$100T is managed by "human duct tape" | E2308
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Today's show:
*There are $100 trillion in global assets sitting on top of what Hanover Park co-founder/CEO Chris Hladczuk calls "human duct tape": armies of accountants in offices patching together work from various legacy tools (QuickBooks, Excel) that are holding funds' own data hostage. Can all of this be replaced with AI? Find out how their startup went from overseeing $1B to $20B in assets in just 15 months.
PLUS, we flash back to March 2020, when Jason and Figma co-founder/CEO Dylan Field broke down the design tool's initial go-to-market strategy, made some WILDLY inaccurate COVID predictions, and considered anxiety about "SaaS burnout" years before the category went full apocalyptic.
Guests:
Chris Hladczuk on X: https://x.com/chrishlad
Hanover Park: https://www.hanoverpark.com/
Dylan Field: https://x.com/zoink
Figma: https://www.figma.com/
Relevant Links:
Turner Novak on X: https://x.com/TurnerNovak
Banana Capital: https://www.bananacapital.vc/
Emergence Capital: https://www.emcap.com/
Lux Capital: https://www.luxcapital.com/
Susa Ventures: https://susaventures.com/
Bill.com: https://www.bill.com/
METR: https://metr.org/
Granola AI note taker: https://www.granola.ai/
Vanta: https://www.vanta.com/
Foo Camp on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/foocamp
TechCrunch Mahalo coverage: https://techcrunch.com/2014/01/27/inside-mobile-news-launch/
Timestamps:
0:00 Hanover Park & the fund admin problem
3:32 Why funds outsource instead of building
5:44 Why fund accounting is so complex
10:38 The "one-click migration" goal
10:48 Northwest Registered Agent - Get more when you start your business with Northwest. In 10 clicks and 10 minutes, you can form your company and walk away with a real business identity — Learn more at https://northwestregisteredagent.com/twist
13:51 Context vs. intelligence gaps
16:11 No PMs, No Designers
20:46 Vanta - Get $1000 off your SOC 2 at https://www.vanta.com/twist
23:18 This is a $100T opportunity
25:36 Flashback w/ Dylan Field of Figma
29:15 Sentry - Your team should be focused on shipping features — not chasing down bugs. New users can get $240 in free credits when they go to https://sentry.io/twist and use the code TWIST
31:22 Pre-AI enterprise security worries
36:30 SaaS overload and SaaS burnout
37:30 The evolution of Figma pricing
42:38 The rise and fall of Mahalo dot com
51:38 The work-from-home revolution begins
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‘Hard Fork’ Live Part 2: Dylan Field on Standing Out in the A.I. Era
We’re back with more from our live event at the Yerba Buena Center for the Arts in San Francisco. In this episode, we sit down with Dylan Field, a founder and the chief executive of the design company Figma, for what he describes as a “roller coaster” of a conversation. We cover everything from the company’s “Design Is Dead” campaign to the sudden resignation of the Anthropic executive Mike Krieger from Figma’s board. Then, we close things out with a special musical performance by eight wooden robotic dolls that make up the Teenage Engineering Choir.
One quick correction to note: In our interview with Field, he makes reference to the SpaceX S-1 filing and misstates what the company says their addressable market for A.I. enterprise applications is. Field says “$22.9 trillion,” but the correct number from the SpaceX filing is $22.7 trillion. The decimal point makes it look small, but it’s a difference of $200 billion.
We’ll be back on Friday with our final installment of “Hard Fork” Live.
Guests:
Dylan Field, chief executive and co-founder of Figma.
Dan Powell, robot conductor, New York Times music composer and “Hard Fork” theme-song creator.
Teenage Engineering Choir
Additional Reading:
This Start-Up’s $20 Billion Sale Died. It Came Fighting Back.
We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.
Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.
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20Sales: Inside Figma's $1BN ARR Revenue Machine | Why We Do Not Have Customer Success or SDRs | Why I Do Not Believe in Sales Quotas with Shaunt Voskanian, CRO @ Figma
Shaunt Voskanian is the CRO @ Figma, where he has scaled the sales machine to over $1BN in ARR and over 400 people. Prior to Figma, Shaunt was Senior VP of Global Sales at Datadog where he scaled the revenue org to $1BN in ARR.
AGENDA:
04:33 - Are Great Sales Leaders Born or Trained?
06:55 - In a world of PLG, is sales less important than ever?
11:51 - Why does Shaunt not believe in traditional customer success teams?
14:31 - Does the role of the SDR survive in two years' time?
19:19 - When is the right time for sales to intercept in a PLG motion?
21:43 - How to Set Sales Quotas in a PLG AI Sales World?
31:19 - How has what you look for in sales hires changed over time?
42:54 - How do you judge sales performance if not on quota?
54:49 - Quick fire: Outdated sales tactic, What Role Dies, Best Sales AI Tool
Figma’s Dylan Field on the Future of Design
Dylan Field is the co-founder and CEO of Figma, a design software company that went public in July 2025. Founded in 2012, Figma transformed how people design, prototype, and build products together. After a $20 billion acquisition attempt by Adobe collapsed in 2022 because of regulators, Dylan helped Figma rebound stronger than ever. Just three years later, Figma listed its shares at nearly $20 billion and its stock price more than tripled on its first trading day.
A few highlights:
Expanding a sleepy market
Merging of designers and product roles
Counter-narrative to polarizing CEOs
If models get better, we have to
Remembering Brat Summer
Resources:
More on Dylan:
https://www.figma.com/
https://X.com/zoink
More on Jack:
https://www.altcap.com/
https://x.com/jaltma
https://linktr.ee/uncappedpod
Email: friends@uncappedpod.com
Stay Updated:
If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to like, subscribe, and share with your friends!
Find a16z on X: https://twitter.com/a16z
Find a16z on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/a16z
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Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures.
Stay Updated:
Find a16z on YouTube: YouTube
Find a16z on X
Find a16z on LinkedIn
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Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures.
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First Time Founders: Figma’s Founder on Post-IPO Life & the Road Ahead
Ed Elson speaks with Dylan Field, co-founder and CEO of Figma. They discuss the future of design in the age of AI, how his management style has changed over time, and what it was like to go public.
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Figma’s CEO: Why AI makes design, craft, and quality the new moat for startups | Dylan Field
Dylan Field is co-founder and CEO of Figma, a beloved tool used by every modern product team. Founded in 2012, Figma has expanded from a single design tool to a comprehensive platform including FigJam, Slides, Dev Mode, and, most recently, Figma Make. After a $20 billion acquisition by Adobe fell through due to regulatory pushback, Dylan led the company to a successful IPO in 2025.
