Future Shape

Tony Fadell created the iPod, co-created the iPhone, and founded Nest (which he sold to Google for $3.2 billion). He’s co-authored over 300 patents, was part of the legendary team at General Magic, and wrote one of the most important and inspiring books for builders, called Build. In our in-depth conversation, we discuss: 1. The heated internal debates about whether the iPhone should have a physical keyboard 2. Why opinion-based decisions are essential for v1 products 3. Why marketing matters as much as the product itself, and how the iPod almost failed 4. Why voice will eventually become the primary interface with AI 5. Why cognitive surrender to AI is the biggest risk facing product builders today — Brought to you by: WorkOS—Make your app enterprise-ready, with SSO, SCIM, RBAC, and more: https://workos.com/lenny Vanta—Automate compliance, manage risk, and accelerate trust with AI: https://vanta.com/lenny — Episode transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/father-of-the-ipod-and-iphone-on — Archive of all Lenny's Podcast transcripts: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/yxi4s2w998p1gvtpu4193/AMdNPR8AOw0lMklwtnC0TrQ?rlkey=j06x0nipoti519e0xgm23zsn9&st=ahz0fj11&dl=0 — Where to find Tony Fadell: • X: https://x.com/tfadell • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonyfadell • Website: https://www.buildc.com — Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ — In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Introduction to Tony Fadell (02:23) The Blackberry vs. iPhone keyboard debate (07:50) Micromanaging vs. kind lies: what great products actually need (15:57) The Nest thermostat and smoke alarm story (21:22) How to decide what’s worth building: pain plus new technology (27:36) The three-generation rule: why nothing works the first time (34:20) The full customer journey: why marketing defines your product (40:53) The power of storytelling and the press-release-first approach (48:37) The evolution of product management and the builder role (50:27) Why AI-generated code creates brittle, unmaintainable products (58:00) Storytelling techniques (1:05:45) The next iPhone (1:13:15) Hardware is back (1:17:01) What Tony is most excited about (1:21:38) Working with Tony (1:25:36) Ethics, morals, and the responsibility of product builders (1:32:40) How to connect with Tony and Build Collective — References: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/father-of-the-ipod-and-iphone-on — Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com. — Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com

Tony Fadell

Engineer, Designer, and Investor

Future ShapeNest

Less screen time: it’s on everyone’s list of new year’s resolutions — or, at least, it’s on ours! Today, Kara and Nayeema discuss the addictiveness of tech and social media, before Kara dives into a conversation about the present and future of tech with a person who’s been around Silicon Valley for decades: engineer and designer Tony Fadell. The “father of the iPod,” as he’s known, helped bring the famous 5,000 songs to your pocket before helping design the iPhone, co-founding Nest ( selling it to Google for $3.2 billion) and writing the bestselling book, “Build: An Unorthodox Guide to Making Things Worth Making.” These days, he is bullish on climate tech and excited about the newest product he's designed: Stax, a crypto hard wallet.  Kara and Tony trade notes on Silicon Valley, including why Apple should think beyond four-wheel cars, why Google struggles to innovate (coddling employees is part of it) and how the next Fortune 500 companies will be the ones who help solve climate change. Oh, and they talk about the different types of assholes — and whether you need to be an one in order to build something great. You can find Kara and Nayeema on Twitter @karaswisher and @nayeema. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tony Fadell

Engineer, Designer, and Investor

Future ShapeNest

This episode was originally published on May 3rd, 2022. Tony Fadell was instrumental in the development of the iPod and iPhone at Apple and then co-founded Nest Labs, which kicked off the consumer smart home market with its smart thermostat in 2011. Tony sold Nest to Google for $3.2 billion in 2014 and eventually left Google. He now runs an investment company called Future Shape.  Links: Inside the Nest: iPod creator Tony Fadell wants to reinvent the thermostat General Magic - Trailer Inside Facebook’s metaverse for work Silicon Graphics Google is reorganizing and Sundar Pichai will become new CEO Fire drill: can Tony Fadell and Nest build a better smoke detector? Google purchases Nest for $3.2 billion Twitter accepts buyout, giving Elon Musk total control of the company Nest is rejoining Google to better compete with Amazon and Apple Apple Music Event 2005 - Motorola Rokr E1 / iTunes Phone Activision Blizzard hit with another sexual harassment lawsuit Nest buying video-monitoring startup Dropcam for $555 million What matters about Matter, the new smart home standard ZIGBEE ON MARS! Directory: Steve Jobs, CEO of Apple Andy Grove, former CEO of Intel Pat Gelsinger, current CEO of Intel Sundar Pichai, current CEO of Alphabet Elon Musk, CEO of Tesla, SpaceX, and The Boring Company Jeff Williams, COO of Apple Matt Rogers, Nest co-founder Jeff Robbin, VP of consumer applications at Apple Steve Hoteling, former CEO gesture recognition company Finger Works Jon Rubinstein, senior VP of the iPod division at Apple Steve Sakomen, hardware engineer and executive at Apple  Avie Tavanian, chief software technology officer at Apple Scott Forstall, senior VP of iOS software, Apple Jony Ive, chief design officer, Apple Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22817673 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tony Fadell

