How Should ETH Be Valued? | Ryan Berckmans vs. Jon Charbonneau
Jon Charbonneau and Ryan Berckmans join Bankless to debate Ethereum’s future: is ETH undervalued, or has the market already spoken?
We unpack whether Ethereum can rival Bitcoin as a store of value, if L2s will drive real value back to ETH, and whether Solana’s momentum signals deeper trouble for Ethereum. Jon argues ETH has lost its lead and may never reclaim it. Ryan contends Ethereum’s neutrality and institutional traction make it the inevitable hub for the onchain economy.
This is the definitive conversation on where ETH stands—and where it’s heading.
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TIMESTAMPS
0:00 Intro
0:32 Is ETH special?
32:55 How ETH should be valued
51:42 ETH over or undervalued?
1:09:59 Being wrong on ETH
1:13:00 Closing & Disclaimers
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RESOURCES
Ryan Berckmans
https://x.com/ryanberckmans
Jon Charbonneau
https://x.com/jon_charb
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Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:
https://www.bankless.com/disclosures
The Bull Case For Ethereum | Tom Dunleavy & Ryan Berckmans
Gm! This week we're joined by Tom Dunleavy & Ryan Berckmans to discuss the bull case for Ethereum. We deep dive into Ethereum's big pivot, how to value the L1, should L2 tokens exist, the role of Etherealize, what's next for ETH & more. Enjoy!
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Timestamps:
(00:00) Intro
(01:50) What Went Wrong With Ethereum?
(07:33) The Ethereum L2 Roadmap
(10:35) Does Ethereum Have Product Market Fit?
(13:46) Ethereum’s Big Pivot
(18:11) Ads (ZKSync, Zenrock)
(19:49) Should Blockspace Be Taxed?
(22:15) Ethereum's Next Chapter
(27:55) The Role Of Etherealize
(30:18) Ads (ZKSync, Zenrock)
(31:57) Does Scaling The L1 Benefit L2s?
(42:38) How To Attract Builders To Ethereum
(44:46) Ads (Falcon x,Arweave)
(46:22) Should We Tariff The L2s?
(51:35) How To Value L1s
(56:50) The Bull Case For ETH
(01:04:00) Should L2 Tokens Exist?
(01:09:02) Final Thoughts
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Disclaimer: Nothing said on Empire is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Santiago, Jason, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.
ETH Is Down Bad, While Layer 2s Are Ripping. Are L2s Parasitic to Ethereum? - Ep. 701
Ethereum's Layer 2 solutions are booming, but are they inadvertently holding back the value of ETH itself?
In this episode, Justin Bons and Ryan Berckmans engage in a heated debate over whether L2s are enhancing Ethereum's ecosystem or siphoning off its potential. They discuss the impact of L2s on decentralization, network effects, and whether Ethereum L1 can scale on its own or if the base layer and the rollups now have different incentives. Has Ethereum scaled appropriately for future usage, or was scaling via L2s the wrong roadmap for Ethereum?
Show highlights:
02:43 How Ethereum's rollup-centric roadmap consists of a decentralized Layer 1 (L1) for security with Layer 2 (L2) providing more transaction throughput
04:53 Why Justin is so critical about how L2s centralize Ethereum
14:53 Why, according to Ryan, Layer 2 solutions aren't parasitic to Ethereum but instead enhance its network effects, decentralization, and long-term value
25:35 Why Justin criticizes Ryan’s reliance on "trust me, bro" arguments, questioning the tribalism and authority in claiming the superiority of Ethereum researchers over those from other blockchains
28:15 How Justin thinks the Ethereum L1 could scale and what the tradeoffs are
39:58 Justin’s argument that Ethereum is stuck in the past and his claim that the blockchain trilemma doesn't exist anymore
46:30 Ryan’s take on Ethereum's L1 scaling focuses on solving bandwidth limitations and addressing whether L2s are going to fully decentralize
51:01 Whether SNARKS is the way that Ethereum scales the L1
59:24 Whether L2s will start accepting other tokens to pay for gas
1:05:23 Why Ryan predicts Ethereum's L2 adoption will surge, driving up L1 fees and boosting Ether's value as the leading digital money
1:05:39 Whether based rollups are a good solution for Ethereum to scale without losing all the fees
1:13:21 Why L2s would even try to decentralize and why Justin says that Solana has a better roadmap than Ethereum
1:17:54 Concluding thoughts from Ryan and Justin
Visit our website for breaking news, analysis, op-eds, articles to learn about crypto, and much more: unchainedcrypto.com
Thank you to our sponsors!
Polkadot
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Coinbase
Guests:
Justin Bons, Founder & CIO of Cyber Capital
Previous appearances on Unchained:
Is Bitcoin Doomed to Fail? Eric Wall and Justin Bons Face Off
Ryan Berckmans, Ethereum community member and investor
Links
Previous coverage on Unchained of ETH and L2s:
Are L2s 'Parasitic'? Analysis Shows Ethereum Only Gets a Tiny Percentage of Fees
Are Solana's 'Network Extensions' Just Like Ethereum's Layer 2s But by a Different Name?
Ethereum Has Had a Banner Year in Most Areas. Except Price.
Should Ethereum Layer 2s Urgently Decentralize Their Sequencers?
Others
Justin’s thread on whether L2s are parasitic
Tweet by Zach Rynes, aka ChainLinkGod
Adam Cochran’s tweet on based rollups
Ethereum Foundation September AMA
Vitalkin on L2s
How do layer 2s really differ from execution sharding?
Layers 2s as cultural extensions of Ethereum
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Is The Merge Priced In? with Hal Press & Ryan Berckmans
Is the Merge Priced In? The Ethereum Proof-of-Stake Merge looms around the corner, but how do the markets feel about it?