What you’ll learn:
• How Dylan kept internal morale up after the Adobe acquisition fell through
• His approach to maintaining pace and a sense of urgency 13 years in
• How to systematically develop taste
• How Figma decides which product lines to add
• Why Dylan obsesses over “time to value”
• How AI is making design more valuable
—
Brought to you by:
Stripe—Helping companies of all sizes grow revenue
—
Transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/why-ai-makes-design-craft-and-quality-the-new-moat
—
My biggest takeaways (for paid newsletter subscribers): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/i/175569466/my-biggest-takeaways-from-this-conversation
—
Where to find Dylan Field:
• X: https://x.com/zoink
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dylanfield/
—
Where to find Lenny:
• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com
• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/
—
In this episode, we cover:
(00:00) Introduction to Dylan Field
(03:58) The Adobe deal fallout
(05:50) Maintaining team morale post-deal
(09:13) Strategies for sustaining high performance
(13:37) Maintaining Figma’s unique company culture
(16:22) Dylan’s leadership evolution
(21:03) How to improve clarity as a leader
(24:40) The controversy behind FigJam
(31:06) Lessons from expanding Figma’s core product line
(39:32) Time-to-value
(45:14) Introduction to Figma Make
(48:26) AI app prototyping and the future of Figma Make
(53:38) Lessons from Figma’s AI product launch
(57:47) The importance of craft
(59:54) Developing good taste
(01:05:35) The future of product development
(01:10:32) Why AI won’t steal your job
(01:14:37) AI corner
(01:18:32) Lightning round and final thoughts
—
Referenced:
• Dylan Field live at Config: Intuition, simplicity, and the future of design: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/dylan-field-live-at-config
• Figma: https://www.figma.com/
• Adobe: https://www.adobe.com/
• Vision, conviction, and hype: How to build 0 to 1 inside a company | Mihika Kapoor (Product at Figma): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/vision-conviction-hype-mihika-kapoor
• Notion’s lost years, its near collapse during Covid, staying small to move fast, the joy and suffering of building horizontal, more | Ivan Zhao (CEO and co-founder): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-notion-ivan-zhao
• $46B of hard truths from Ben Horowitz: Why founders fail and why you need to run toward fear (a16z co-founder): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/46b-of-hard-truths-from-ben-horowitz
• FigJam: https://www.figma.com/figjam/
• Cursor chat: https://help.figma.com/hc/en-us/articles/4403130802199-Use-cursor-chat-in-Figma-Design
• Figma Slides: https://www.figma.com/slides/
• Figma Sites: https://www.figma.com/sites/
• Figma Buzz: https://www.figma.com/buzz/
• Figma Draw: https://www.figma.com/draw/
• Figma Design: https://www.figma.com/design/
• Dev Mode: https://www.figma.com/dev-mode/
• Figma Make: https://www.figma.com/make/
• Zach Lloyd on X: https://x.com/zachlloydtweets
• Warp: https://www.warp.dev/
• Dylan’s post on X about Figma on an AI product leaderboard: https://x.com/zoink/status/1968588014935801884
• Kurt Cobain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Cobain
• Damien Correll on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/damiencorrell/
• Marcin Wichary on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mwichary/
• Loredana Crisan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/loredanacrisan/
• Amber Bravo on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amberbravo/
• Figma’s 2025 AI report: Perspectives from designers and developers: https://www.figma.com/blog/figma-2025-ai-report-perspectives/
• Jevons paradox: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox#Energy_conservation_policy
• AI prompt engineering in 2025: What works and what doesn’t | Sander Schulhoff (Learn Prompting, HackAPrompt): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/ai-prompt-engineering-in-2025-sander-schulhoff
• Pantheon: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11680642/
• Retro: https://retro.app/
• Thiel Fellowship: https://thielfellowship.org/
—
Recommended books:
• Understanding Comics: The Invisible Art: https://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Comics-Invisible-Scott-McCloud/dp/006097625X
• The Spy and the Traitor: The Greatest Espionage Story of the Cold War: https://www.amazon.com/Spy-Traitor-Greatest-Espionage-Story/dp/1101904216
• Codex Seraphinianus: https://www.amazon.com/Codex-Seraphinianus-Anniversary-Luigi-Serafini/dp/0847871045
Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.
—
Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.
My biggest takeaways from this conversation:
To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com
Taste is your Moat (Dylan Field of Figma)
Dylan Field (CEO Figma) on how they are letting designers build with Figma Make, how Figma can be the context repository for aesthetic in the age of vibe coding, and why design is your only differentiator now.
Full show notes: https://www.latent.space/p/figma
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.latent.space/subscribe
Design dominance sparks a blockbuster IPO, with Figma’s Dylan Field
Figma burst into the public eye in 2022 after Adobe was blocked from buying the design startup for $20 billion. This chapter set the stage for an even bigger milestone at Figma: a splashy IPO this summer at nearly double that valuation. Dylan Field, Figma’s co-founder and CEO, joins Rapid Response to share what distinguishes Figma from competitors, and why design is increasingly at the center of every industry in today’s software-driven economy. Field also reflects on the pressures and opportunities of leading as a next-generation, tech-native CEO, and offers practical advice on upskilling in an AI-powered world.
Visit the Rapid Response website here: https://www.rapidresponseshow.com/
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Figma: Dylan Field
The dashboard in your car – the interface on your Zoom screen … many of the products we interact with every day were created with the collaborative software Figma. Figma is a kind of Google Docs for design, created by Dylan Field and Evan Wallace after they won a Thiel fellowship in 2012. Dylan was just 20 when he became CEO. The only other job he’d had before that….? was college intern. He eventually figured out how to manage his team, and grew the company enough to attract a 20 billion dollar acquisition bid from Adobe. The deal fell through, but Figma continued to grow, and recently filed for an IPO.
This episode was researched and produced by Kerry Thompson with music composed by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by Neva Grant. Our engineers were Patrick Murray and Jimmy Keeley.
You can follow HIBT on X & Instagram, and email us at hibt@id.wondery.com. Sign up for Guy’s free newsletter at guyraz.com or on Substack.
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
20Product: Figma CPO on How Figma Builds Products: What Works, What Does Not | How Figma Does Testing and Product Reviews | The Future of Design, Engineering and Product with Yuhki Yamashita
Yuhki Yamashita is the Chief Product Officer at Figma, where he leads the development of one of the world's most beloved design platforms. Previously, he was Head of Product at Uber, overseeing the core rider experience used by millions globally. A master of product storytelling and team-building, Yuhki has redefined how world-class digital products are built and scaled.
Items Mentioned in Today's Episode:
04:30 – "Simple is Lazy?" — Yuhki Challenges Product Dogma
07:45 – The Secret Behind Figma's New Product Ideas (Hint: Users Hack It First)
09:00 – From Hack Week to Roadmap: How New Figma Products Are Born
10:00 – Are PRDs Dead? Yuhki's Spicy Take on the Death of Specs
12:30 – The 'Screenshot Test': Can Your Product Explain Itself in 1 Frame?
14:15 – Code Layers and 'Living Designs'—This Demo Blew Everyone's Mind
15:30 – Designers vs Coders: Who Really Owns the Future of Product?
17:45 – The Most Controversial Product Decision Inside Figma
19:00 – Why Figma's Org Structure Could Kill the PM Role (For Real)
21:00 – Should Everyone Be a Designer and a Builder Now?
23:15 – Will Figma Have Fewer Engineers in 5 Years?
24:00 – Cursor, Windsurf & AI Coding Tools—What Figma Engineers Really Use
25:30 – AI's Dual Power: Lowering the Floor, Raising the Ceiling
27:00 – Figma's Biggest Product Flop? Yuhki Owns It
29:30 – The Magic of Product Storytelling—Even for Boring Compliance Tools
31:00 – Why Joy Must Be in the Product (and How Figma Bakes It In)
33:00 – Does Product Market Fit Even Mean Anything in 2025?
35:30 – Is Great Design Enough? Or Is It ALL About Distribution?
