competitive programmer within 1-2 years and sees this technology not as replacing programmers, but as democratizing software creation. We discuss the bottleneck in software development, the future of AI in various industries, and the challenges of leveling up Devin. Towards the end, you’ll also hear Scott do an insane card trick on me. You can find the video on our X and YouTube to grasp the madness fully. Please enjoy my conversation with Scott Wu.
Watch Scott play the card game.
For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page here.
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Invest Like the Best is a property of Colossus, LLC. For more episodes of Invest Like the Best, visit joincolossus.com/episodes.
Follow us on Twitter: @patrick_oshag | @JoinColossus
Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant (https://thepodcastconsultant.com).
Show Notes:
(00:00:00) Welcome to Invest Like the Best
(00:07:00) Discussion of Devin's current capabilities as a junior engineer
(00:09:00) Early use cases and customer adoption
(00:11:00) Comparison between IDE assistants and Devin's autonomous approach
(00:14:00) History of computer programming and its evolution
(00:17:00) Scott's background in competitive programming
(00:20:00) Future predictions for AI in software engineering
(00:26:00) Explanation of AI agents and their significance
(00:29:00) Technical details of how Devin is built
(00:40:00) Impact on software engineering jobs and industry
(00:47:00) Discussion of business model and pricing
(00:52:00) Thoughts on AGI and its practical implications
(00:59:00) Commentary on the competitive landscape
(01:24:00) Future of AI adoption across industries
(01:25:00) Card trick demonstration
(01:29:00) The Kindest Thing Anyone Has Done For Scott
The Best of 2024 (so far) with Sarah Guo and Elad Gil
Believe or not, we’re almost halfway through 2024. Sarah and Elad have spent the first of this year talking with some of the most innovative minds in the AI industry, so we’re taking a look at some of our favorite No Priors conversations so far featuring Dylan Field (Figma); Emily Glassberg-Sands (Stripe); Brett Adcock (Figure AI); Aditya Ramesh, Tim Brooks and Bill Peebles (OpenAI’s Sora Team); Scott Wu (Cognition); and Alexandr Wang (Scale).
Watch or listen to the full episodes here:
Build AI products at on-AI companies with Emily Glassberg Sands from Stripe
Designing the Future: Dylan Field on AI, Collaboration, and Independence
The argument for humanoid robots with Brett Adcock from Figure
OpenAI’s Sora team thinks we’ve only seen the "GPT-1 of video models"
Cognition’s Scott Wu on how Devin, the AI software engineer, will work for you
The Data Foundry for AI with Alexandr Wang from Scale
Sign up for new podcasts every week. Email feedback to show@no-priors.com
Follow us on Twitter: @NoPriorsPod | @Saranormous | @EladGil
Show Notes:
(0:00) Introduction
(0:46) Emily Glassberg Sands on the Future of AI and Fintech
(4:23 Dylan Field on AI and Human Creative Potential
(9:03) Brett Adcock on Running Figure AI’s Hardware and Software Processes
(12:43) OpenAI’s Sora Team on Artists’ Creative Experiences with their Model
(17:43) Scott Wu Gives Advice for Human Engineers Co-Working with AI
(21:06) Alexandr Wang on How Quality Data Builds Confidence in AI Systems
Cognition’s Scott Wu on how Devin, the AI software engineer, will work for you
Scott Wu loves code. He grew up competing in the International Olympiad in Informatics (IOI) and is a world class coder, and now he's building an AI agent designed to create more, not fewer, human engineers. This week on No Priors, Sarah and Elad talk to Scott, the co-founder and CEO of Cognition, an AI lab focusing on reasoning. Recently, the Cognition team released a demo of Devin, an AI software engineer that can increasingly handle entire tasks end to end.
In this episode, they talk about why the team built Devin with a UI that mimics looking over another engineer’s shoulder as they work and how this transparency makes for a better result. Scott discusses why he thinks Devin will make it possible for there to be more human engineers in the world, and what will be important for software engineers to focus on as these roles evolve. They also get into how Scott thinks about building the Cognition team and that they’re just getting started.
Sign up for new podcasts every week. Email feedback to show@no-priors.com
Follow us on Twitter: @NoPriorsPod | @Saranormous | @EladGil | @ScottWu46
Show Notes:
(0:00) Introduction
(1:12) IOI training and community
(6:39) Cognition’s founding team
(8:20) Meet Devin
(9:17) The discourse around Devin
(12:14) Building Devin’s UI
(14:28) Devin’s strengths and weakness
(18:44) The evolution of coding agents
(22:43) Tips for human engineers
(26:48) Hiring at Cognition
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