Building the Physical AI Stack | Travis Kalanick on TBPN
Travis Kalanick joins TBPN to discuss Atoms, his vision for industrial AI, and why he believes the biggest opportunities in AI lie beyond software.
He explains how Atoms is bringing autonomy to mining, logistics, and food production, why robotics will reshape physical industries, and how lower costs and greater automation could unlock entirely new economic opportunities. Travis also reflects on raising $1.7 billion, building in stealth, regulation, hiring, and what he's learned since Uber.
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Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures.
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Travis Kalanick Is Back | Building the Future of Industrial AI
Travis Kalanick, Ben Horowitz, and Erik Torenberg reunite to reflect on Uber's early days, the investment that almost happened, and why Kalanick believes the next great technology opportunity lies beyond software.
They discuss the lessons of building Uber, the value of founder-led companies, and why Kalanick spent nearly eight years quietly building Atoms before stepping back into the spotlight.
The conversation explores industrial AI, robotics, autonomy, mining, food production, and Kalanick's vision for digitizing the physical world, where software, manufacturing, real estate, and transportation come together to transform entire industries.
Resources:
Follow Travis Kalanick on X: https://x.com/travisk
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Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures.
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Socialists Sweep NYC, China Catches Up in Coding, AI Memory Crunch, Micron's Blowout Quarter
(0:00) Gavin Baker and Travis Kalanick join the show!
(1:05) Mamdani-endorsed socialists sweep congressional primaries in NYC
(22:51) Future of the Democratic Party, the Israel issue, social media bans
(45:12) China's open-source AI catch up, distillation, OpenAI's new chip
(1:01:46) Micron smashes earnings, AI's memory crunch hitting Apple and consumer hardware
(1:10:17) The math behind distributed compute and datacenters in space
(1:27:22) IPO update: Anthropic at $3T, SpaceX float, Cerebras drops after breaking deal price
Follow Gavin:
https://x.com/GavinSBaker
Follow Travis:
https://x.com/travisk
Apply for Summit 2026:
https://allin.com/events
Follow the besties:
https://x.com/chamath
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Follow on X:
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https://www.linkedin.com/company/allinpod
Intro Music Credit:
https://rb.gy/tppkzl
https://x.com/yung_spielburg
Intro Video Credit:
https://x.com/TheZachEffect
Referenced in the show:
https://abcnews.com/Politics/clean-sweep-3-candidates-endorsed-mamdani-win-primaries/story?id=134152579
https://polymarket.com/event/mamdani-team-sweeps-primaries-20260618232357710
https://x.com/thestustustudio/status/2067356255916536120
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2026-election/espaillat-ny-house-primary-loss-district-13-avila-chevalier-rcna351127
https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/2069645066252034288
https://x.com/america/status/2069622732279402804
https://x.com/realmaalouf/status/2069433391162798337
https://x.com/JoshBlockDC/status/2070108811851882691
https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/2069776474429624684
https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/2068829255786803368
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2026/04/07/negative-views-of-israel-netanyahu-continue-to-rise-among-americans-especially-young-people
https://x.com/PirateWires/status/2069146641266094417
https://www.wsj.com/economy/the-data-center-boom-is-sparking-a-third-wave-of-inflation-926adc6e
https://x.com/jietang/status/2067580270078030088
OpenAI's Identity Crisis, Datacenter Wars, Market Up on Iran News, Mamdani's First Tax, Swalwell Out
(0:00) Bestie intros: Travis Kalanick joins the show!
(0:42) Mamdani taxes the rich: new pied-à-terre tax coming to NYC
(11:23) OpenAI's identity crisis: Leaked memo, enterprise pivot, Anhropic valuation flip (27:28) Big Tech's compute dominance: How will this impact frontier labs?
(33:53) Allbirds stock up over 400% on AI pivot, and what's behind the datacenter disaster?
