Startups For the Rest of Us

What does it take to build a seven figure SaaS in a market almost no one thinks about? In this episode, Rob Walling sits down with Brian Henderson, co-founder of Wash-Dry-Fold POS, to walk through the 10-year arc of building it in one of the most overlooked markets there is: laundromats. From selling other people's hardware as a scrappy reseller, to teaching himself to rebuild the entire product on no-code during COVID, to competing head-on against a rival that has raised $220 million in venture capital, Brian shares why staying bootstrapped became his biggest advantage. Episode Sponsor: What if you could go from idea to your first real user in 30 days? Not a prototype, not a promise, but an actual working app. Designli will put that in writing. Their TractionLab is a 90-day plan that takes you from idea to first paying customers. By Day 30, v1 of your app is in your users' hands, guaranteed. Miss that deadline and your next month is free. It starts with a free 30-minute call where you share your idea and they tell you exactly what they'll build and what it costs. No surprises. You get a full senior team: product owner, engineering lead, full-stack developer, senior UX designer, and solutions architect. They use AI to ship faster, but senior engineers own every architecture decision and review every line of code. The result is yours, and it's built to last. Go from idea to revenue in 90 days: designli.co/gettraction Topics we cover: (2:41) – What software for laundromats actually does (5:41) – Hitting seven figures with seven people (6:33) – Bootstrapping with only $100 (7:39) – Why no laundromat software existed (10:18) – Starting as a value-added reseller (18:35) – Rebuilding on Bubble during COVID (24:56) – Running a large no-code SaaS (31:28) – Hardware as a competitive moat (33:43) – Competing against a VC-backed rival (39:32) – Selling hardware to cover CAC Links from the show: TinySeed Accelerator | Join our email list - Applications open in September 2026 Wash-Dry-Fold POS Bubble Coaching No Code Apps  Not Quite Unicorns  Wash-Dry-Fold POS | Facebook Brian Henderson | LinkedIn If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

Brian Henderson

Co-founder

Wash-Dry-Fold POS

Are you building systems for your team, or are you still the system?  In this episode, Rob Walling talks with Julien Marzouk, a former SaaS founder and coach who has worked with hundreds of seven and eight figure founders over the past decade. Julien breaks down six recurring patterns he sees in founders who scale past a million, from the identity shift of moving from operator to leader, to the visibility problems that get mistaken for lead problems. Topics we cover: (2:59) – Why seven-figure founders seek coaching (5:50) – Coach versus mastermind, key differences (9:44) – Mindset shift to be coached well (12:05) – Pattern 1: Operator to leader (14:05) – Pattern 2: Doing too many things (18:17) – Pattern 3: The rescuing founder (21:45) – Pattern 4: Visibility disguised as leads (25:36) – Pattern 5: Action beats analysis paralysis (28:55) – Pattern 6: Clarity before AI agents (32:07) – What coaching at SaaS Institute involves Links from the show: Tiny Summit | Cancun, Mexico · December 5-7, 2026 - Get On the Wait List TinySeed SaaS Institute TinySeed Mentors MicroConf Masterminds Julien Marzouk | LinkedIn Rob Walling (@robwalling) | X If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

Is SaaS dead now that AI can build an app in a weekend? In this solo episode, Rob Walling gives his most definitive answer yet to the question flooding the internet: what's the future of SaaS now that AI makes it easier than ever to build and copy a product? He breaks down the four most common claims that AI will kill Saas, and explains why the real SaaS apocalypse is coming for overpriced incumbents, not bootstrappers. Topics we cover: (2:15) – What's the future of SaaS with AI? (3:08) – Why "X is dead" predictions keep failing (5:12) – Claim 1: The self-hosting fantasy (11:39) – Claim 2: Anyone can clone your app (13:32) – Claim 3: Agents will do the work (16:34) – Claim 4: Infinite competition (18:02) – Which SaaS categories genuinely get squeezed (19:06) – The real apocalypse: Overpriced incumbents Links from the show: MicroConf US ┃Austin, TX · April 18–20, 2027. Use promo code ROB50 MicroConf Connect | Community for Bootstrapped SaaS founders Harris Kenny | LinkedIn Rob's Weekly Newsletter The SaaS Playbook TinySeed Startups for the Rest of Us | YouTube If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

Should you keep pouring time into a business that will probably never be huge? In this episode, Rob Walling answers listener questions about whether to keep growing a "step two" B2C business despite platform risk, when one-time payments make sense versus subscriptions, and how to price and position a Shopify app that needs custom implementation work. Want to get your question answered? Drop it here. Episode Sponsor: What if you could go from idea to your first real user in 30 days? Not a prototype, not a promise, but an actual working app. Designli will put that in writing. Their TractionLab is a 90-day plan that takes you from idea to first paying customers. By Day 30, v1 of your app is in your users' hands, guaranteed. Miss that deadline and your next month is free. It starts with a free 30-minute call where you share your idea and they tell you exactly what they'll build and what it costs. No surprises. You get a full senior team: product owner, engineering lead, full-stack developer, senior UX designer, and solutions architect. They use AI to ship faster, but senior engineers own every architecture decision and review every line of code. The result is yours, and it's built to last. Go from idea to revenue in 90 days: designli.co/gettraction Topics we cover: (2:06) – Growing a "step two" business (5:11) – Momentum vs. market size (9:16) – One-time payments vs. subscriptions (15:11) – Why recurring revenue teaches faster (18:22) – Mixing one-time and subscription pricing (20:28) – Pricing a custom Shopify app (22:31) – Building a $49 vs. $249 tier (24:47) – Protecting margin on custom work Links from the show: TinySeed SaaS Institute Rob's Weekly Newsletter Youform The SaaS Playbook SaaS Launchpad SignWell If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

What's really stopping you from shipping your product and how do you finally push through? In this listener questions episode, Rob Walling covers a lot of ground: revisiting the 5PM framework with more opinionated guidance on pricing and market size, the right time to use vibe coding in your SaaS, why B2C apps are brutal, how to rebuild after startup failure, and the mindset shift needed to finally ship.  Want to get your question answered? Submit it here. Topics we cover: (2:19) – 5PM framework revisited (7:01) – When does vibe coding make sense? (10:26) – Why B2C SaaS is brutally hard (13:46) – Rebuilding after failure without funding or network (17:46) – Targeting solution-aware vs. problem-aware customers (20:49) – The never-shipping trap and how to break out (23:28) – Best resources for pre-product-market-fit founders (24:34) – How to validate without paid traffic (28:41) – Cold outreach economics for self-serve products Links from the show: Waitlist for the SaaS Launchpad Book Rob Walling Essays SaaS Launchpad Course The SaaS Playbook MicroConf | Community for Bootstrapped SaaS Founders TinySeed If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