Ryan Berckmans and Hal Press have a mutually bullish discussion about the Ethereum network today, tomorrow, and long-term. They're both bullish ETH, but differ on how it's going to play out.
This is our favorite kind of debate.
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----- Timestamps:
0:00 Intro 7:00 Hal & Ryan Thesis 18:28 The Merge is Happening 23:30 A Crowded Trade 29:23 Risks and Catalysts 36:10 Structural Significance 41:40 Blockspace Demand 46:40 Real vs Nominal Return 50:30 Miners vs Validators 56:00 Proof of Stake Wins 59:00 Store of Value 1:09:45 The Flippening 1:18:00 Price Predictions
----- Resources:
Hal Press https://twitter.com/NorthRockLP
Ryan Berckmans https://twitter.com/ryanberckmans
----- Not financial or tax advice. This channel is strictly educational and is not investment advice or a solicitation to buy or sell any assets or to make any financial decisions. This video is not tax advice. Talk to your accountant. Do your own research.
Disclosure. From time-to-time I may add links in this newsletter to products I use. I may receive commission if you make a purchase through one of these links. Additionally, the Bankless writers hold crypto assets. See our investment disclosures here: https://newsletter.banklesshq.com/p/bankless-disclosures
Post-Merge, If Lido Becomes Dominant, What Does That Mean for Ethereum? - Ep. 372
Ryan Berckmans, Ethereum investor and community member, and Alexandre Bergeron, Bitcoin investor, discuss Lido’s dominance as a liquid staking provider, whether that issue can be resolved, and how it could be a centralizing force for Ethereum. Show highlights:
what stETH is, what the uses cases are for stETH, and why it is important
how Lido had a first-mover advantage and how that kicked off network effects
whether the liquid staking derivatives system is one of a “winner-take-all”
how much of the staked ETH will be turned into a liquid staking derivative
how Lido might have a huge MEV opportunity after the Merge
what the proposer-builder separation is
whether Lido's dominance will increase over time
whether other competitors have been competitive with Lido
why Lido is a natural monopoly because of the incentives and MEV opportunities
what the implication of Lido’s monopoly is for Ethereum’s censorship resistance
whether Lido is effectively a single entity despite having multiple node operators
whether there could be a long waiting period for becoming a validator after the Merge
how Lido is moving its staking derivatives to other chains
how Lido’s new dual-governance proposal works, why it might be useful to decentralize Lido and whether it reduces the power of LDO token holders
how Lido’s centralization is the biggest threat to Ethereum in the long term and what are the possible solutions
why Ryan believes the value of ETH comes from its credible neutrality and whether Lido's centralization may jeopardize that
whether finding solutions around MEV opportunities is a good way to reduce Lido’s monopoly
whether Lido’s competitors could form an alliance and build a tokenized basket of their staking derivatives to compete with Lido
whether Lido could airdrop the LDO token to all ETH holders to decentralize its governance token
Thank you to our sponsors!
Crypto.com: https://crypto.onelink.me/J9Lg/unconfirmedcardearnfeb2021
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Alex: Twitter: https://twitter.com/bergealex4
Ryan: Twitter: https://twitter.com/ryanberckmans
stETH Lido’s explanation of what stETH is: https://twitter.com/LidoFinance/status/1535184472546889735?s=20&t=oQeB1uj7HG7Y4he-0gbcLg
Previous Unchained Coverage: In the Recent Crypto Market Meltdown, What Role Did Lido’s stETH Play?: https://unchainedpodcast.com/in-the-recent-crypto-market-meltdown-what-role-did-lidos-steth-play-ep-370/
Lido’s Centralization: Alex’s thread on why ETH is broken: https://twitter.com/bergealex4/status/1410761639226318852?s=20&t=JLyNokP7Kxj7tIiDzHIHTQ
Ryan on a liquid staking monopoly: https://twitter.com/ryanberckmans/status/1521179049548300291?s=20&t=JLyNokP7Kxj7tIiDzHIHTQ
Ryan’s proposed solutions: https://twitter.com/ryanberckmans/status/1531731955011579904?s=20&t=JLyNokP7Kxj7tIiDzHIHTQ
Is Lido making Ethereum less decentralized?: https://cryptobriefing.com/is-lido-making-ethereum-less-decentralized/
LDO token analysis: https://medium.com/general_knowledge/lido-finance-liquid-ethereum-staking-ldo-potential-f5dc3553b8d2
Ethereum researcher Danny Ryan’s take: https://twitter.com/dannyryan/status/1524044527828303872?s=20&t=H4UNoLn7sKQyZx5ll3-Ncw
Ryan’s take on Lido’s self-limit: https://research.lido.fi/t/should-lido-on-ethereum-be-limited-to-some-fixed-of-stake/2225/9?u=ryanberckmans
Lido’s Governance Proposals Lido + stETH dual governance: https://research.lido.fi/t/ldo-steth-dual-governance/2382
Hasu on Lido’s dual governance proposal: https://twitter.com/hasufl/status/1540652075352313857?s=20&t=sJU5C5xo5litEJrZZDaWNQ
Lido’s two-phase voting scheme: https://blog.lido.fi/moving-to-two-phase-voting/
MEV Ryan on post-merge MEV: https://twitter.com/ryanberckmans/status/1453597003397611526?s=20&t=JLyNokP7Kxj7tIiDzHIHTQ
Alex on proposer-builder separation: https://twitter.com/bergealex4/status/1540934540901744640?s=20&t=JLyNokP7Kxj7tIiDzHIHTQ
Haseeb on post-merge MEV: https://twitter.com/hosseeb/status/1464003851942391834?s=20&t=JLyNokP7Kxj7tIiDzHIHTQ
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