Engineer, Designer, and Investor

Future ShapeNest

Creative energy is the raw fuel of entrepreneurship, but if you fail to direct that energy effectively, you risk chasing multiple ideas and delivering none. Tony Fadell learned this lesson time and again through his journey to co-create the iPod, iPhone, and Nest. He shares how he struck the tricky balance of channeling his creative experimentation into world-changing products. Read a transcript of this episode: https://mastersofscale.com Subscribe to the Masters of Scale weekly newsletter: https://mastersofscale.com/subscribe See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Tony Fadell

Engineer, Designer, and Investor

Future ShapeNest

Tony Fadell, often referred to as the father of the iPod is one of the leading product thinkers of the last 30 years as one of the makers of some of the most revolutionary products in society from the iPhone and iPod to more recently founding Nest, creating the Nest Thermostat, leading to their $3.2BN acquisition by Google. Tony recently released Build, a masterclass taking 30 years of product and company building lessons and packaging them for you, check it out here. In Today's Episode with Tony Fadell: New York Times' 36 Questions of Love 1.) On reflection, what would Tony most like to change about his childhood? How did moving so much as a child change who Tony was as a person? How can parents instill that same grit and desire in their kids today? What does Tony think is the biggest problem with modern parenting? 2.) As a leader, should the company you are building be a family or a team? What does Tony believe are the 3 hats of being a great CEO? What is the biggest challenge in the transition between hats? Where does Tony see many founders make the biggest mistake? Which hat was Tony strongest with? What was he weakest with? 3.) How to solve the loneliness of being a solo founder? Why does Tony believe that everyone needs a co-founder? Why does Tony not like to invest in teams with a solo founder or more than 4 founders? For Tony, what is the ideal composition of that founding team? How does he test for these skills and traits pre-investing? 4.) How to think differently in the face of adversity? Tony has made bold bets when everyone says he is crazy, how does he not question himself and remain strong in the face of criticism? How does Tony know when to change his mind? When to accept that the bold idea was not right? Is Tony concerned in the face of macro challenges today, investment and commitment to climate change will be cut heavily?

Tony Fadell

Engineer, Designer, and Investor

Future ShapeNest

Scott Belsky is an entrepreneur, master of product reviews, author, investor, and currently serves as Adobe's Chief Product Officer and Executive Vice President, Creative Cloud. Tony Fadell, often referred to as the father of the iPod is one of the leading product thinkers of the last 30 years as one of the makers of some of the most game-changing products in society from the iPhone and iPod to more recently founding Nest. Lenny Rachitsky is one of the OGs of product, having spent over 7 years at Airbnb as a product lead he left to start his newsletter, find it here. Kayvon Beykpour is one of the most prominent product leaders of the last decade. For the last 7 years, Kayvon has been at Twitter where he led all of the teams across Product, Engineering, Design, Research and Customer Service & Operations. Aparna Chennapragada is Chief Product Officer @ Robinhood, the company revolutionising consumer finance with commission-free investing. In Today's Episode Breaking Down Product Reviews We Discuss: 1.) What makes a truly great product review? 2.) What are the biggest mistakes that product leaders make when leading product reviews? 3.) Who should be invited to the product review? How does this change with scale? How does this change in a world of remote work and Zoom? 4.) Who should set the agenda for the product review? 5.) How can leaders assign accountability and ensure that the follow-ups from product reviews are executed on? 6.) How can leaders ensure that they do not dominate product reviews with the weight of their words? How can they give designers and devs the space to share their thoughts without being judged?