What happens when a bootstrapper at heart raises $28 million and spends the next decade living with that decision? In this episode, Rob Walling sits down with Nick Francis, the co-founder of Help Scout, to walk through the full 15-year arc of building one of the most beloved support tools in SaaS. From the cramped Techstars apartment he shared with a co-founder, to the decision to become a public benefit corporation, to the bold pricing overhaul that ultimately became a turning point in his time as CEO, Nick holds nothing back. Topics we cover: (2:00) – Help Scout's origin story (4:30) – Techstars $18K for 6% equity (7:56) – Getting the first 50 customers (11:13) –  Raising a $12M Series A (13:37) – Would Nick raise again? (19:23) – Becoming a B Corp (22:27) – Help Scout's AI strategy (26:02) – Per-seat to per-contact pricing (32:03) – Stepping down as CEO Links from the show: MicroConf Europe┃Reykjavik, Iceland · Sept 21–23, 2026 MicroConf Connect TinySeed SaaS Institute TinySeed Mentors Discretion Capital  Help Scout  Foundry SavvyCal  Incorruptible by Eric Ries  Nick Francis Nick Francis | LinkedIn If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

Nick Francis

Co-founder & CEO

Help Scout

What do 15 brand-new TinySeed founders have in common?  In this solo episode, Rob Walling shares six key takeaways from the most recent TinySeed batch kickoff in New York City. He covers why asking "why" is the most underrated founder habit, why pricing is still the biggest lever in SaaS and positioning might be the second biggest, why AI SEO is already a real channel and more. He also makes the case for why being around other founders doing what you're doing is one of the most underrated advantages in bootstrapping. Episode Sponsors: What if you could go from idea to your first real user in 30 days? Not a prototype, not a promise, but an actual working app. Designli will put that in writing. Their TractionLab is a 90-day plan that takes you from idea to first paying customers. By Day 30, v1 of your app is in your users' hands, guaranteed. Miss that deadline and your next month is free. It starts with a free 30-minute call where you share your idea and they tell you exactly what they'll build and what it costs. No surprises. You get a full senior team: product owner, engineering lead, full-stack developer, senior UX designer, and solutions architect. They use AI to ship faster, but senior engineers own every architecture decision and review every line of code. The result is yours, and it's built to last. Go from idea to revenue in 90 days: designli.co/gettraction Topics we cover: (5:59) – Takeaway #1: Always ask why (8:42) – Takeaway #2: New revenue fixes everything (except bad pricing) (10:29) – Takeaway #3: Positioning is the second biggest lever in SaaS (16:32) – Takeaway #4: Quick test for your lowest pricing tier (18:23) – Takeaway #5: AI SEO is a real channel (21:20) – Takeaway #6: Be around people doing what you're doing Links from the show: TinySeed SaaS Institute TinySeed Mentors TinySeed Apply SignWell SavvyCal Senior Place  How to Perfectly Position Your B2B Brand in 34 Minutes | Microconf Talk by Anthony Pierri Episode 772 | A Highly Effective Framework for SaaS Positioning The SaaS Playbook Rob Walling (@robwalling) | X If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

How does a founder actually learn the skill of product? In this episode, Rob Walling talks with Ruben Gamez of SignWell and Bidsketch to answer listener questions that turned into a much deeper conversation than expected. They cover why friction works well for one of Ruben's products and kills conversions on the other, how to think about trial length and onboarding when users need more time, and what it actually takes to develop product instincts as a bootstrapped founder.  Want to get your question answered? Drop it here. Topics we cover: (4:00) – Friction in trial funnels: Bidsketch vs. SignWell (8:26) – When to test friction vs. trust your gut (10:44) – Testing with low volume (16:56) – Trial length for project management SaaS (18:47) – How do you learn product? (21:39) – How Ruben developed product sense on the job (23:21) – The two core product skills bootstrappers actually need (29:42) – Product management vs. UX (31:46) – Why product sense doesn't transfer between products (34:07) – How fast you can build product sense Links from the show: SaaS Institute Cancun Retreat – Dec 5-7, 2026, exclusively for 7 & 8 figure SaaS founders | Waitlist: tracy@tinyseed.com  Sponsorship inquiries: sponsors@tinyseed.com   TinySeed SaaS Institute Shreyas Doshi Product Sense Course  Shreyas Doshi on YouTube  Ep 15 - Strategy Session | The Offsite Podcast  The Panel Podcast  SignWell Bidsketch  Ruben Gamez (@earthlingworks) | X If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

Ruben Gamez

Founder

BidsketchSignWell

Is your SaaS actually protected from AI disruption, or are acquirers walking away without even looking? In this episode, Rob Walling talks with Einar Vollset of Discretion Capital for a front-lines SaaS M&A market report, covering how the acquisition climate has shifted since 2021, why some PE firms now require at least one AI moat before they'll even look at a deal, and a breakdown of all five moats: hardware-software coupling, two-sided network effects, communication graph embeds, proprietary data with closed feedback loops, and operational switching costs.  Topics we cover: (2:05) – State of SaaS M&A from 2020 to today (5:49) – Why 2021 was the best time to sell (7:38) – How the 2022 downturn raised the acquisition bar (8:59) – The SaaS apocalypse narrative and AI FUD (12:26) – Why bootstrappers should care about exit markets (15:52) – AI moat #1: Hardware-software coupling (17:38) – AI moat #2: Marketplace scale and two-sided network effects  (20:05) – AI moat #3: Communication graph and relationship embed (21:27) – AI moat #4: Proprietary data with closed feedback loops (23:20) – AI moat #5: Operational embed and switching costs (27:28) – Some PE firms now require at least one moat (29:23) – AI-native SaaS faces even higher hurdles Links from the show: MicroConf Connect Next Live Session: Jim Zarkadas on User-Friendly Onboarding (June 17)  TinySeed MicroConf YouTube The SaaS Playbook Discretion Capital M&A Guide Fiscal.ai  DealForma BuiltWith ZyraTalk EverCommerce  Einar Vollset (@einarvollset) | X If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