37:15 – Dylan's Secret to Early Growth: Hacking Design Twitter
39:00 – Community Mistakes Startups Keep Making
41:00 – The One Thing Yuhki Wishes He Could Change at Figma
43:00 – Should They Have Launched 4 Products at Once? Time Will Tell
45:00 – When Do You Know a New Product Is Doomed?
46:30 – Why Designers Still Don't Ship What They Design (and How to Fix It)
48:00 – From Uber to Figma: Yuhki's Playbook for Massive Product Swings
53:00 – The Adobe Deal Breakup—How Figma Rallied
56:00 – What Yuhki Needs to Improve as a Leader (His Own Feedback Review)
58:00 – The Product Leader He Admires Most—and Why
59:30 – What Figma Still Gets Wrong About Product Culture
Please read the offering circular and related risks at invest.modemobile.com. This is a paid advertisement for Mode Mobile's Regulation A+ Offering. Past performance is no guarantee of future results. Investing in private company securities is not suitable for all investors because it is highly speculative and involves a high degree of risk. It should only be considered a long-term investment. You must be prepared to withstand a total loss of your investment. Private company securities are also highly illiquid, and there is no guarantee that a market will develop for such securities. DealMaker Securities LLC, a registered broker-dealer, and member of FINRA | SIPC, located at 105 Maxess Road, Suite 124, Melville, NY 11747, is the Intermediary for this offering and is not an affiliate of or connected with the Issuer. Please check our background on FINRA's BrokerCheck.
Building Figma Slides with Noah Finer and Jonathan Kaufman
Supported by Our Partners
• Graphite — The AI developer productivity platform.
• Sonar — Code quality and code security for ALL code.
• Chronosphere — The observability platform built for control.
—
How do you take a new product idea, and turn it into a successful product? Figma Slides started as a hackathon project a year and a half ago – and today it’s a full-on product, with more than 4.5M slide decks created by users. I’m joined by two founding engineers on this project: Jonathan Kaufman and Noah Finer.
In our chat, Jonathan and Noah pull back the curtain on what it took to build Figma Slides. They share engineering challenges faced, interesting engineering practices utilized, and what it's like working on a product used by millions of designers worldwide.
We talk about:
• An overview of Figma Slides
• The tech stack behind Figma Slides
• Why the engineering team built grid view before single slide view
• How Figma ensures that all Figma files look the same across browsers
• Figma’s "vibe testing" approach
• How beta testing helped experiment more
• The “all flags on”, “all flags off” testing approach
• Engineering crits at Figma
• And much more!
—
Timestamps
(00:00) Intro
(01:45) An overview of Figma Slides and the first steps in building it
(06:41) Why Figma built grid view before single slide view
(10:00) The next steps of building UI after grid view
(12:10) The team structure and size of the Figma Slides team
(14:14) The tech stack behind Figma Slides
(15:31) How Figma uses C++ with bindings
(17:43) The Chrome debugging extension used for C++ and WebAssembly
(21:02) An example of how Noah used the debugging tool
(22:18) Challenges in building Figma Slides
(23:15) An explanation of multiplayer cursors
(26:15) Figma’s philosophy of building interconnected products—and the code behind them
(28:22) An example of a different mouse behavior in Figma
(33:00) Technical challenges in developing single slide view
(35:10) Challenges faced in single-slide view while maintaining multiplayer compatibility
(40:00) The types of testing used on Figma Slides
(43:42) Figma’s zero bug policy
(45:30) The release process, and how engineering uses feature flags
(48:40) How Figma tests Slides with feature flags enabled and then disabled
(51:35) An explanation of eng crits at Figma
(54:53) Rapid fire round
—
The Pragmatic Engineer deepdives relevant for this episode:
• Inside Figma’s engineering culture
• Quality Assurance across the tech industry
• Shipping to production
• Design-first software engineering
—
See the transcript and other references from the episode at https://newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/podcast
—
Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@pragmaticengineer.com.
Get full access to The Pragmatic Engineer at newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/subscribe
Dylan Field - Designing The Future - [Invest Like the Best, EP.407]
My guest today is Dylan Field. Dylan is the co-founder and CEO of Figma and last joined me on Invest Like the Best in 2020. A lot has changed since then and we explore the evolving landscape of design and how Figma has been navigating AI while staying true to its founding vision of eliminating the gap between imagination and reality. Despite Figma's incredible success in becoming the default design platform, Dylan remains deeply motivated by helping users achieve their goals. He shares fascinating insights about the underhyped aspects of AI reasoning capabilities, the future of design literacy, and why he believes truly great design will always require human craft and creativity. Please enjoy my discussion with Dylan Field.
For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page here.
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This episode is brought to you by Ramp. Ramp’s mission is to help companies manage their spend in a way that reduces expenses and frees up time for teams to work on more valuable projects. Ramp is the fastest-growing FinTech company in history, and it’s backed by more of my favorite past guests (at least 16 of them!) than probably any other company I’m aware of. Go to Ramp.com/invest to sign up for free and get a $250 welcome bonus.
–
This episode is brought to you by AlphaSense. AlphaSense has completely transformed the research process with cutting-edge AI technology and a vast collection of top-tier, reliable business content. Imagine completing your research five to ten times faster with search that delivers the most relevant results, helping you make high-conviction decisions with confidence. Invest Like the Best listeners can get a free trial now at Alpha-Sense.com/Invest and experience firsthand how AlphaSense and Tegus help you make smarter decisions faster.
–
This episode is brought to you by Ridgeline. Ridgeline has built a complete, real-time, modern operating system for investment managers. It handles trading, portfolio management, compliance, customer reporting, and much more through an all-in-one real-time cloud platform. I think this platform will become the standard for investment managers, and if you run an investing firm, I highly recommend you find time to speak with them. Head to ridgelineapps.com to learn more about the platform.
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Invest Like the Best is a property of Colossus, LLC. For more episodes of Invest Like the Best, visit joincolossus.com/episodes.
Follow us on Twitter: @patrick_oshag | @JoinColossus
Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant (https://thepodcastconsultant.com).
Show Notes:
(00:00:00) Learn about Ramp, AlphaSense, and Ridgeline
(00:07:11) Current State of Technology and Optimism
(00:09:21) Entrepreneurial Mindset and Long-term Thinking
(00:10:23) Challenges of Building in Stealth Mode
(00:12:44) AI and the Future of Design
(00:14:07) Navigating AI Opportunities and Risks
(00:17:05) Design Principles and User Experience
(00:29:55) Future of Interfaces and Interaction
(00:31:45) Dark Patterns and Ethical Concerns
(00:33:42) Personal Motivations and Company Vision
(00:40:04) Balancing Responsibilities as a CEO
(00:41:54) The Future of Design and AI Integration
(00:44:48) Speculating on AI's Impact on Design
(00:46:26) Encouragement to Experiment and Innovate
SaaStr 786: Adding AI to SaaS: Inside the AI Product Strategies of Figma, Cloudflare, GitHub and Ramp
SaaStr 786: Adding AI to SaaS: Inside the AI Product Strategies of Figma, Cloudflare, GitHub and Ramp
At SaaStr Annual's AI Summit, we gathered an all-star panel of product leaders who have built some of the most widely-used AI features in production today. The speakers included Mario Rodriguez, Chief Product Officer at GitHub at GitHub, Diego Zaks, VP of Design at Ramp, Dane Knecht, SVP of Emerging Technologies at Cloudflare, and Vincent van der Meulen, Design Engineer at Figma, and Dani Grant, CEO at Jam.dev.