Scott Belsky

Chief Product Officer

AdobeBenchmarkBehance

Tony Fadell

Engineer, Designer, and Investor

Future ShapeNest

Lenny Rachitsky

Writer and Investor

Lenny's Newsletter

Kayvon Beykpour

Former Head of Product

TwitterMacroscope

Tony Fadell is an engineer and designer, co-creator of the iPod, iPhone, Nest Thermostat, and author of the new book Build: An Unorthodox Guide to Making Things Worth Making. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors: – Mailgun: https://lexfridman.com/mailgun – Scale: https://scale.com/lex – NetSuite: http://netsuite.com/lex to get free product tour – SimpliSafe: https://simplisafe.com/lex and use code LEX – Eight Sleep: https://www.eightsleep.com/lex and use code LEX to get special savings EPISODE LINKS: Tony’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/tfadell Tony’s Website: https://tonyfadell.com Build (book): https://amzn.to/3xSReee Story (book): https://amzn.to/3Olzqhv PODCAST INFO: Podcast website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8 RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/ YouTube Full Episodes: https://youtube.com/lexfridman YouTube Clips: https://youtube.com/lexclips SUPPORT & CONNECT: – Check out the sponsors above, it’s the best way to support this podcast – Support on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/lexfridman – Twitter: https://twitter.com/lexfridman – Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lexfridman – LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lexfridman – Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lexfridman – Medium: https://medium.com/@lexfridman OUTLINE: Here’s the timestamps for the episode. On some podcast players you should be able to click the timestamp to jump to that time. (00:00) – Introduction (07:16) – Memories (14:13) – Apple II (22:51) – First business (26:55) – iPod (50:56) – Ideas (55:09) – Marketing (1:05:26) – PR and Comms (1:15:06) – Design (1:20:03) – Experts (1:26:04) – Steve Jobs (2:09:43) – Jony Ive (2:16:55) – Nest (2:27:13) – Advice for young people (2:31:30) – Startup (2:36:25) – Money (2:41:33) – Work-Life Balance (2:44:11) – Darkest moment (2:49:48) – Meaning of life

Tony Fadell

Engineer, Designer, and Investor

Future ShapeNest

Tony Fadell, often referred to as the father of the iPod is one of the leading product thinkers of the last 30 years as one of the makers of some of the most game-changing products in society from the iPhone and iPod to more recently founding Nest, creating the Nest Thermostat, leading to their $3.2BN acquisition by Google. Tony recently released Build, this is a masterclass taking 30 years of product and company building lessons and packaging them for you, check it out here. In Today's Episode with Tony Fadell: 1.) Everything Great Starts Small: How did Tony make his way into the world of product in the early days? What were his biggest takeaways from the massive flop of General Magic? How did Tony come to Apple and what were the early creation days of iPod and iPhone? 2.) Data and Brand: Does Tony believe great product building is art or science? When should teams listen to their gut vs the data? When was a time that Tony listened to his gut? When was a time Tony listened to the data? How did each situation evolve and turn out? How does Tony think about creating a truly special first mile experience? Where do so many companies go wrong in the first mile today? How does Tony balance between business decisions (COGs etc) and product decisions that will delight customers? 3.) Lessons from Steve Jobs on Product Marketing: How does Tony define great product management? Why do so many people get it wrong? What are Tony's biggest lessons from working with Steve Jobs on what makes great product marketing? Where does Tony see so many companies make the biggest mistakes when it comes to messaging? What is the difference between messaging, marketing and communications? 4.) Hiring Product Teams: What are the clearest signals of the best product talent when interviewing them? What questions does Tony always ask product people to determine quality? How do great product teams remain upbeat when launches fail and remain modest when they are wildly successful? 5.) Apple Watch, iPod and Apple HiFi: Why was the product messaging for the Apple Watch wrong in the early days? How did it change? Why was the iPod a bad business until the 3rd Generation? What changed? Why did the Apple HiFi fail? How did that impact Tony's mindset? Mentioned in Today's Episode with Tony Fadell: Tony's Favourite Book: Only the Paranoid Survive