Einar Vollset

Co-Founder / Founder

TinySeedDiscretion Capital

Are you using AI in your marketing because it's actually good, or just because it's fast? In this episode, Rob Walling sits down with Taylor Hendricksen, a performance marketer who has managed tens of millions of dollars in ad spend across Meta and Google, to talk about where AI is genuinely useful and where it produces flat, mediocre output that makes you look like everyone else. They also dig into unconventional distribution channels, offer design, and why some of the best SaaS niches are the least exciting ones.  Episode Sponsor: Your AI-generated code got you to V1. Now it's holding you back. Vibe coding is incredible for speed. But the codebase it leaves behind? Hidden security gaps, duct-tape architecture, features that break every time you ship. At a certain point you need professional engineering discipline, not more prompting. That’s where Designli's Engineering Intensive comes in. In two weeks, senior engineers audit your code, stress-test your infrastructure, surface vulnerabilities, and deliver a prioritized roadmap to get scale-ready. Total clarity on your product's health, with a money-back guarantee. Schedule your Engineering Intensive at designli.co/fortherestofus. Podcast listeners can also redeem a free Designli Impact Week. Topics we cover: (5:04) – AI as boogeyman: proving value to customers (6:59) – Human-first content vs. AI-generated content (9:38) – Why AI produces average work by default (13:05) – AI is the average of the internet (16:18) – Overcoming artificial growth ceilings (20:26) – Finding your avatar and positioning around real problems (22:52) – Unconventional distribution: direct mail and video mailers (25:52) – Crafting offers people feel stupid saying no to (28:42) – Using AI for ops, research, and thought partnership Links from the show: TinySeed SaaS Institute Rob Walling Email List The SaaS Playbook MicroConf | Community for Bootstrapped SaaS Founders Alex Hormozi YouTube Channel Incorruptible by Eric Ries  Taylor Hendricksen | LinkedIn If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

Is AI actually making your build-measure-learn cycle faster, or just making your work more average?  In this episode, Rob Walling talks with Eric Ries, author of The Lean Startup, to revisit what's held up in Lean Startup thinking 15 years on, why AI speeds up building but can't replace human learning, and what drove Eric to write his new book, Incorruptible. Eric also shares the story of how the Long-Term Stock Exchange nearly died before it ever launched, and why Costco is the rare example of a company that figured out how to stay incorruptible.  Topics we cover: (3:48) – Lean Startup: 15 years later (8:33) – How countercultural MVPs and pivots were (11:02) – How AI changes build-measure-learn (13:36) – Learning is still a human job (15:43) – AI makes everyone's work more average (17:39) – The Long-Term Stock Exchange story (21:03) – How LTSE was nearly destroyed (25:00) – A better definition of profit (31:45) – Companies already living this way (32:33) – The legend of Sol Price and Costco (37:36) – Incorruptible: ethos plus integrity Links from the show: TinySeed SaaS Institute The SaaS Playbook Incorruptible by Eric Ries  The Lean Startup by Eric Ries Long-Term Stock Exchange (LTSE)  Eric Ries | LinkedIn Eric Ries (@ericries) | X If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

Eric Ries

Founder & CEO

Long-Term Stock ExchangeLTSEThe Lean Startup

What do Nobel Prize winners and successful bootstrappers have in common?  In this solo episode, Rob Walling shares the story of how a TinySeed company went from near-zero revenue to $10,000-$20,000 a month almost overnight, breaks down Claude Shannon's research on the habits that separated Nobel laureates from forgotten scientists, and explores why deep expertise looks like magic from the outside. Episode Sponsor: You're about to close a massive deal, and then your customer's legal team asks what happens if you get hacked.  That's the nightmare YSecurity solves. They're 40 security engineers who've worked at Apple, Uber, Microsoft, Robinhood, Brex, and more. You don't hire them, you rent them by the hour, no massive salary, no expensive consultants. Just real experts helping you get SOC 2, ISO, and more. Set a monthly cap, know exactly what you're spending, and close the deal.  Head to ysecurity.io/startups to book your free strategy call. Your first 8 hours are completely free. Topics we cover: (2:46) – BlinkMetrics: from no product-market fit to $10-20K/month (8:31) – 104 coffee chats, 24 sales calls  (10:25) – AI changes custom dashboard economics  (12:53) – What separates Nobel winners from the forgotten  (14:40) – Knowledge compounds like interest  (18:28) – Taking bigger swings vs. staying in your comfort zone (19:36) – Going deep on one idea for years  (21:21) – Expertise that looks like magic  Links from the show: MicroConf Europe ┃Reykjavik, Iceland · Sept 21–23, 2026 MicroConf Connect BlinkMetrics Claude Shannon Bell Labs lecture Why most indie hackers aren't succeeding┃Baretto (tiiny.com)  Stephen Curry got that sixth sense when it comes to the rim The SaaS Playbook by Rob Walling TinySeed SaaS Accelerator Rob Walling on YouTube Rob Walling (@robwalling)┃X If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes |Spotify

How do you leave a $400K salary to go all in on your business? In this solo episode, Rob Walling cranks through a backlog of listener questions on reducing risk with your startup to go full-time, when to register as a business, how to price a SaaS with seat ambiguity, when to pivot, and how to keep building when you have four kids under eight.  Want to get your question answered? Drop it here. Episode Sponsor: Your AI-generated code got you to V1. Now it's holding you back. Vibe coding is incredible for speed. But the codebase it leaves behind? Hidden security gaps, duct-tape architecture, features that break every time you ship. At a certain point you need professional engineering discipline, not more prompting. That’s where Designli's Engineering Intensive comes in. In two weeks, senior engineers audit your code, stress-test your infrastructure, surface vulnerabilities, and deliver a prioritized roadmap to get scale-ready. Total clarity on your product's health, with a money-back guarantee. Schedule your Engineering Intensive at designli.co/fortherestofus. Podcast listeners can also redeem a free Designli Impact Week. Topics we cover: (2:15) – Leaving a $400K salary to go full-time (7:43) – When to officially register your business (10:51) – Seat-based pricing with shared branding (12:40) – When to get a design audit (15:05) – How to calculate TAM for a Shopify app (18:29) – Can a step one app break free of its marketplace? (20:22) – How to know when it's time to pivot (22:31) – Building a startup with four young kids (25:30) – How to find ICP conversations without a network Links from the show: MicroConf Connect Join by May 20th to attend a Live AMA with Rob Walling The SaaS Playbook Start Small, Stay Small  Reddit Thread: $30K to $440K in 7 Years (AMA) Stripe Atlas  I Grew This SaaS by 13% Every Month for 13 Months  Episode 589 | Finding a SaaS Idea Through 70 Cold Calls Rob Walling (@robwalling) | X If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