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SaaStr hosts the largest SaaS community events on the planet.
Hey everybody - thanks to the 10,000 of you who came out to SaaStr Annual. We had a blast and big news -- we'll be back in MAY of 2025. That's right, the SaaStr Annual will be a bit earlier next year, May 13-15 2025. We'll still be back in the same venue, in the SF bay area at the 40+ acre sprawling san mateo county events center. Grab your tickets at saastrannual.com with code JASON50 for an extra discount on our very best pricing.
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The Best of 2024 (so far) with Sarah Guo and Elad Gil
Believe or not, we’re almost halfway through 2024. Sarah and Elad have spent the first of this year talking with some of the most innovative minds in the AI industry, so we’re taking a look at some of our favorite No Priors conversations so far featuring Dylan Field (Figma); Emily Glassberg-Sands (Stripe); Brett Adcock (Figure AI); Aditya Ramesh, Tim Brooks and Bill Peebles (OpenAI’s Sora Team); Scott Wu (Cognition); and Alexandr Wang (Scale).
Watch or listen to the full episodes here:
Build AI products at on-AI companies with Emily Glassberg Sands from Stripe
Designing the Future: Dylan Field on AI, Collaboration, and Independence
The argument for humanoid robots with Brett Adcock from Figure
OpenAI’s Sora team thinks we’ve only seen the "GPT-1 of video models"
Cognition’s Scott Wu on how Devin, the AI software engineer, will work for you
The Data Foundry for AI with Alexandr Wang from Scale
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Follow us on Twitter: @NoPriorsPod | @Saranormous | @EladGil
Show Notes:
(0:00) Introduction
(0:46) Emily Glassberg Sands on the Future of AI and Fintech
(4:23 Dylan Field on AI and Human Creative Potential
(9:03) Brett Adcock on Running Figure AI’s Hardware and Software Processes
(12:43) OpenAI’s Sora Team on Artists’ Creative Experiences with their Model
(17:43) Scott Wu Gives Advice for Human Engineers Co-Working with AI
(21:06) Alexandr Wang on How Quality Data Builds Confidence in AI Systems
Dylan Field live at Config: Intuition, simplicity, and the future of design
Dylan Field is the co-founder and CEO of Figma, the collaborative design platform that has revolutionized how product teams work. In my first-ever live podcast, recorded at Figma Config, Dylan and I dig into:
• How intuition and product taste drive Dylan’s decision-making
• The challenge of keeping things simple
• Dylan’s thoughts on the future of product management
• Lessons from Figma’s early days
• How Figma built their initial user base
• Dylan’s journey from intern to CEO of a 1,000+-person company
• The future of design tools and AI
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Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/dylan-field-live-at-config
—
Where to find Dylan Field:
• X: https://x.com/zoink?lang=en
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dylanfield/
—
Where to find Lenny:
• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com
• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/
—
In this episode, we cover:
(00:00) Introduction
(01:11) Welcoming Dylan Field
(02:36) Highlights and surprises from Config
(06:58) The philosophy of design
(08:01) Raccoon feet and muffin hands
(09:57) Building and refining intuition and product taste
(12:50) How to influence leadership
(16:14) The role of product managers
(21:12) The future of product management
(22:20) The importance of simplicity in design
(26:10) The long road to Figma’s launch
(27:44) Advice for aspiring entrepreneurs
(29:07) Knowing when it’s time to ship
(30:39) Early user acquisition strategies
(35:50) Spotting trends and future innovations
(39:20) Reflections on leadership and growth
(43:16) Lightning round
—
Referenced:
• Mihika Kapoor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mihikakapoor/
• Rick Rubin on the Creative Act—60 Minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE1teB5bN-w
• Figma pages: https://help.figma.com/hc/en-us/articles/360038511293-Create-and-manage-pages
• Leading through uncertainty: A design-led company—Brian Chesky (Config 2023): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dkfijg7s76o
• An inside look at how Figma builds product | Yuhki Yamashita (CPO of Figma): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/an-inside-look-at-how-figma-builds
• Vision, conviction, and hype: How to build 0 to 1 inside a company | Mihika Kapoor (Product at Figma): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/vision-conviction-hype-mihika-kapoor
• An inside look at Figma’s unique GTM motion | Claire Butler (first GTM hire): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/an-inside-look-at-figmas-unique-bottom
• Zigging vs. zagging: How HubSpot built a $30B company | Dharmesh Shah (co-founder/CTO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/lessons-from-30-years-of-building
• Nadia Singer on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nadiasinger/
• Sho Kuwamoto on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shokuwamoto/
• FigJam: https://www.figma.com/figjam/
• Tim Van Damme on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-van-damme-maxvoltar/
• Coda: https://coda.io/
• Shishir Mehrotra on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shishirmehrotra/
• Websim: https://websim.ai/
• eToys.com commercial (from Dylan’s childhood acting career): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3Y92aCmmbU
—
Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.
—
Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe
Vision, conviction, and hype: How to build 0 to 1 inside a company | Mihika Kapoor (Product at Figma)
Mihika Kapoor is a design-engineer-PM hybrid at Figma, where she was an early PM on FigJam and is now spearheading development on a new product at the company that’s coming out this June. She’s known as the go-to person at Figma for leading new 0-to-1 products, and, as you’ll hear in our conversation, beloved by everyone she works with. Her background includes founding Design Nation, a national nonprofit focused on democratizing design education for undergraduates; spearheading product launches at Meta; and community building within the NYC AI startup scene. In our conversation, we discuss:
• How to effectively take ideas from 0 to 1 at larger companies
• How to craft a compelling vision
• The importance of vulnerability and feedback
• The role of intuition and product sense in making decisions
• How to practically communicate your vision
• How to balance collaboration and strong opinions
• Advice for building a strong team culture
• Pivoting with grace and enthusiasm
• The current AI revolution and its impact on PM
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Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/vision-conviction-hype-mihika-kapoor
—
Where to find Mihika Kapoor:
• X: https://twitter.com/mihikapoor
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mihikakapoor/
—
Where to find Lenny:
• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com
• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/
—
In this episode, we cover:
(00:00) Mihika’s background
(04:29) Core attributes of great product managers
(07:34) Crafting a compelling vision
(12:12) The vision behind FigJam
(18:25) Delivering a vision without design or engineering skills
(21:52) Creating momentum
(26:36) The importance of strong conviction
(27:45) Direct communication
(32:48) Building hype
(42:20) Immersing yourself in user insights
(47:16) Operationalizing user insights
(50:33) Caring deeply about what you build