Tony Fadell

Engineer, Designer, and Investor

Future ShapeNest

Tony Fadell was instrumental in the development of the iPod and iPhone at Apple and then co-founded Nest Labs, which kicked off the consumer smart home market with its smart thermostat in 2011. Tony sold Nest to Google for $3.2 billion in 2014 and eventually left Google. He now runs an investment company called Future Shape.  Links: Inside the Nest: iPod creator Tony Fadell wants to reinvent the thermostat General Magic - Trailer Inside Facebook’s metaverse for work Silicon Graphics Google is reorganizing and Sundar Pichai will become new CEO Fire drill: can Tony Fadell and Nest build a better smoke detector? Google purchases Nest for $3.2 billion Twitter accepts buyout, giving Elon Musk total control of the company Nest is rejoining Google to better compete with Amazon and Apple Apple Music Event 2005 - Motorola Rokr E1 / iTunes Phone Activision Blizzard hit with another sexual harassment lawsuit Nest buying video-monitoring startup Dropcam for $555 million What matters about Matter, the new smart home standard ZIGBEE ON MARS! Directory: Steve Jobs, CEO of Apple Andy Grove, former CEO of Intel Pat Gelsinger, current CEO of Intel Sundar Pichai, current CEO of Alphabet Elon Musk, CEO of Tesla, SpaceX, and The Boring Company Jeff Williams, COO of Apple Matt Rogers, Nest co-founder Jeff Robbin, VP of consumer applications at Apple Steve Hoteling, former CEO gesture recognition company Finger Works Jon Rubinstein, senior VP of the iPod division at Apple Steve Sakomen, hardware engineer and executive at Apple  Avie Tavanian, chief software technology officer at Apple Scott Forstall, senior VP of iOS software, Apple Jony Ive, chief design officer, Apple Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22817673 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tony Fadell