(54:37) The Price is Wrong: Name That Overvalued Startup ROUND 1
(59:23) Eric Swalwell drops out of CA governor race and resigns from Congress: Who knew what and when? Impact of the Democratic Machine
(1:10:31) State of the market: Confusing indicators, pricing in Iran peace, AI's mixed results, inflated valuations
(1:26:31) The Price is Wrong: Name That Overvalued Startup ROUND 2
Apply for Summit 2026:
https://allin.com/events
Follow Travis:
https://x.com/travisk
Follow the besties:
https://x.com/chamath
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https://x.com/DavidSacks
https://x.com/friedberg
Follow on X:
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Follow on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/theallinpod
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https://www.tiktok.com/@theallinpod
Follow on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/company/allinpod
Intro Music Credit:
https://rb.gy/tppkzl
https://x.com/yung_spielburg
Intro Video Credit:
https://x.com/TheZachEffect
Referenced in the show:
https://www.texastribune.org/2025/01/22/austin-texas-rents-falling
https://www.cnbc.com/2026/04/13/openai-touts-amazon-alliance-in-memo-microsoft-limited-our-ability.html
https://polymarket.com/event/gpt-5pt5-released-on
https://www.ft.com/content/04ac7917-940b-4606-be5f-9eb895a7d982
https://x.com/RihardJarc/status/2044725910566220095
https://x.com/RoundtableSpace/status/2041897604708233650
https://x.com/chamath/status/2043811625967530056
https://x.com/pmarca/status/2042742413098450998
https://www.reuters.com/business/allbirds-shares-jump-over-400-plans-pivot-ai-sneakers-2026-04-15
https://www.wsj.com/business/data-centers-are-a-gold-rush-for-construction-workers-6e3c5ce0
https://x.com/zerohedge/status/2043520934930239860
https://x.com/APompliano/status/2041946174677217733
https://x.com/IAPolls2022/status/2041589297489305717
https://www.tmz.com/2026/04/13/tmzdc-staff-starts-today
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/eric-swalwell-drops-bid-california-governor-sexual-misconduct-allegati-rcna277009
https://x.com/great_martis/status/2044454944808571015
https://x.com/GlobalMktObserv/status/2044059352466690501
https://x.com/mattcerminaro/status/2044546097230626819
https://www.politico.com/news/2026/04/13/influencers-allegations-eric-swalwell-00869517
https://x.com/JoeBiden/status/1815080881981190320
https://x.com/TimRunsHisMouth/status/1815088017847333273
https://www.npr.org/2024/07/08/nx-s1-5032737/biden-tells-democrats-stop-speculation
Travis Kalanick & Michael Dell Live from Austin, Texas
(0:00) Travis Kalanick: Officially exiting stealth mode, what he's been working on
(5:52) How to automate the physical world, markets to go after
(11:00) Return to self-driving: Tesla, Waymo, and the autonomous race
(16:17) Leaving Los Angeles for Austin, the decline of truth and justice in California
(25:51) Actuators, robot hands, "Capital as a weapon," Middle East SWF impacted by Iran War
(36:00) Michael Dell: Dorm room to $140B in annual revenue, why Texas attracts founders
(43:46) Dell's $50B AI infrastructure bet
(1:03:50) Invest America: Michael Dell's $6.25B gift - A 401k from birth for 25M kids
This podcast was recorded LIVE at Arena Hall in Austin, Texas.
Thanks to our partners for making this event possible!:
EY:
Austin vibes meet AI innovation. Thanks to EY for co‑hosting with us at #SXSW.
Discover what executives are saying about AI transformation in the latest AI Pulse Survey.
https://ey.com/en_us/insights/emerging-technologies/pulse-ai-survey
Forge Global:
We're proud to highlight our partners at Forge Global, who are helping the world's most innovative private companies and their teams gain #liquidcourage on their terms.
Learn more here: https://forgeglobal.com/who-we-serve/private-companies/
De'Longhi
Athena
Polymarket
Hypergrowth startups: Uber and CloudKitchens with Charles-Axel Dein
Brought to You By:
• Statsig — The unified platform for flags, analytics, experiments, and more. Statsig built a complete set of data tools that allow engineering teams to measure the impact of their work. This toolkit is SO valuable to so many teams, that OpenAI - who was a huge user of Statsig - decided to acquire the company, the news announced last week. Talk about validation! Check out Statsig.