(54:01) Finding passion in your work
(57:00) Building a strong culture
(01:07:07) Pivoting with grace and enthusiasm
(01:11:48) Design Nation
(01:13:15) Mihika’s weaknesses
(01:16:07) Building new products at larger companies
(01:20:50) Coming up with a great idea
(01:22:49) The key to going from 0 to 1
(01:26:47) Spreading the idea across the company
(01:29:15) Closing thoughts
(01:32:11) Lightning round
—
Referenced:
• Figma: https://www.figma.com/
• Sho Kuwamoto on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shokuwamoto/
• The Medici Effect: What Elephants and Epidemics Can Teach Us About Innovation: https://www.amazon.com/Medici-Effect-Preface-Discussion-Guide/dp/1633692949
• FigJam: https://www.figma.com/figjam/
• Cognition: https://www.cognition-labs.com/
• Devin: https://www.cognition-labs.com/introducing-devin
• David Hoang on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dhoang2/
• Replit: https://replit.com/
• The Making of Maker Week at Figma: https://www.figma.com/blog/the-making-of-maker-week/
• Yuhki Yamashita on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/yuhki/
• Jeff Bezos’ Simple Decision-Making Framework Will Give You Clarity, Conviction, and Courage: https://medium.com/illumination/jeff-bezos-simple-decision-making-framework-will-give-you-clarity-conviction-and-courage-adf8d0183625
• Alice Ching on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aliceching/
• Karl Jiang on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karl-jiang-4a07424/
• Kris Rasmussen on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristopherrasmussen/
• Config: https://config.figma.com/
• Dev Mode: https://www.figma.com/dev-mode/
• Asana: https://asana.com/
• Julie Zhuo on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julie-zhuo/
• StrengthsFinder test: https://www.gyfted.me/personality-quiz/strengthsfinder-test-free
• Dylan Field on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dylanfield/
• Vishal Shah on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vishalnshah/
• Design Disruptors: https://www.invisionapp.com/films/design-disruptors
• Daniel Burka on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dburka/
• Jamie Myrold on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamiemyrold/
• Design Nation: https://dn.businesstoday.org/
• Stuart Weitzman on X: https://twitter.com/StuartWeitzman
• Joe Gebbia on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jgebbia/
• Building a long and meaningful career | Nikhyl Singhal (Meta, Google): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/building-a-long-and-meaningful-career-nikhyl-singhal-meta-google/
• Jambot: https://www.figma.com/community/widget/1274481464484630971/jambot
• Hestia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hestia
• Harry Potter series: https://www.amazon.com/Harry-Potter-Paperback-Box-Books/dp/0545162076
• Pachinko: https://www.amazon.com/Pachinko-National-Book-Award-Finalist/dp/1455563927/
• Creativity, Inc.: Overcoming the Unseen Forces That Stand in the Way of True Inspiration: https://www.amazon.com/Creativity-Inc-Expanded-Overcoming-Inspiration/dp/0593594649
• The Overstory: https://www.amazon.com/Overstory-Novel-Richard-Powers/dp/039335668X
• Severance on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/severance/umc.cmc.1srk2goyh2q2zdxcx605w8vtx
• Dune on Max: https://www.max.com/movies/dune/e7dc7b3a-a494-4ef1-8107-f4308aa6bbf7
• Dune: Part 2: https://www.dunemovie.com/
• Arc browser: https://arc.net/
• Pika: https://pika.art/home
• The power of recognition: Why you should celebrate your employees | Josh Miller: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/videos/the-power-of-recognition-why-you-should-celebrate-your-employees-josh-miller/
—
Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.
—
Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe
Figma CEO Dylan Field is optimistic about the future and AI
We’ve got a fun one today — I talked to Figma CEO Dylan Field in front of a live audience at South by Southwest in Austin, Texas. And we got into it – we talked about everything from design, to software distribution, to the future of the web, and, of course, AI.
Figma is an fascinating company – the Figma design tool is used by designers at basically every company you can think of. And importantly, it runs on the web. It became such a big deal that Adobe tried to buy it out in 2022 for $20 billion dollars, a deal that only just recently fell through because of regulatory concerns.
So Dylan and I talked a lot about where Figma is now as an independent company, how Figma is structured, where it’s going, and how Dylan’s decisionmaking has changed since the last time he was on the show in 2022.
Links:
Why Figma is selling to Adobe for $20 billion, with CEO Dylan Field — Decoder
Adobe abandons $20 billion acquisition of Figma — The Verge
Adobe’s Dana Rao on AI, copyright, and the failed Figma deal — Decoder
Figma’s CEO on life after the company’s failed sale to Adobe — Command Line
Amazon restricts self-publishing due to AI concerns — The Guardian
Wix’s new AI chatbot builds websites in seconds based on prompts — The Verge
Apple is finally allowing full versions of Chrome and Firefox on the iPhone — The Verge
What Is Solarpunk? A Guide to the Environmental Art Movement. — Built In
Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23866201
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
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Designing the Future: Dylan Field on AI, Collaboration, and Independence
Figma has had a banner year and the formidable team isn’t slowing down—even after regulatory issues blocked the merger with Adobe. Today on No Priors, Sarah and Elad are joined by Dylan Field the CEO and founder of Figma, the design collaboration tool that is closing the gap between imagination and reality. They discuss what’s next for an independent Figma, how AI can augment design and speed up the iteration loop, and how Figma is expanding beyond design with products that help the entire product team’s workflow.
Show Links:
https://www.figma.com/
Figma and Adobe are abandoning our proposed merger
Sign up for new podcasts every week. Email feedback to show@no-priors.com
Follow us on Twitter: @NoPriorsPod | @Saranormous | @EladGil | @zoink
Show Notes:
(0:00) Introduction
(2:01) No more Adobe acquisition
(4:20) What’s next for Figma
(7:16) FigJam, digital collaboration, and expanding beyond design
(10:50) Figma DevMode
(13:06) Incorporating AI at Figma
(15:03) How AI will change design
(19:19) Creativity augmentation and the iterative loop
(22:44) Automating repetitive design tasks
(25:35) The future of AI UI
(29:44) Investing philosophy
(31:28) Leadership evolution
Bringing Dev Mode to Figma (Interview)
This week on we’re joined by Emil Sjölander from Figma — talking about bringing Dev Mode to Figma. Dev Mode is their new workspace in Figma that’s designed to bring developers and design to the same tool.
The question they’re trying to answer is “How do you create a home for developers in a design tool?” We go way back to Emil’s startup that was acquired by Figma called Visly, how we iterated to here from 20 years ago (think PSD > HTML days), what they did to build Dev Mode, what they’re doing around codegen, the popularity of design systems, and what it takes to go from zero to Dev Mode.
Join the discussion
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Featuring:
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Show Notes:
Dev Mode: Building a design tool that works harder for developers
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!