Engineer, Designer, and Investor

Future ShapeNest

Brought to you by LinkedIn Marketing Solutions marketing platform with ~770M users, LMNT electrolyte supplement, and Eight Sleep’s Pod Pro Cover sleeping solution for dynamic cooling and heating. More on all three below. Tony Fadell (@tfadell) is an active investor and entrepreneur with a 30+ year history of founding companies and designing products that profoundly improve people’s lives. As the principal at Future Shape, a global investment and advisory firm coaching engineers and scientists working on foundational deep technology, he is continuing to help bring technology out of the lab and into our lives. Currently, Future Shape is coaching 200+ startups innovating game-changing technologies. Tony began his career in Silicon Valley at General Magic, the most influential startup nobody has ever heard of. He is the founder and former CEO of Nest, the company that pioneered the “Internet of Things” and created the Nest Learning Thermostat. Tony was the SVP of Apple’s iPod Division and led the team that created the first 18 generations of the iPod and the first three generations of the iPhone. Throughout his career, Tony has authored more than 300 patents. In May 2016, TIME named the Nest Learning Thermostat, the iPod, and the iPhone as three of the “50 Most Influential Gadgets of All Time.” His new book is Build: An Unorthodox Guide to Making Things Worth Making. Please enjoy! This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn Marketing Solutions, the go-to tool for B2B marketers and advertisers who want to drive brand awareness, generate leads, or build long-term relationships that result in real business impact. With a community of more than 770 million professionals, LinkedIn is gigantic, but it can be hyper-specific. You have access to a diverse group of people all searching for things they need to grow professionally. LinkedIn has the marketing tools to help you target your customers with precision, right down to job title, company name, industry, etc. To redeem your free $100 LinkedIn ad credit and launch your first campaign, go to LinkedIn.com/TFS! * This episode is also brought to you by Eight Sleep! Eight Sleep’s Pod Pro Cover is the easiest and fastest way to sleep at the perfect temperature. It pairs dynamic cooling and heating with biometric tracking to offer the most advanced (and user-friendly) solution on the market. Simply add the Pod Pro Cover to your current mattress and start sleeping as cool as 55°F or as hot as 110°F. It also splits your bed in half, so your partner can choose a totally different temperature. And now, my dear listeners—that’s you—can get $250 off the Pod Pro Cover. Simply go to EightSleep.com/Tim or use code TIM at checkout. * This episode is also brought to you by LMNT! What is LMNT? It’s a delicious, sugar-free electrolyte drink mix. I’ve stocked up on boxes and boxes of this and usually use it 1–2 times per day. LMNT is formulated to help anyone with their electrolyte needs and perfectly suited to folks following a keto, low-carb, or Paleo diet. If you are on a low-carb diet or fasting, electrolytes play a key role in relieving hunger, cramps, headaches, tiredness, and dizziness. LMNT came up with a very special offer for you, my dear listeners. For a limited time, you can claim a free LMNT Sample Pack—you only cover the cost of shipping. For US customers, this means you can receive an 8-count sample pack for only $5. Simply go to DrinkLMNT.com/Tim to claim your free 8-count sample pack. * How did Tony overcome his lack of patience long enough to write Build: An Unorthodox Guide to Making Things Worth Making? [07:38] What did Tony learn from Steve Jobs about taking vacations, and why did he lead the “Killing Yourself for Work” chapter in Build with this story? [12:30] As a CEO, what did Tony accomplish in his downtime? [21:03] Tony shares his thoughts on managing big jobs with small teams, and how to chalk up wins that best alleviate burnout. [24:07] The best practices Tony has found for efficiently dividing labor among the members of a small team. [28:40] What do the headcount and org chart look like within Future Shape? [36:20] How does Future Shape differ from a VC firm, and what is its mission? Why was the COVID pandemic minimally disruptive to the way the company handles meetings and does business? [39:17] What is programmable electrification, and how is Future Shape involved in its development? [44:50] “The story doesn’t exist to sell your product. It’s there to help you define it.” Tony shares how this concept played into the creation of Build, and what Build is intended to provide to its readership. [51:00] How did Steve Jobs use story to define projects and products at Apple? [59:47] Tony admits that plenty of people think he’s an asshole. But what differentiates an acceptable asshole from an unacceptable asshole? [1:01:43] In our last conversation, Tony drove home the necessity of finding creative ways to cope with the world’s overabundance of plastics. What progress has been made on this front since then, and what other materials can be reclaimed from the things we throw away regularly? [1:06:12] How does Tony’s small team leverage its time and resources to focus on solving the problems that will have the largest impact? [1:09:17] Underestimated targets related to climate change that Tony thinks deserve more attention. [1:13:16] Tony’s thoughts on the efficacy of carbon removal, and companies that are aiming to do it right. [1:17:45] How will geopolitics figure into the supply chain for an electron-based economy? [1:24:28] How can we cultivate optimism in our younger generations when the constant barrage of doom and gloom from the media is generating higher-than-ever levels of apathy and passivism in the populace? What can we do to consume a healthier media diet? [1:30:34] Audience asks and parting thoughts. [1:37:58] * For show notes and past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show, please visit tim.blog/podcast. For deals from sponsors of The Tim Ferriss Show, please visit tim.blog/podcast-sponsors. Sign up for Tim’s email newsletter (5-Bullet Friday) at tim.blog/friday. For transcripts of episodes, go to tim.blog/transcripts. Discover Tim’s books: tim.blog/books. Follow Tim: Twitter: twitter.com/tferriss Instagram: instagram.com/timferriss YouTube: youtube.com/timferriss Facebook: facebook.com/timferriss LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/timferriss Past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show include Jerry Seinfeld, Hugh Jackman, Dr. Jane Goodall, LeBron James, Kevin Hart, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Jamie Foxx, Matthew McConaughey, Esther Perel, Elizabeth Gilbert, Terry Crews, Sia, Yuval Noah Harari, Malcolm Gladwell, Madeleine Albright, Cheryl Strayed, Jim Collins, Mary Karr, Maria Popova, Sam Harris, Michael Phelps, Bob Iger, Edward Norton, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Neil Strauss, Ken Burns, Maria Sharapova, Marc Andreessen, Neil Gaiman, Neil de Grasse Tyson, Jocko Willink, Daniel Ek, Kelly Slater, Dr. Peter Attia, Seth Godin, Howard Marks, Dr. Brené Brown, Eric Schmidt, Michael Lewis, Joe Gebbia, Michael Pollan, Dr. Jordan Peterson, Vince Vaughn, Brian Koppelman, Ramit Sethi, Dax Shepard, Tony Robbins, Jim Dethmer, Dan Harris, Ray Dalio, Naval Ravikant, Vitalik Buterin, Elizabeth Lesser, Amanda Palmer, Katie Haun, Sir Richard Branson, Chuck Palahniuk, Arianna Huffington, Reid Hoffman, Bill Burr, Whitney Cummings, Rick Rubin, Dr. Vivek Murthy, Darren Aronofsky, and many more. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Tony Fadell