Should your first customer pay you, or get your product for free?  In this episode, Rob Walling answers listener questions on charging customer zero, what metrics to track for a seasonal transaction fee-based SaaS, what it really means to sell into a low-awareness market, and when freelancers help vs. hurt your bootstrapped business. He also calls in Producer Ron to break down exactly how he thinks about writing copy for a podcast ads. Want to get your question answered? Drop it here. Topics we cover: (2:42) – Six years to overnight success (4:55) – Should customer zero pay or get it free? (8:42) – Writing ad copy for podcast ads (15:14) – Metrics for a transaction fee-based SaaS (18:40) – Moving from GMV-only to subscription plus fees (20:38) – Selling into a low-awareness market (23:53) – When bootstrappers struggle without problem awareness (27:09) – Podcast music history editor Josh (31:44) – How to find and work with freelancers Links from the show: SaaS Launchpad TinySeed SaaS Accelerator MicroConf The SaaS Playbook Zell Wave by Josh Young - SoundCloud Dynamite Jobs New Rob’s VideoAsk  Rob Walling (@robwalling) | X If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

What were the highlights and takeaways from MicroConf?  In this episode, Rob Walling and Derrick Reimer recap MicroConf US 2026 in Portland, Oregon. They break down the best talks from the event, including Jason Cohen on breaking through growth plateaus, Amanda Natividad on Zero-Click Marketing and broken attribution, Rob's framework for six ways to implement AI in SaaS, and Craig Hewitt's all-in take on AI adoption. Plus, they cover excursions, the hallway track, and why the MicroConf community keeps pulling founders up. Episode Sponsor: You're about to close a massive deal, and then your customer's legal team asks what happens if you get hacked.  That's the nightmare YSecurity solves. They're 40 security engineers who've worked at Apple, Uber, Microsoft, Robinhood, Brex, and more. You don't hire them, you rent them by the hour, no massive salary, no expensive consultants. Just real experts helping you get SOC 2, ISO, and more. Set a monthly cap, know exactly what you're spending, and close the deal.  Head to ysecurity.io/startups to book your free strategy call. Your first 8 hours are completely free. Topics we cover: (2:14) – MicroConf 2026 attendee caliber and mix (5:07) – Rebuilding MicroConf post-COVID (8:51) – Jason Cohen on breaking growth ceilings (12:48) – Amanda Natividad on Zero-Click Marketing (19:30) – Excursions, arcades, and the hallway track (22:01) – Rob's six ways to implement AI in SaaS (27:27) – Gia Laudi on Jobs To Be Done as your GTM moat (29:00) – Craig Hewitt's "AI Doomer" talk (33:41) – MicroConf Europe in Iceland Links from the show: MicroConf Europe┃Reykjavik, Iceland · Sept 21–23, 2026 MicroConf Connect TinySeed SaaS Institute Jason Cohen's "Designing the Ideal Bootstrapped Business with Jason Cohen"  Amanda Natividad | LinkedIn SparkToro Gia (Georgiana) Laudi | LinkedIn Formspree  Rob Walling on YouTube Craig Hewitt | LinkedIn SavvyCal (Derrick Reimer) Derrick Reimer | LinkedIn If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

Can AI really handle product decisions for your SaaS? In this solo adventure, Rob Walling revisits the core four SaaS skills and breaks down what AI can and cannot do across Development, Sales, Marketing, and Product. He also reframes Bill Gross's top five startup success factors for bootstrappers, walks through a hilariously bad UX decision by a local parking app, and closes with a surprisingly insightful Beastie Boys anecdote about shipping creative work into the world. Episode Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by Mercury Mercury is the banking solution I use across all of my businesses, from my personal single-member LLC to MicroConf and TinySeed. Traditional banking is broken, slow wires, clunky interfaces, tools that feel like they were built in 2005.  Mercury is what banking should feel like in 2026. Everything just works. Whether it's daily bill pay or wiring large sums to the dozens of companies we invest in each year, Mercury handles it. Simple when I need simple, robust when I need approvals and controls. Over 300,000 entrepreneurs have made the switch. When founders ask me where to set up their account, I send them to mercury.com.  Free to get started, no in-person visits, no minimum balance. Mercury is a fintech company, not an FDIC-insured bank. Banking services provided through Choice Financial Group and Column N.A., Members FDIC. Topics we cover: (5:48) – AI and the Core Four SaaS skills (7:03) – Why AI falls short with sales and marketing (8:45) – The editorial eye AI still lacks (10:14) – Why AI is worst at product (13:41) – Bill Gross's top five startup success factors (19:48) – A parking app's terrible UX decisions (24:24) – The Beastie Boys and lessons on shipping Links from the show: TinySeed | SaaS Institute  Ep. 817 | Bootstrapping in the Age of AI with Jason Cohen Rob Walling YouTube Rob Walling Newsletter Bill Gross’s Ted Talk on Startup Success Factors The Beastie Boys on Conan O’Brian’s Podcast If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

Is your product actually a SaaS? In this episode, Rob Walling tackles listener questions about what really qualifies as SaaS (and where he disagrees with ChatGPT), how to serve both solopreneurs and enterprise customers with a dual funnel strategy, layering a B2B offering on top of a B2C product, pricing a mission-driven app without gatekeeping access, and the impact of healthcare costs on startup runway. Want to get your question answered? Drop it here. Episode Sponsor: Your payroll tool doesn't talk to your bank. Your bank doesn't talk to your bookkeeper. And you're the one stuck in the middle playing admin instead of building your company. Every is the back office platform built for startups. Incorporation, banking, international and domestic payroll, bookkeeping, and tax prep, one login, one platform. You get a dedicated Slack channel with actual humans, up to $3 million in FDIC insurance, corporate cards, and automated accounting. Setup takes under 30 minutes. Most founders are fully transitioned within a week.  Check them out at every.io.  And if you're at MicroConf in Portland, make sure to swing by and chat with the team. Topics we cover: (3:09) – What qualifies as a SaaS business? (5:15) – Why Netflix and Spotify are not SaaS (8:11) – Where Rob disagrees with ChatGPT on SaaS (12:21) – Serving solopreneurs and enterprise simultaneously (15:13) – The power of the dual funnel strategy (17:02) – Navigating the enterprise sales process (22:20) – Layering B2B features onto a B2C product (28:52) – Pricing a mission-driven job search app (35:57) – Healthcare costs and startup runway in the US Links from the show: MicroConf Masterminds – Applications close April 17th MicroConf’s Masterminds Guide Newscatcher  HelpSpot  TinySeed Rob Walling (@robwalling) | X If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes |Spotify Listen to Episode 828