An inside look at Figma’s unique GTM motion | Claire Butler (first GTM hire)
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—
Claire Butler was Figma’s first GTM hire and their 10th employee. She led Figma’s early GTM strategy from stealth through monetization. She also helped the team through the journey to find product-market fit and built the team that drove Figma’s unique bottom-up growth motion. Eight years later, as Senior Director of Marketing, she continues to lead Figma’s bottom-up growth motion, along with community, events, social, advocacy, and Figma for education. In this episode, we discuss:
• An in-depth look at Figma’s bottom-up GTM motion
• Why you need to start with individual contributors (ICs) loving your product
• How to spread adoption within the organization
• How “designer advocates” have played a critical role in Figma’s growth
• The freemium strategy that drove massive growth for Figma
• How to leverage product champions
• When to leave stealth
• Early-stage metrics, and why they are often unreliable
• Advice for people looking to join a startup
—
Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/an-inside-look-at-figmas-unique-bottom
—
Where to find Claire Butler:
• Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/clairetbutler
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairetbutler/
—
Where to find Lenny:
• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com
• Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/lennysan
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/
—
In this episode, we cover:
(00:00) Claire’s background
(03:47) The huge branding decision that Claire made on day one at Figma
(07:45) The most stressful memory of early days at Figma
(09:55) Advice for people looking to join a startup
(12:55) What a bottom-up go-to-market motion is
(17:12) Figma’s unique approach to bottom-up GTM
(18:52) Figma’s launch out of stealth
(23:01) Signals vs. hard metrics in the early days
(24:50) How Figma won over Microsoft
(30:08) How to win over ICs
(32:00) How to establish credibility
(37:38) Customer obsession in action
(41:11) Why getting users to love your product is so vital
(44:01) How Figma used Twitter as its primary channel in the early days
(49:06) Transparency and authenticity
(49:52) GTM tactics at scale
(52:09) “Little big updates” at Figma
(54:16) Figma’s acquisition, and why it was one of the hardest days of Claire’s career
(57:10) Figma’s core values
(58:06) The Config conference
(1:00:21) Spreading your product within the organization
(1:02:09) The pricing tiers at Figma
(1:07:35) The role of designer advocates
(1:10:57) Design systems
(1:16:12) Leveraging internal champions
(1:17:53) Accelerating spread at scale
(1:19:14) What types of companies are a good fit for bottom-up GTM
(1:24:16) A summary of the bottom-up GTM model
(1:25:27) Lightning round
—
Referenced:
• Dylan Field on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dylanfield/
• John Lilly on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnlilly/
• Ivan Zhao on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ivanhzhao/
• Xamarin: https://dotnet.microsoft.com/en-us/apps/xamarin
• Josef Müller-Brockmann: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_M%C3%BCller-Brockmann
• Datadog: https://www.datadoghq.com/
• Coda: https://coda.io/
• Oren’s Hummus on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/orenshummus/
• Intercom: https://www.intercom.com/
• How Coda builds product: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-coda-builds-product
• Dylan Field on Twitter: https://twitter.com/zoink
• Dylan’s tweet: https://twitter.com/zoink/status/1566566649712431105
• Little Big Updates: https://www.figma.com/blog/little-big-updates-august-2022/
• Sho Kuwamoto on Twitter: https://twitter.com/skuwamoto
• Kris Rasmussen on Twitter: https://twitter.com/kris_rasmussen
• Config: https://config.figma.com/
• Tom Lowry on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomaslowry
• Atomic Design: https://atomicdesign.bradfrost.com/
• Figjam: https://www.figma.com/figjam/
• Dev Mode: https://www.figma.com/dev-mode/
• Radical Candor: Be a Kick-Ass Boss Without Losing Your Humanity: https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Candor-Revised-Kick-Ass-Humanity/dp/1250235375
• Dare to Lead: Brave Work. Tough Conversations. Whole Hearts: https://www.amazon.com/Dare-Lead-Brave-Conversations-Hearts/dp/0399592520
• 100 Foot Wave on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/100-foot-wave
• Atomic Habits: An Easy & Proven Way to Build Good Habits & Break Bad Ones: https://www.amazon.com/Atomic-Habits-James-Clear-audiobook/dp/B07RFSSYBH
• Noah Weiss on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-10-traits-of-great-pms-how-ai-will-impact-your-product-and-slacks-product-development-process/
• How to create an exceptional coverage plan for your parental leave (Tamara Hinckley): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-create-an-exceptional-coverage
—
Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.
—
Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe
SaaStr 639: Scaling a SaaS Sales Team While Building Culture with Figma VP of Sales Scott Pugh
Having scaled the APAC region for 3 US companies, with a big emphasis on building culture as a foundation for success, Scott will speak of his learnings and lead a discussion for:
Recruiting
Enabling
Creating Culture
Video: https://youtu.be/CfW0W0E3F4A
Want to join the SaaStr community? We're the 🌎largest community for B2B software.
Subscribe for weekly updates: https://www.saastr.com/subscribeform
Twitter: https://twitter.com/saastr
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/2724976
Quora Group: https://www.quora.com/q/cloud
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SaaStr/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/saastr/
Our North American Event: https://bit.ly/2OXeAYh
Our European Event: https://bit.ly/2OZTad8
An inside look at how Figma builds product | Yuhki Yamashita (CPO of Figma)
Yuhki Yamashita is Chief Product Officer at Figma. Prior to Figma, he was Head of Design of Uber’s New Mobility efforts, and before that a product manager at Google and Microsoft. Adding to his impressive resume, Yuhki also taught introductory computer science at Harvard. In today's episode, we talk about operationalizing quality, the case against OKRs, and how Figma isn't just known for product-led growth, but also for building a community of empowered users. Yuhki also shares why he thinks storytelling is key to being a great product manager, owning the "why," and the potential impact of Adobe's acquisition of Figma.
—
Find the full transcript here: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/an-inside-look-at-how-figma-builds
—
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—
Where to find Yuhki Yamashita:
• Twitter: https://twitter.com/yuhkiyam
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/yuhki/
• Website: https://www.figma.com/@yuhki
—
Where to find Lenny:
• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com
• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/
—
Referenced:
• Yuhki’s guest post on Lenny’s Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-figma-builds-product
• Shishir Mehrotra on Lenny’s Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-rituals-of-great-teams-shishir-mehrotra-of/id1627920305?i=1000576021672
• Five Why’s template: https://www.figma.com/templates/5-whys-template/
• Dylan Field on Twitter: https://twitter.com/zoink
• Jeff Holden on Twitter: https://twitter.com/jeffholden
• Figma: https://www.figma.com/
• Friends of Figma: https://friends.figma.com/
• Camille Ricketts on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-notion-leveraged-community-to-build-a-10b-business-camille-ricketts-notion-first-round-capital/
• Adobe Illustrator: https://www.adobe.com/products/illustrator/campaign/pricing.html
• Adobe Photoshop: https://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/
• Switch: How to Change Things When Change Is Hard: https://www.amazon.com/Switch-Change-Things-When-Hard/dp/0385528752/
• The Story of the Stone, or The Dream of the Red Chamber: https://www.amazon.com/Story-Stone-Dream-Chamber-Vol/dp/0140442936
• Serial podcast: https://serialpodcast.org/
• The Good Nurse on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81260083
• FigJam: https://www.figma.com/figjam/
• Asana: https://asana.com/
• Slack: https://slack.com/
• Notion: https://www.notion.so/
• Dropbox Paper: https://www.dropbox.com/paper/start
• Figma’s Alignment Scale: https://www.figma.com/community/widget/1030848035996871692
—
In this episode, we cover:
(00:00) Yuhki’s background
(09:05) What Yuhki learned from being on a design team
(10:29) Why managing designers is more difficult than managing product teams
(12:20) Why storytelling is important for product managers
(16:35) How to improve your storytelling skills
(18:51) Why PMs need to know the “why” of the product they are managing
(22:34) The importance of developing a community and strong customer relationships
(26:13) How to use different types of feedback
(28:11) Working with Dylan Field
(32:44) Testing at Figma and the branching emerging feature
(34:54) Why your entire company should be using your product
(36:50) The importance of having personal accountability
(38:48) Why Yuhki likes to stay out of the way of engineers fixing their own bugs
(40:50) Yuhki’s thoughts on OKRs and how they are used at Figma
(48:40) Figma’s interview process
(51:45) How Figma’s sales team works by creating human connections and empowering designers
(54:57) How Figma built community and created organic growth
(56:36) Advice for founders
(58:57) The potential acquisition by Adobe and the future possibilities for Figma
(1:01:42) Closing thoughts
(1:03:44) Lightning round
—
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Why Figma is selling to Adobe for $20 billion, with CEO Dylan Field
Dylan Field is the co-founder and CEO of Figma, which makes a very popular design tool that allows designers and their collaborators to all work together right in a web browser. You know how multiple people can edit together in Google Docs? Figma is that for design work. We just redesigned The Verge; we used Figma extensively throughout that process.