Engineer, Designer, and Investor

Future ShapeNest

Tony Fadell, often referred to as "the father of the iPod," is currently Principal @ Future Shape, a global investment and advisory firm coaching engineers and scientists working on foundational deep technology. Prior to Future Shape, Tony was the Founder & CEO @ Nest Labs, the company was ultimately acquired by Google for a reported $3.2Bn. Before Nest, Tony spent an incredible 9 years at Apple Inc, where, as SVP of Apple's iPod division, he led the team that created the first 18 generations of the iPod and the first three generations of the iPhone. Fun facts, Tony has filed more than 300 patents for his work and is also a prolific angel investor having invested in the likes of mmhmm and Nothing to name a few. In Today's Episode With Tony Fadell You Will Learn: I. The building blocks of an entrepreneur What was the moment that Tony realised that he wanted to be an entrepreneur? "I got my first money when I was in third grade, because I had an egg route. We'd go get eggs from the farmer, and I'd load them in my wagon. Then my younger brother and I would go door to door around the neighborhood, and we'd sell eggs. And that was an every week or every other week situation. And I got money in my hands. And I was like, Oh my God, I can do whatever I want with that money – I don't have to ask anybody, I can just do it. And so that was the level of freedom that, especially when you're young, feels really cool. And then as I got older, I started to buy Atari video game cartridges for my 2600 (yes, I'm that old!), and that was really, really fun too." What was the biggest lesson that Tony learned from his father on sales and building trusted relationships? "And he said, very clearly, Look, this is a relationship. If I make this person successful, he's gonna want to come back to me over, and over, and over. But if I sell him something and it doesn't sell, and he has to discount and he loses money, he's not going to come back. Even if I don't have the right product, I'll tell him where to go to get the right product they're looking for, or if they're picking the wrong one, I'll tell them, here's the right one, because my job is to make them successful. Because if they're successful, they'll come back to me year after year after year. And even when we have a down year, they're going to trust me, and they're going to come back." II. Reflections on experience How does Tony Fadell think about and assess his own relationship to money? How has it changed over the years? "So my relationship to money now is that it's just a means to make change happen. And so literally, for me, I can just have a backpack, my computer, my phone, a couple of roller bags with my clothes. And that's enough to live life with my family. I don't need all this other stuff. COVID taught me that even further." How does Tony determine true friendships vs transactional relationships? "If it's not a reference – if it's not coming from somebody saying, Hey, you really need to meet this person – I take everything with a grain of salt. With anybody who comes to me cold, I think they probably want something. I try to find that out through the network, Do you know this person? What are they about?" III. Tony Fadell on becoming a mentor Why does Tony Fadell believe that founders have to be "coachable"? "I think anybody who's trying to do something that the world has never seen before, or trying to work with people who are, they'd better be coachable. Because you're going to be so narrowly focused, you're going to be so heads down, you're going to be so on a mission, that sometimes you'll be blinded, and you'll need somebody to come from left field and go, Wait a second, dude, you're not thinking about this right." What are the core signs that an individual is coachable? Trustworthiness 2. Willingness to listen What does Tony believe is the right way to deliver advice without fluff? "First, it's about trust. You have to be able to have a trusted relationship with somebody. And second, there are different ways of delivering a message. You can deliver a message the first time in an iron-fist-in-a-velvet-glove kind of way. But sometimes the velvet glove is going to come off." How do people make mistakes when giving advice? "I'm in too many board meetings; we have over 200 investments. I've seen all kinds of different CEOs and different boards, where the investors don't want to feel like they're going to get a bad rep because the CEO is going to say something if they say something negative." What does Tony Fadell advise founders when it comes to finding mentors? "Usually, a really great mentor is going to be highly selective. They're going to be like, I don't want to work with you. They only have so much time for people who are actually coachable." What are the characteristics of the best mentors? "You're gonna have tough love with them, you're gonna say things that they don't want to hear, you're not going to be liked all the time. Hopefully, one day, you'll be respected if not liked. And that's what it means to be a mentor." IV. Changing perceptions How does Tony assess his own relationship to self-doubt? "Everyone goes through imposter syndrome. Everyone does. We all have gone through it, I go through it. Because you know what, when you're doing stuff you've never done before, and you're changing the world, no one else has done it either. No one else has done it either. That means it's okay. And I always say, if you don't have butterflies in your stomach each day, you're either not paying attention, or you're not pushing hard enough and taking enough risk." What are Tony's views on failure? "Now, there's taking stupid risks versus risk mitigation and taking calculated risks. But you should always be living on the edge of pushing yourself because that's where the growth is, that's where the change is happening." Does one learn more from success than from failure? "How we do and change the world is through the same method. We go do, and then we fail, and then we learn from that, and then we do again." What does Tony mean when he says, "do, fail, learn." "Look, it's do, fail, learn; do, fail, learn. There's no such thing as learn and then you're able to do. No, no, no. When you really learn in life is after you've tried to do it." What is the right way for entrepreneurs to present their boldest of ambitions? "Look at Elon now. If he was pitching what he's doing now 15 years ago, people would go, No way! A few people, like Jurvetson and others, said, Yeah, sure, okay, great. But very few people would get behind that huge boldness." "So what they do is – and this is what I've had to do – they start and just pitch that simple 'What's the next three to four years look like?' and never tell anybody about the big picture. Because you scare most people off." How do investors need to change how they think about ambition and upside? 5.) Why does Tony believe the first trillionaire will originate from the climate change space? Why is the majority of plastics recycling total BS today? Why does Tony believe we need to fundamentally transform our economies? How do funding markets need to change to fund this structural reshaping of society?