What would it mean for you to leave 60 or 70% of your company's value on the table when you sell? In this episode, Rob sits down with Einar Vollset, co-founder of TinySeed and founder of Discretion Capital, to talk about his new book, The Definitive Guide to M&A for B2B SaaS between $2 and $20 million ARR. They dig into why private equity now dominates the buyer landscape, why growth and churn are the top two valuation drivers, and how the myth that "startups are bought, not sold" could cost you millions. Einar also explains the danger of running your business past its peak growth rate before selling, why ARR multiples matter more than profit, and how the right M&A advisor can add 30 to 300% to an initial offer. Episode Sponsors: This episode is brought to you by Mercury Mercury is the banking solution I use across all of my businesses, from my personal single-member LLC to MicroConf and TinySeed. Traditional banking is broken, slow wires, clunky interfaces, tools that feel like they were built in 2005.  Mercury is what banking should feel like in 2026. Everything just works. Whether it's daily bill pay or wiring large sums to the dozens of companies we invest in each year, Mercury handles it. Simple when I need simple, robust when I need approvals and controls. Over 300,000 entrepreneurs have made the switch. When founders ask me where to set up their account, I send them to mercury.com.  Free to get started, no in-person visits, no minimum balance. Mercury is a fintech company, not an FDIC-insured bank. Banking services provided through Choice Financial Group and Column N.A., Members FDIC. Everyone's talking about AI in marketing. But AI without strategy just means generating more bad marketing, faster. The founders who win aren't the ones using the most tools, they're the ones with a real system behind their growth. Positioning, persuasion, conversion. That's what moves the needle. That's what Conversion Factory does. They're a SaaS marketing and design agency that has worked with over 100 startups, including several TinySeed companies. Book a call at https://conversionfactory.co/ and mention this podcast for $1,000 off your first month. And if you're at MicroConf US in Portland, grab Corey Haines in the hallway track to see how they can help you. Topics we cover: (3:34) – Why Einar wrote an M&A guide for SaaS founders (5:26) – How founders leave value on the table when selling (8:22) – How private equity moved down market (11:24) – Choosing the right broker or banker (12:55) – Platform acquisitions vs. tuck-ins explained (19:24) – Why "startups are bought, not sold" is wrong (25:48) – Growth and churn as top valuation drivers (30:02) – Why ARR multiples matter more than profit (34:34) – The danger of running past peak growth Links from the show: The Definitive Guide to M&A for B2B SaaS between $2–20M ARR Discretion Capital MicroConf US (Portland) - April 12-14, 2026 MicroConf Mastermind Matching MicroConf Mastermind Playbook TinySeed Exit Strategy by Rob and Sherry Walling  The SaaS Playbook ScrapingBee  Built to Sell by John Warrillow  Einar Vollset @einarvollset | X If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, pleasesubmit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes |Spotify

Einar Vollset

Co-Founder / Founder

TinySeedDiscretion Capital

How do you find someone who thinks like an owner, not just a task-doer? In this episode, Rob digs into a batch of listener questions about task level, project level, and owner level thinkers. He covers how to identify them, what they cost, where to find them, and why building a team of exceptional people creates a virtuous cycle that lifts everyone up. Topics we cover: (4:13) – Defining task, project, and owner level thinkers (7:32) – Are owner level thinkers born or built? (10:16) – Compensation ranges for owner level thinkers (11:53) – W2 vs. contractor for senior hires (15:53) – Do you actually need owner level thinkers? (17:36) – Where to find project and owner level thinkers (20:16) – How long to integrate them into your company (24:40) – How to identify them in job interviews (29:38) – Why you won't always get hires right Links from the show: Rob Walling's Essays Rob Walling’s Newsletter Rob Walling YouTube The SaaS Playbook Remote First Recruiting  MicroConf TinySeed  SaaS Institute Discretion Capital If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes |Spotify

What happens when AI starts competing with your open source business? In this episode, Rob Walling sits down with Adam Wathan, co-founder of Tailwind CSS, for a candid conversation about the dramatic revenue decline that forced Tailwind Labs to lay off most of their team. Adam shares the hard lessons learned from running a business based on one-time purchases, why he didn't see the slowdown coming, and how an honest podcast episode accidentally turned everything around. Then they switch gears entirely to talk about founder fitness: how Adam lost 70 pounds, his 15-minute weighted vest workouts, and why tracking strength gains can be more motivating than watching the scale. Episode Sponsor: Hiring engineers right now is kinda broken. AI resumes, fake profiles, people who look senior on paper but can't ship anything real. G2i cuts through all of that. They've pre-vetted over 8,000 engineers- not "we glanced at their GitHub" vetted, actually tested with live technical interviews. Contract or full-time- just tell them what you need and within days you're reviewing real candidates. And you get a risk-free trial. If it's not a fit, they'll replace the dev in 24 hours. G2i is trusted by companies like Meta, 1Password, and countless bootstrapped founders who need to move fast without making expensive mistakes. Get a 7-day free trial and $1,500 off when you mention Startups for the Rest of Us at https://www.g2i.co/rob  ️ Want to attend their AI Miami in April? Use promo code use Rob50Off Topics we cover: (4:43) – Adam's history with Tailwind CSS (5:17) – Revenue decline and the "boiling frog" problem (8:30) – Making the hard decision to lay off the team (11:39) – The viral podcast episode and unexpected sponsors (13:07) – Should Tailwind have used recurring revenue? (21:20) – Enterprise pricing and team licenses (25:47) – What's next: Ui.sh and swimming downstream with AI (27:40) – Founder fitness: 15-minute weighted vest circuits (33:01) – Tracking strength gains as motivation (39:13) – Did getting fit make Adam a better founder? Links from the show: MicroConf Europe ┃Reykjavik, Iceland · Sept 21–23, 2026 Tailwind CSS Tailwind Labs ui.sh  Adam's Morning Walk Podcast  My Body Tutor  Adam Wathan (@adamwathan)┃X If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