So for years, people have been waiting on the inevitable Figma vs. Adobe standoff since Figma was such a clear upstart competitor to Photoshop and Illustrator and the rest. Well, buckle up because in September, Adobe announced that it was buying Figma for $20 billion. Figma is going to remain independent inside Adobe, but you know, it’s a little weird.
So I wanted to talk to Dylan about the deal, why he’s doing it, how he made the decision to sell, and what things he can do as part of Adobe that he couldn’t do as an independent company.
Dylan’s also a pretty expansive thinker, so after we talked about his company getting the “fuck you” money from Adobe, we talked about making VR Figma for the metaverse and AGI, which is artificial general intelligence, or the kind of AI that can fully think for itself. This episode takes a turn. I think you’re going to like it.
Okay, Dylan Field, CEO of Figma. Here we go.
Links:
Welcome to the new Verge
Adobe to acquire Figma in a deal worth $20 billion
A New Collaboration with Adobe
Designers worry Adobe won't let Figma flourish
WebGL - Wikipedia
How big companies kill ideas — and how to fight back, with Tony Fadell - Decoder
Dylan Field on Twitter: "Our goal is to be Figma not Adobe"
College Dropout Turns Thiel Fellowship Into a $2 Billion Figma Fortune
Generative adversarial network (GAN) - Wikipedia
GPT-3 - Wikipedia
Is VR the next frontier in fitness? - Decoder
Artificial general intelligence - Wikipedia
Transcript:
https://www.theverge.com/e/23209862
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Jackson Bierfeldt.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
How Figma Caught Adobe By Surprise — With Carmel DeAmicis
Carmel DeAmicis was the 20th employee at Figma, a startup that Adobe just acquired for $20 billion. A former journalist and editor at Figma, DeAmicis saw the company rise under the nose of Adobe — the giant in the space — and eventually grow so fast that Adobe acquired it in a defensive move. In this week's episode, DeAmicis explains how a startup caught a major, established company by surprise. And why changing design culture played a big part in it. You can find DeAmicis on Notion.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
20 Sales: When To Hire Your Head of Sales/ First Reps, What To Look for in 10x Sales Candidates, How To Structure The Hiring Process, How To Onboard New Reps Efficiently, How To Set First Quotas and more with Kyle Parrish, Figma's VP Sales
Kyle Parrish is VP Sales @ Figma, the company that connects everyone in the design process so teams can deliver better products, faster. At Figma, Kyle built the sales engine from scratch to today, with over 100 incredible people in sales. Before Figma, Kyle spent over 5 years at Dropbox in numerous different roles including Head of Sales, where he scaled the Austin, Texas office from 3 to over 80 people to Global Partnerships lead, where he was responsible for growing Dropbox's partner ecosystem.
In Today's Episode with Kyle Parrish You Will Learn:
1.) How Kyle first made his way into the world of sales and came to be one of the 3 performing sales reps in a 300+ sales team? How that led to his joining the hypergrowth journey of Dropbox? What led Kyle to make the move from Dropbox to the rocketship that is Figma?
2.) When and Who: Does the founder need to be the person to create the sales playbook? How can a founder know whether it is right to hire sales reps or a Head of Sales first? In terms of ARR, is there a time when you have to have a Head of Sales? Does Kyle agree with Jason Lemkin in terms of bringing in reps, two at a time? Where do founders make the biggest mistakes when it comes to the timing of these hires?
3.) How To Know and Test: What non-obvious characteristics do 10x sales hires have? What questions or case studies does Kyle find to be most revealing in identifying these non-obvious traits? How should founders structure the process for new reps and a Head of Sales? Meeting by meeting, what should we look to achieve?
4.) Setting Up for Success: What does the ideal onboarding process look like for new sales reps? What tasks and processes would Kyle expect new reps to complete within the first month or two on the job? What are the clearest signs of a new rep hire not working out? How should founders approach 1-1 and 360 reviews with their new reps?
5.) Working Together: What is the ideal relationship between the founder and the new Head of Sales? How often should they meet? What should the founder expect from the new Head of Sales? How should the Head of Sales work with the Head of Marketing most efficiently?
Item's Mentioned In Today's Episode with Kyle Parrish
Kyle's Favourite Sales Blog Post: The Sales Learning Curve
CCO Figma, Amanda Kleha: The Strategies Behind Figma’s $10 Billion Valuation
When it comes to building a profitable business, Amanda Kleha has learned by doing.
Amanda’s seven-year tenure in multiple senior marketing and sales positions at Zendesk saw the company make an IPO, grow from 12 employees to 2,000, and go from $1 million to $300 million in revenue. Now, as Chief Customer Officer at Figma — a company recently valued at $10 billion that is creating collaborative design user interface platforms — Amanda is cementing her status as a top-tier business leader.
On this episode of Go to Market Grit, Joubin and Amanda talk about Amanda’s very successful run at Zendesk, her current work as CCO at Figma, and the importance of keeping the voice of the customer in focus during decision-making.
In this episode, we cover:
Structured, yet open: Amanda’s strategy for interviewing job candidates. (6:14)
Zendesk's massive growth and how it correlated with Amanda's feeling that she was having less fun working at the company. (11:22)
Building experience, gaining traction, showing impact: The benefits of sticking with a company for the long term. (14:51)
'This is the next Adobe': Figma's collaborative design user interface platform. (21:05)
How Amanda started working for Figma — and how she simplified the company's go-to-market through a combination of self-service and sales-assisted motions. (24:50)
Keeping the voice of the customer front-and-center during decision-making. (29:43)
Reflecting on negative and positive career milestones. (37:50)
How Amanda felt when others were hired to more senior positions before her at Zendesk — and how that experience helped her become more empathetic. (41:34)
Ways that sales reps at Figma stand out since quota attainment is so high. (45:33)
Leaders, fillers, and killers: Amanda's framework for product bundles. (52:11)
What the word grit means to Amanda. (1:03:07)
Links:
Connect with AmandaLinkedIn
Connect with JoubinTwitter
LinkedIn
Email: gtmg@kleinerperkins.com
Learn more about Kleiner Perkins
Dylan Field - The Growing Importance of Design – [Founder’s Field Guide, EP.14]
Dylan Field is the co-founder and CEO of Figma, a collaborative, online design tool which has taken the world by storm. With a most recent valuation of more than $2B and bakers like Andreessen Horowitz, Sequoia, Kleiner Perkins, and Greylock, Figma has been one of the most successful companies building tools for creators. In our conversation, we dive into the principles Figma is built on, how they created multi-player for design tools, and the growing importance of design in business. I hope you enjoy this conversation with Dylan Field.
For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content check out https://www.joincolossus.com/episodes/375923/field-the-growing-importance-of-design
DocSend is a document sharing platform that enables companies to share business-critical documents with ease and get real-time actionable analytics. With DocSend’s security and control, startup founders, investors, business development executives, and financial professionals can drive business outcomes that have a lasting impact. Start for free at www.docsend.com.
Founder's Field Guide is a property of Colossus Inc. For more episodes of Founder's Field Guide go to https://www.joincolossus.com/episodes.
Stay up to date on all our podcasts by signing up to Colossus Weekly, our quick dive every Sunday highlighting the top business and investing concepts from our podcasts and the best of what we read that week. Sign up here - https://www.joincolossus.com/newsletter.