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—
What does it take to do well at a hyper-growth company? In this episode of The Pragmatic Engineer, I sit down with Charles-Axel Dein, one of the first engineers at Uber, who later hired me there. Since then, he’s gone on to work at CloudKitchens. He’s also been maintaining the popular Professional programming reading list GitHub repo for 15 years, where he collects articles that made him a better programmer.
In our conversation, we dig into what it’s really like to work inside companies that grow rapidly in scale and headcount. Charles shares what he’s learned about personal productivity, project management, incidents, interviewing, plus how to build flexible skills that hold up in fast-moving environments.
Jump to interesting parts:
• 10:41 – the reality of working inside a hyperscale company
• 41:10 – the traits of high-performing engineers
• 1:03:31 – Charles’ advice for getting hired in today’s job market
We also discuss:
• How to spot the signs of hypergrowth (and when it’s slowing down)
• What sets high-performing engineers apart beyond shipping
• Charles’s personal productivity tips, favorite reads, and how he uses reading to uplevel his skills
• Strategic tips for building your resume and interviewing
• How imposter syndrome is normal, and how leaning into it helps you grow
• And much more!
If you’re at a fast-growing company, considering joining one, or looking to land your next role, you won’t want to miss this practical advice on hiring, interviewing, productivity, leadership, and career growth.
—
Timestamps
(00:00) Intro
(04:04) Early days at Uber as engineer #20
(08:12) CloudKitchens’ similarities with Uber
(10:41) The reality of working at a hyperscale company
(19:05) Tenancies and how Uber deployed new features
(22:14) How CloudKitchens handles incidents
(26:57) Hiring during fast-growth
(34:09) Avoiding burnout
(38:55) The popular Professional programming reading list repo
(41:10) The traits of high-performing engineers
(53:22) Project management tactics
(1:03:31) How to get hired as a software engineer
(1:12:26) How AI is changing hiring
(1:19:26) Unexpected ways to thrive in fast-paced environments
(1:20:45) Dealing with imposter syndrome
(1:22:48) Book recommendations
(1:27:26) The problem with survival bias
(1:32:44) AI’s impact on software development
(1:42:28) Rapid fire round
—
The Pragmatic Engineer deepdives relevant for this episode:
• Software engineers leading projects
• The Platform and Program split at Uber
• Inside Uber’s move to the Cloud
• How Uber built its observability platform
• From Software Engineer to AI Engineer – with Janvi Kalra
—
Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@pragmaticengineer.com.
Get full access to The Pragmatic Engineer at newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/subscribe
Grok 4 Wows, The Bitter Lesson, Elon's Third Party, AI Browsers, SCOTUS backs POTUS on RIFs
(0:00) The Besties welcome Travis Kalanick and Keith Rabois!
(3:02) Travis on Pony.ai / Uber rumors and the state of Cloud Kitchens
(18:51) xAI launches Grok 4, learning "The Bitter Lesson" in AI
(40:36) How Grok can catch ChatGPT in usage, OpenAI's product excellence
(46:27) Perplexity and OpenAI building AI-native browsers and taking on Chrome
(58:01) Elon's "America Party": is now the right time for a third party, and could he make an impact in 2026?
(1:13:12) SCOTUS backs Trump over federal government RIF plans
Follow Keith:
https://x.com/rabois
Follow Travis:
https://x.com/travisk
Get The Besties All-In Tequila:
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Join us at the All-In Summit:
https://allin.com/summit
Summit scholarship application:
http://bit.ly/4kyZqFJ
Follow the besties:
https://x.com/chamath
https://x.com/Jason
https://x.com/DavidSacks
https://x.com/friedberg
Follow on X:
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Follow on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/theallinpod
Follow on TikTok:
https://www.tiktok.com/@theallinpod
Follow on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/company/allinpod
Intro Music Credit:
https://rb.gy/tppkzl
https://x.com/yung_spielburg
Intro Video Credit:
https://x.com/TheZachEffect
Referenced in the show:
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/26/technology/uber-travis-kalanick-self-driving-car-deal.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZW5fJikPmfM
https://grok.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wTA90BYo30
https://techcrunch.com/2025/01/08/elon-musk-agrees-that-weve-exhausted-ai-training-data
https://x.com/ArtificialAnlys/status/1943166841150644622
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1943192643439337753
http://www.incompleteideas.net/IncIdeas/BitterLesson.html
https://x.com/chamath/status/1943177837956968499
https://techcrunch.com/2025/07/09/perplexity-launches-comet-an-ai-powered-web-browser
https://x.com/perplexity_ai/status/1942969263305671143
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1941584569523732930
https://polymarket.com/event/will-elon-register-the-america-party-by
https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/presidential-approval/highslows
https://news.gallup.com/poll/651278/support-third-political-party-dips.aspx
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/implementing-the-presidents-department-of-government-efficiency-workforce-optimization-initiative
https://www.scotusblog.com/2025/07/supreme-court-allows-trump-administration-to-implement-plans-to-significantly-reduce-the-federal-workforce
https://www.afge.org/article/summary-of-afge-lawsuits-against-trump--how-litigation-works
https://cei.org/publication/10kc-2025-numbers-of-rules
https://www.netflix.com/tudum/articles/american-manhunt-osama-bin-laden-release-date-news
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
(0:00) The Besties intro Travis Kalanick!