Adam Wathan

Founder

Refactoring UITailwind LabsTailwind CSS

What do you do when a collaborator takes your idea and builds a competing product? In this episode, Rob Walling is joined by fan favorite Jordan Gal to answer listener questions on some of the trickiest challenges founders face. They cover financing decisions like using debt to bridge cash flow gaps, competing in markets flooded with vibe-coded apps, and what to do when a collaborator takes your idea and runs with it. Want to get your question answered? Submit it here for a future episode. Episode Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by Mercury Mercury is the banking solution I use across my businesses, from my personal single-member LLC to MicroConf and TinySeed. Traditional banking forces you to duct-tape tools together and work around slow, clunky processes. Mercury gives me a clean dashboard that shows exactly where each business stands at a glance. The interface is simple enough for daily banking and paying invoices, but powerful enough to handle multi-step approval workflows for large transfers. There's a reason more than 300,000 entrepreneurs have made the switch. It's free to get started with no in-person visits and no minimum balance. Apply online in minutes at mercury.com. Mercury is a fintech company, not an FDIC-insured bank. Banking services provided through Choice Financial Group and Column N.A., Members FDIC. Topics we cover: (3:50) – Jordan Gal on Rosie's multichannel launch (8:01) – Investing cash in slow-moving healthcare markets (10:32) – Using debt or credit against signed contracts (16:48) – Competing in crowded markets with vibe-coded apps (24:34) – Should you offer advisory shares to design partners? (30:38) – Selling to problem-aware but not solution-aware audiences (37:35) – When a collaborator steals your startup idea Links from the show: TinySeed SaaS Institute Stripe Capital The Play Bigger Book The SaaS Playbook Rob Walling's Books Rob Walling's Newsletter Rosie AI Jordan Gal (@JordanGal) | X If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

Jordan Gal

Co-Founder

RallyRosieCartHook

Is AI really killing B2B SaaS, or is it just subscription software by another name? In this Hot Take Tuesday, Rob Walling, Einar Vollset, and Tracy Osborn dig into the market panic around SaaS stocks, whether AI models are actually getting better, ChatGPT's move into advertising (and Anthropic's spicy response), and the explosion of OpenClaw. They also tackle QSBS and when SaaS acquisitions shift from asset to stock purchases. Episode Sponsors: This episode is brought to you by Mercury Mercury is the banking solution I use across my businesses, from my personal single-member LLC to MicroConf and TinySeed. Traditional banking forces you to duct-tape tools together and work around slow, clunky processes. Mercury gives me a clean dashboard that shows exactly where each business stands at a glance. The interface is simple enough for daily banking and paying invoices, but powerful enough to handle multi-step approval workflows for large transfers. There's a reason more than 300,000 entrepreneurs have made the switch. It's free to get started with no in-person visits and no minimum balance. Apply online in minutes at mercury.com. Mercury is a fintech company, not an FDIC-insured bank. Banking services provided through Choice Financial Group and Column N.A., Members FDIC. If you’ve got a strong vision but no technical partner, you need more than a “vibe-coded” MVP, you need a real foundation. That’s where Designli comes in. Their two-week SolutionLab Prototyping Sprint pairs you with a product owner, designer, and developer to turn your idea into a beautiful, clickable prototype you’ll be proud to show investors or early users. Right now, Startups for the Rest of Us listeners get $3,800 off their sprint. Get started at designli.co/fortherestofus Topics we cover: (3:52) – M&A guide for B2B SaaS founders (6:35) – QSBS and asset vs. stock purchase thresholds (9:25) – Is AI killing B2B SaaS? (16:27) – Are AI models noticeably better than a year ago? (17:27) – ChatGPT vs. Claude: real-world experiences (26:17) – ChatGPT ads and Anthropic's Super Bowl response (29:34) – The opportunity for SaaS founders in new ad networks (32:29) – OpenClaw: hype or substance? Links from the show: MicroConf US April 12-14, 2026 · Portland, Oregon Discretion Capital’s M&A Guide TinySeed SaaS Institute AI is Killing B2B SaaS by Namanyay Goel OpenClaw is What Apple Intelligence Should Have Been by Jake Quist Rob Walling @robwalling | X Einar Vollset @einarvollset | X Tracy Osborn (tracymakes) | Blue Sky If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes |Spotify

Should you build your SaaS with no-code tools, or is AI coding the better path forward? In this episode, Rob is joined by fan favorite Derrick Reimer to tackle listener questions on no-code vs. AI vibe coding, when to take small funding early vs. pure bootstrapping, whether SaaS margins will compress as AI makes building cheaper, and how to get truly useful feedback from your customers. Want to get your question answered? Submit it here for a future episode. Episode Sponsor: Hiring engineers right now is kinda broken. AI resumes, fake profiles, people who look senior on paper but can't ship anything real. G2i cuts through all of that. They've pre-vetted over 8,000 engineers- not "we glanced at their GitHub" vetted, actually tested with live technical interviews. Contract or full-time- just tell them what you need and within days you're reviewing real candidates. And you get a risk-free trial. If it's not a fit, they'll replace the dev in 24 hours. G2i is trusted by companies like Meta, 1Password, and countless bootstrapped founders who need to move fast without making expensive mistakes. Get a 7-day free trial and $1,500 off when you mention Startups for the Rest of Us at https://www.g2i.co/rob  ️ Want to attend their AI Miami in April? Use promo code Rob50Off Topics we cover: (2:18) – No-code vs. AI vibe coding for SaaS (7:55) – What Rob would do as a non-developer today (11:10) – Will you have to rewrite AI or no-code apps later? (17:08) – Taking small funding early vs. bootstrapping (21:29) – De-risking before taking funding (27:42) – Will AI compress SaaS margins? (31:32) – Why brand and positioning still win (37:38) – Expanding your value chain with AI (39:47) – Getting actionable feedback from customers Links from the show: MicroConf Europe 2026 – Join us in Reykjavík, Iceland (Sept 21–23)  Discretion Capital - M&A Advisory for B2B SaaS with $2-25m ARR SavvyCal SavvyCal Appointments TinySeed Derrick Reimer (@derrickreimer) | X If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