Follow Patrick on Twitter at @patrick_oshag
Follow Colossus on Twitter at @JoinColossus
Show Notes
[00:2:04] – [First question] – His decision to and application for the Thiel Fellowship
[00:3:23] – What makes his co-founder Evan so good
[00:4:15] – The Thiel Fellowship interview process
[00:5:26] – Creating better opportunities for open ended learning in education
[00:6:12] – Why Software Is Eating The World
[00:7:48] – Importance and types of independent thought as they built Figma
[00:10:00] – Early stages of forming Figma
[00:12:03] – The market of designers and what Figma does
[00:15:57] – His principles of good design
[00:17:36] – Bret Victor - Inventing on Principle [Youtube]
[00:17:49] - Up and Down the Ladder of Abstraction
[00:18:12] – Future of design tools
[00:19:45] – Design as a multiplayer concept and surprises that have come from it
[00:21:40] – Threshold to know when product-market fit occurred
[00:24:11] – Lessons for pricing something effectively
[00:25:48] – Biggest challenge growing the business for him
[00:26:58] – What he’s learned as a manager since starting Figma
[00:28:38] – Lessons in effective recruiting
[00:31:49] – Payoff of hiring the right partner
[00:33:01] – The chapters/stages of Figma
[00:34:38] – What has led to success in terms of the distribution of Figma
[00:35:56] – Hardest thing to copy about Figma
[00:36:47] – Dealing with customer support and unhappy users
[00:38:08] – Their Communities platform and why it’s important for the business
[00:39:02] – Learning about and from their competitors
[00:41:50] – The landscape of software design tools
[00:43:43] – Interesting creator tools
[00:44:31] – What would be the key levers that lead to explosive growth for Figma
[00:45:57] – Global trends he is most curious in
[00:47:21] – Creating a more private digital world
[00:49:33] – Thoughts or advice for people building something new
[00:50:57] – Kindest thing anyone has done for him
20VC: Figma Founder, Dylan Field on How Leadership Needs To Evolve with Scale, The Transition from Application to Platform & The Future of Remote Work, Education and Digital Spaces
Dylan Field is the Founder & CEO @ Figma, the company that helps teams create, test, and ship better designs from start to finish and is one of 2020's fastest-growing companies. To date, Dylan has raised over $132M with Figma from some of the best including Sequoia, a16z, Index, Greylock, Founders Fund and Kleiner Perkins. Figma's latest round valued them at a reported $2Bn. Prior to founding Figma, Dylan enjoyed internships at Flipboard, LinkedIn and O'Reilly Media.
In Today's Episode You Will Learn:
1.) How Dylan made his way from an internship at O'Reilly Media and a Thiel Fellowship to founding Figma, one of the fastest-growing unicorns?
2.) How does Dylan feel about the future of education? What core questions do students need to ask before entering? How does Dylan assess the impact of the Thiel Fellowship today? Why does Dylan believe that everyone should be an intern? What did he take from that experience?
3.) How would Dylan describe his leadership style today? How has it changed over time? How did he get past micro-managing in the early days and learn to delegate? How does Dylan think about insecurity and vulnerability as a young leader today?
4.) What does Dylan foresee as the biggest challenges in Figma's transition from application to platform? How does Dylan evaluate the success of the Figma plugin ecosystem? How does Dylan think about the right cadence to roll out new products? How does Dylan think about catering to power users vs catering to the standard everyday user?
5.) What have been the most significant impacts of COVID for Figma? Why did Dylan choose to adopt a hybrid model for Figma in terms of working styles moving forward? What have been Dylan's biggest lessons of what it takes to attract the very best talent? What works? What does not?
Item's Mentioned In Today's Episode
Dylan's Favourite Book: Snow Crash
As always you can follow Harry and The Twenty Minute VC on Twitter here!
Likewise, you can follow Harry on Instagram here for mojito madness and all things 20VC.
SaaStr 364: Figma's Head of Sales, Kyle Parrish on Why Scaling From 0-1 In Sales Is So Damn Hard, The Biggest Lesson From Moving Sales Outside Core HQ & How To Create A Performance Led Culture
Kyle Parrish is the Head of Sales @ Figma, the company that helps teams create, test and ship better designs from start to finish. To date the company has raised over $132M in financing from some of the best in the business including Sequoia, a16z, Index, Greylock and Kleiner Perkins to name a few. As for Kyle, prior to Figma he spent over 5 years at Dropbox achieving some incredible milestones including launching and scaling the Austin, Texas office from 3 to 80 people and being responsible for growing Dropbox's leading partner ecosystem. Before Figma, Kyle spent close to 3 years as an Account Executive at ADP.
In Today's Episode We Discuss:
How Kyle made his way into the world of SaaS and sales and came to be Head of Sales at one of the fastest-growing companies in Figma?
Kyle was in charge of creating the Austin, Texas sales team @ Dropbox, what were some of his biggest lessons when it comes to moving sales outside of HQ? What worked? What did not work? At what stage does culture and process really start to break?
Why is it so hard moving from 0-1 in sales? How does Kyle advise founders when it comes to making your first sales hire? Does Kyle agree that it has to be the founder who develops the sales playbook? How does one create sales targets that are both ambitious but also achievable? What is the balance?
What does it take to create a performance led sales culture? Where do many people go wrong here? How is the best way for sales and product to work together? What can one do to proactively make those discussions with sales and product both frequent and productive?
Kyle's 60 Second SaaStr:
What is the hardest element of Kyle's role today with Figma?
What would Kyle most like to change in the world of SaaS today?
What does Kyle believe that most around him disbelieve?
Read the full transcript on our blog: https://www.saastr.com/saastr-podcast-364-with-figma-head-of-sales-kyle-parrish/
If you would like to find out more about the show and the guests presented, you can follow us on Twitter here:
Jason Lemkin
Harry Stebbings
SaaStr
Kyle Parrish
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E1040: Figma CEO & Co-Founder Dylan Field shares insights on crucial moments in Figma’s creation, overcoming SaaS burnout, active vs. passive user-pricing, getting Greylock & Sequoia to invest after they initially passed & more!
1:00 Jason intros Figma’s Dylan Field & Dylan explains why WebGL was crucial to Figma’s creation
7:09 Why ChromeOS is flourishing in schools
11:28 Who are Figma’s competitors & how do they compare
14:12 How does multiplayer mode work on Figma?
17:29 What does Figma charge, Dylan’s thoughts on charging for SaaS: bottom-up or top-down?
30:26 Is SaaS burnout real? Active-user pricing vs. Passive-user pricing & the importance of increasing pricing transparency
34:41 Becoming a Thiel Fellow, meeting Jason at Foo Camp, what happened between Mahalo & Google?
44:52 Jason goes deeper on what happened at Mahalo
46:33 Why Figma releases new features so quickly, the open-design theory & how it makes Figma anti-fragile
48:42 How is Figma handling COVID-19 on an internal & external basis
1:02:39 Figma’s funding history, why Index led the Seed, why Greylock initially passed & wound up investing
1:08:13 Why Kleiner Perkins invested & why Sequoia passed on the Series B & wound up investing, importance of getting to know your lead investors
1:11:05 How Dylan preps for & leads Figma’s board meetings
1:12:05 How working from home has given bosses better insights into who is actually making major impacts
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