(2:11) Travis breaks down the future of food and the state of CloudKitchens
(13:34) Sacks breaks in!
(15:38) DeepSeek panic: What's real, training innovation, China, impact on markets and the AI industry
(50:14) US vs China in AI, the Singapore backdoor
(1:01:51) OpenAI reportedly in talks to raise ~$40B with Masa as the lead investor
(1:10:37) DOGE's first 10 days
(1:25:13) Future of Self Driving: Uber, Waymo, Tesla
(1:38:04) Fed holds rates steady, how DOGE can impact rate cuts
(1:44:17) Fatal DC plane crash
Follow Travis:
https://x.com/travisk
Follow the besties:
https://x.com/chamath
https://x.com/Jason
https://x.com/DavidSacks
https://x.com/friedberg
Follow on X:
https://x.com/theallinpod
Follow on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/theallinpod
Follow on TikTok:
https://www.tiktok.com/@theallinpod
Follow on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/company/allinpod
Intro Music Credit:
https://rb.gy/tppkzl
https://x.com/yung_spielburg
Intro Video Credit:
https://x.com/TheZachEffect
Referenced in the show:
https://github.com/deepseek-ai/DeepSeek-R1/blob/main/DeepSeek_R1.pdf
https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/artificial-intelligence/chinese-company-trained-gpt-4-rival-with-just-2-000-gpus-01-ai-spent-usd3m-compared-to-openais-usd80m-to-usd100m
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/01/27/nvidia-sheds-almost-600-billion-in-market-cap-biggest-drop-ever.html
https://x.com/shrihacker/status/1884414667503853749
https://x.com/balajis/status/1884975064283812270
https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-transcripts/2025/01/29/meta-platforms-meta-q4-2024
earnings-call-transcri
https://x.com/mrexits/status/1885017400308806121
https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/stock-market-today-dow-sp500-nasdaq-live-01-28-2025/card/deepseek-s-ai-learned-from-chatgpt-trump-s-ai-czar-says-LoCYvz2Lm0riS0AuEoB5
https://www.wsj.com/tech/ai/why-distillation-has-become-the-scariest-wordfor-ai-companies-aa146ae3
https://techcrunch.com/2024/12/27/why-deepseeks-new-ai-model-thinks-its-chatgpt
https://x.com/rauchg/status/1875627666113740892
https://www.ft.com/content/a0dfedd1-5255-4fa9-8ccc-1fe01de87ea6
https://x.com/satyanadella/status/1883753899255046301
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox
https://x.com/pitdesi/status/1883192498274873513
https://x.com/rihardjarc/status/1884263865703358726
https://x.com/austen/status/1884444298130674000
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/01/30/openai-in-talks-to-raise-up-to-40-billion-at-340-billion-valuation.html
https://x.com/america/status/1884372526144598056
https://x.com/DOGE/status/1884396041786524032
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYFSD
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/establishing-and-implementing-the-presidents-department-of-government-efficiency
https://x.com/Jason/status/1884671945800573018
https://abcnews.go.com/538/trump-starts-term-weak-approval-rating/story?id=118146633
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/01/15/cpi-inflation-december-2024-.html
https://x.com/chamath/status/1885068981905875241
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