Is founder-led marketing right for your SaaS, or just a distraction? In this episode, Rob Walling sits down with Jay Clouse, founder of Creator Science, to explore founder-led marketing. They dig into how Jay overcame his own limiting beliefs about creativity, why most SaaS founders probably shouldn't pursue content creation, and how to evaluate whether building an audience makes sense for your specific business. This is part one of a two-part conversation. Head to the Creator Science podcast to hear Jay interview Rob about SaaS, being a creator, and how he prioritizes his time. Episode Sponsors: This episode is brought to you by Mercury Mercury is the banking solution I use across my businesses, from my personal single-member LLC to MicroConf and TinySeed. Traditional banking forces you to duct-tape tools together and work around slow, clunky processes. Mercury gives me a clean dashboard that shows exactly where each business stands at a glance. The interface is simple enough for daily banking and paying invoices, but powerful enough to handle multi-step approval workflows for large transfers. There's a reason more than 300,000 entrepreneurs have made the switch. It's free to get started with no in-person visits and no minimum balance. Apply online in minutes at mercury.com. Mercury is a fintech company, not an FDIC-insured bank. Banking services provided through Choice Financial Group and Column N.A., Members FDIC. Need to ship faster without expanding your team? Gearheart is an AI-powered product studio that helps startups build B2B SaaS apps and AI agents, fast. Their team ships at twice the speed of traditional dev shops and understands how to work within startup constraints. Whether you need a fractional CTO or experienced engineers to accelerate development, Gearheart plugs directly into your workflow and delivers. They’ve built 70+ products, including SmartSuite, which raised $38M and is used by companies like Capital One. As a listener, you get the first 20 hours of development free when you mention the podcast. gearheart.io Topics we cover:  (3:17) – What is Creator Science and who it serves (6:49) – “I’m not creative”: Jay’s mindset shift + advice for founders (11:38) – Examples of ultra-niche creator businesses  (13:54) – Why founders should create content for customers (not other founders) (19:02) – Discovery vs. relationship channels: where attention actually comes from (20:10) – Who Should Pursue Founder-Led Marketing?  (24:17) – Picking platforms based on where your customers already are (31:43) – Founder-involved vs. founder-led marketing Links from the Show:  MicroConf Europe┃Reykjavik, Iceland · Sept 21-23 Creator Science Creator Science Podcast (Part two of this conversation) Jay Clouse┃LinkedIn Jay Clouse (@jayclouse)┃X  If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

Jay Clouse

Founder

Unreal CollectiveCreator Science

When do you finally quit your day job and go all-in on your startup? In this solo episode, Rob Walling answers listener questions about when it’s worth taking funding to speed up your path to full-time, how to think about equity when a co-founder joins late, and whether A.I. is shifting startup risk from market risk to feasibility risk. He also breaks down how to treat a low-priced, high-churn plan as “cheapium,” when to kill it, and how to test freemium without making a decision you can’t undo. Want to get your question answered? Drop it here. Episode Sponsor: Hiring engineers shouldn’t feel like sorting through AI-polished resumes. G2i cuts through all of that. They’ve pre-vetted over 8,000 engineers, all with 5+ years of real experience, and they run live, human-led technical interviews to verify actual skills. No time wasters. No guesswork. Just solid developers who can deliver. G2i is trusted by companies like Meta, Microsoft, and countless bootstrapped founders who need to move fast without making expensive mistakes. Get a 7-day free trial and $1,500 off when you mention Startups for the Rest of Us at https://www.g2i.co/rob  Topics we cover:  (2:48) – When is it time to quit your day job, and should you raise funding to do it faster? (4:35) – The “emotional runway” problem (and why bootstrappers burn out) (10:06) – Equity splits: when to talk about it, and what actually matters (13:57) – Late co-founder vs. business partner: how traction changes the % (18:34) – Is A.I. increasing feasibility risk (aka tech risk) for startups? (25:01) – Should a cheap, high-churn plan be treated like a marketing channel? (26:19) – “Cheapium” pricing: when to keep it, kill it, or test freemium Links from the Show:  Apply to TinySeed - Applications are until Feb 17th, 2026 The SaaS Playbook by Rob Walling MicroConf  - Community for SaaS Founders Slicing Pie by Mike Moyer Die With Zero by Bill Perkins Dharmesh Shah If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

Could your business structure quietly cost you millions when you sell? In this solo episode, Rob Walling answers listener questions about when QSBS might justify a C Corp (vs. staying an S Corp or LLC), why SaaS exits are often discussed in ARR multiples rather than EBITDA, and how the profitability/growth tradeoff impacts valuation. He also shares thoughts on GMV-based pricing and where developers can learn practical, non-fluffy marketing skills. Episode Sponsors: This episode is brought to you by Mercury Mercury is the banking solution I use across my businesses, from my personal single-member LLC to MicroConf and TinySeed. Traditional banking forces you to duct-tape tools together and work around slow, clunky processes. Mercury gives me a clean dashboard that shows exactly where each business stands at a glance. The interface is simple enough for daily banking and paying invoices, but powerful enough to handle multi-step approval workflows for large transfers. There's a reason more than 300,000 entrepreneurs have made the switch. It's free to get started with no in-person visits and no minimum balance. Apply online in minutes at mercury.com. Mercury is a fintech company, not an FDIC-insured bank. Banking services provided through Choice Financial Group and Column N.A., Members FDIC. If you’ve got a strong vision but no technical partner, you need more than a “vibe-coded” MVP, you need a real foundation. That’s where Designli comes in. Their two-week SolutionLab Prototyping Sprint pairs you with a product owner, designer, and developer to turn your idea into a beautiful, clickable prototype you’ll be proud to show investors or early users. Right now, Startups for the Rest of Us listeners get $3,800 off their sprint. Get started at designli.co/fortherestofus Topics we cover:  (3:30) – How the QSBS tax benefit can save you millions (7:40) – C Corp vs. S Corp: which structure makes sense for founders (9:39) – Why ARR multiples matter more than EBITDA in SaaS (13:13) – Profitability as a drain on growth (17:48) – Should co-founders join the same mastermind? (19:16) – How to leverage GMV-based pricing in SaaS (22:48) – The best way for developers to learn real marketing skills (31:28) – Why every founder should master sales and marketing early Links from the Show:  TinySeed Applications Live Q&A - February 11th, 10:00 AM EST Apply to TinySeed - Applications are until Feb 17th, 2026 The SaaS Playbook by Rob Walling MicroConf  - Community for SaaS Founders Conversion Factory TinySeed Mentors Rob Walling on X (@robwalling) If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

Is perfectionism quietly sabotaging your career or startup dreams? In this episode, Rob Walling talks with his brother, Russ Walling, about the mindset and habits that shape long-term success from overcoming perfectionism to building resilience and learning to make tough calls without all the answers. They discuss how growing up with a shared emphasis on hard work, sports, and achievement created both strengths and struggles and how lessons learned in construction, poker, and entrepreneurship still apply to building great companies today. Episode Sponsor: Hiring engineers shouldn’t feel like sorting through AI-polished resumes. G2i cuts through all of that. They’ve pre-vetted over 8,000 engineers, all with 5+ years of real experience, and they run live, human-led technical interviews to verify actual skills. No time wasters. No guesswork. Just solid developers who can deliver. G2i is trusted by companies like Meta, Microsoft, and countless bootstrapped founders who need to move fast without making expensive mistakes. Get a 7-day free trial and $1,500 off when you mention Startups for the Rest of Us at https://www.g2i.co/rob  Topics we cover:  (04:10) – How early lessons in hard work and sports shaped mindset (07:46) – Learning to be comfortable being uncomfortable (12:03) – The dark side of perfectionism (16:51) – Overcoming fear of failure and learning to take risks (19:04) – What poker taught Russ about risk and decision-making (21:52) – The Armageddon Beer story  (28:53) – Why both brothers chose entrepreneurship (31:08) – Redefining leadership: collaboration over fear (35:24) – The three traits that drive lasting success (43:45) – Why hard work is still the ultimate differentiator Links from the Show:  Discretion Capital M&A Advisory for SaaS Founders doing $2-25M The SaaS Playbook by Rob Walling Rob Walling (@robwalling) | X  If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