Tony Fadell

Engineer, Designer, and Investor

Future ShapeNest

Tony Fadell — On Building the iPod, iPhone, Nest, and a Life of Curiosity | Brought to you by SuperFat and Four Sigmatic. “Get bored. Just put away all of your things. Maybe go clean up the garage or whatever it is. Right? Through that, you're going to start to think differently. You're going to act slightly differently and your mind might open up to other sources of inspiration, other problems...” — Tony Fadell Tony Fadell (@tfadell), sometimes called "the father of the iPod," is an active investor and entrepreneur with a 30+ year history of founding companies and designing products that profoundly improve people's lives. As the Principal at Future Shape, a global investment and advisory firm coaching engineers and scientists working on foundational deep technology, he is continuing to help bring technology out of the lab and into our lives. Currently, Future Shape is coaching 200+ startups innovating game-changing technologies. Tony founded Nest Labs, Inc. in 2010 and served as its Chief Executive Officer until his resignation in 2016. He joined Apple Computer Inc. in 2001 and, as the SVP of Apple's iPod division, led the team that created the first 18 generations of the iPod and the first three generations of the iPhone. Tony founded the Mobile Computing Group at Philips Electronics and served as its Chief Technology Officer and Director of Engineering 1995 to 1998, responsible for all aspects of business and product development, including the award-winning Philips Velo and Nino PDAs. From 1998 to 1999, he served as Vice President for Philips Strategy & Venture focused on building out its digital media strategy and investment portfolio. From 1992 to 1995, he served as a Hardware and Software Architect at General Magic, which created the precursor to the iPhone 15 years earlier. Tony has filed more than 300 patents for his work. In May 2016, Time named the Nest Learning Thermostat, the iPod, and the iPhone three of the "50 Most Influential Gadgets of All Time." Tony graduated with a BS degree in Computer Engineering from the University of Michigan in 1991. Please enjoy! This episode is also brought to you by SuperFat Nut Butters. These little beauties are great. I’ve been using them as quick mini-breakfasts and on-the-go fuel for a few months now. They’re 200–300 calories each, depending on which ingredient cocktail you eat (MCT, protein, macadamia, caffeine, etc.); 3–5g of net carbs per pouch; keto- and Paleo-friendly; and easy to throw in a backpack or pocket. The first time I tried SuperFat, I finished the entire box in a few days, so watch your portion control. I suggest ordering the Variety Box and you can try all 5 SuperFat flavors in one box, and it has 2 pouches of each flavor. Get 15% off your order by going to SuperFat.com/tim. This podcast is also brought to you by Four Sigmatic. I reached out to these Finnish entrepreneurs after a very talented acrobat introduced me to one of their products, which blew my mind (in the best way possible). It is mushroom coffee featuring Lion's Mane. It tastes like coffee, but there are only 40 milligrams of caffeine, so it has less than half of what you would find in a regular cup of coffee. I do not get any jitters, acid reflux, or any type of stomach burn. It put me on fire for an entire day, and I only had half of the packet. You can try it right now by going to foursigmatic.com/tim and using the code Tim to get 20 percent off your first order. If you are in the experimental mindset, I do not think you'll be disappointed. *** If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts/iTunes? It takes less than 60 seconds, and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. For show notes and past guests, please visit tim.blog/podcast. 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Tony Fadell

Engineer, Designer, and Investor

Future ShapeNest