How would a 2x unicorn founder build his next startup with AI? In this episode, Rob Walling sits down with Jason Cohen, founder of SmartBear and WP Engine, to talk about building billion-dollar businesses, the future of AI for founders, and what makes small companies thrive even when the odds are stacked against them. They dig into the early days of WP Engine, how Jason develops his frameworks, why execution beats ideas, and Jason’s framework for identifying “hidden multipliers” small, systematic changes that make an outsized impact. Episode Sponsor: Hiring engineers shouldn’t feel like sorting through AI-polished resumes. G2i cuts through all of that. They’ve pre-vetted over 8,000 engineers, all with 5+ years of real experience, and they run live, human-led technical interviews to verify actual skills. No time wasters. No guesswork. Just solid developers who can deliver. G2i is trusted by companies like Meta, Microsoft, and countless bootstrapped founders who need to move fast without making expensive mistakes. Get a 7-day free trial and $1,500 off when you mention Startups for the Rest of Us at https://www.g2i.co/rob  Topics we cover:  (03:45) – The core idea behind Hidden Multipliers (09:24) – Writing as a way of thinking (12:34) – Why sharing your frameworks matters (14:14) – The origin of “Designing the Ideal Bootstrap Business” (18:10) – The hidden weak links in every startup (21:25) – De-risking and niching down effectively (24:56) – Why narrowing your focus expands your reach (26:24) – Building WP Engine in a commodity market (29:37) – Out-executing funded competitors (31:52) – Finding product–market resonance through pricing (32:40) – How brand actually develops (37:54) – Building in the age of AI: pitfalls and opportunities (41:52) – The three categories of AI startups today (46:02) – Why 10x improvement is the new baseline for differentiation (49:19) – The real moat in the age of AI Links from the Show:  MicroConf US 2026 – Portland, April 14–16, 2026  Promo Code: Rob50 for $50 off The SaaS Playbook PREORDER Hidden Multipliers by Jason Cohen Designing the Ideal Bootstrapped Business with Jason Cohen A Smart Bear Blog Jason Cohen (@asmartbear) | X  If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

Jason Cohen

Founder

WP EngineGastrographSmartBear

Have you ever pushed so hard on an idea that you missed the signal to change direction? In this solo episode, Rob Walling covers a wide range of topics and dives into three areas every founder should master: how to develop an editorial eye (or “taste”), the difference between persistence and obstinance, and why focus, not diversification remains the hardest, most valuable entrepreneurial skill. Episode Sponsor: Hiring engineers shouldn’t feel like sorting through AI-polished resumes. G2i cuts through all of that. They’ve pre-vetted over 8,000 engineers, all with 5+ years of real experience, and they run live, human-led technical interviews to verify actual skills. No time wasters. No guesswork. Just solid developers who can deliver. G2i is trusted by companies like Meta, Microsoft, and countless bootstrapped founders who need to move fast without making expensive mistakes. Get a 7-day free trial and $1,500 off when you mention Startups for the Rest of Us at https://www.g2i.co/rob Topics we cover:  (1:55) – How to develop an “editorial eye” (and why it matters for founders) (7:03) – When to get out of the way and let true experts lead (8:07) – Why your product must start with a real problem (not just an idea) (9:11) – Paul Graham’s The Right Kind of Stubborn: persistence vs. obstinance (12:03) – Are you attached to your goal or just your first idea? (13:44) – How great founders adapt to new data without losing momentum (14:44) – Sam Parr on why “constant switching will kill you” (16:30) – Focus as a founder’s hardest and most valuable skill (16:49) – Why “Triple, Triple, Double, Double” isn’t dead (despite VC takes) (18:34) – The problem with clickbait startup advice Links from the Show:  MicroConf Europe 2026 – Join us in Reykjavík, Iceland (Sept 21–23) - Promo Code: ROB50 The Mom Test by Rob Fitzpatrick Paul Graham: “The Right Kind of Stubborn” Sam Parr (@thesamparr) | X  Harry Stebbings (@HarryStebbings) | X Rob Walling YouTube Channel The SaaS Playbook If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

Can your 9-to-5 job secretly prepare you to be a founder? In this solo episode, Rob Walling shares 11 unexpected lessons from his own day jobs, from courier to electrician to engineering manager, and how each role quietly taught him skills that shaped his success as a SaaS founder. He dives into the value of curiosity, self-education, and learning to lead before you ever start a company. Episode Sponsor: If you’ve got a strong vision but no technical partner, you need more than a “vibe-coded” MVP, you need a real foundation. That’s where Designli comes in. Their two-week SolutionLab Prototyping Sprint pairs you with a product owner, designer, and developer to turn your idea into a beautiful, clickable prototype you’ll be proud to show investors or early users. Right now, Startups for the Rest of Us listeners get $3,800 off their sprint. Get started at designli.co/fortherestofus Topics we cover:  (2:03) – Why every day job can teach entrepreneurial skills (4:44) – Lesson #1: Figuring things out when instructions are unclear (7:27) – Lesson #2: Learning to respect other people’s time (9:05) – Lesson #3: How early self-education compounds over time (11:33) – Lesson #4: Embracing hard, unglamorous work (14:09) – Lesson #5: Why experience always beats credentials (16:42) – Lesson #6: Letting the buck stop with you (17:44) – Lesson #7: Knowing when to cut corners (and when not to) (20:11) – Lesson #8: Finding the right people to work with (21:33) – Lesson #9: Managing and motivating people as a learned skill (23:53) – Lesson #10: Turning hiring and firing into Founder superpowers (26:11) – Lesson #11: The value of exposure to well-run systems Links from the Show:  MicroConf Mastermind Matching – Apply before January 16th The SaaS Playbook by Rob Walling Good to Great by Jim Collins Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen R. Covey Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill MicroConf Rob Walling @robwalling) | X If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify