Kara is joined by Puck’s Matt Belloni to unpack states’ upcoming antitrust challenge to the Paramount–Warner Bros. Discovery merger, Disney’s fight with the FCC over "The View," and Netflix’s growing YouTube ambitions. Then, they discuss Meta’s controversial AI image generator, the Sam Altman movie finding a new home after Amazon walked away, and the blockbuster hype surrounding Christopher Nolan’s "The Odyssey."
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Movies directed by YouTubers are suddenly blowing up at the box office. Backrooms and Obsession are both smash hits, and The Amazing Digital Circus had a big debut last week. Is this the moment YouTube truly takes over Hollywood? Julia Alexander, media correspondent at Puck, walks us through the much longer history of YouTube on the big screen, and helps us figure out where this all goes next. Is the future just really, really big YouTube videos?
Further reading:
Backrooms is at the forefront of horror’s YouTube wave
Iron Lung’s path to theaters was unique, even if the movie isn’t
YouTube is everything and everything is YouTube
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Sarah Personette is the CEO of Puck, a media company that's been around for about five years. Puck hires big star reporters who write newsletters as part of a subscription bundle. Those newsletters are often must-reads in their industries, and those reporters get equity in Puck and a share of the company's revenue.
It's a place where the financial incentives of the influencer economy crash right into the rigors of traditional journalism — and as regular Decoder listeners know, I have a lot of questions about how those two things work (or don't) in the modern media landscape.
Read the full interview transcript on The Verge.
Links:
Puck buys Air Mail in deal valued at $16M | The Wrap
The man yelling ‘iceberg’ on the Hollywood Titanic | New York Times
Sarah Personette joins news startup Puck as CEO | Variety
Are we past peak newsletter? | New York Times
Two new newsletters bet they’ve got Hollywood covered | LA Times
Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
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Kara sits down with Matthew Belloni, author of the flagship Puck newsletter What I’m Hearing and host of The Town podcast, to take the entertainment industry’s temperature just a few days before the Academy Awards.
They dig into the Warner Bros. Discovery/Paramount/Netflix saga and the consequences of the Ellison-backed deal for creatives and crews. Then Kara and Matt debate whether consolidation can fix Hollywood’s broken economics and why legacy companies are facing a “Titanic-esque” moment as linear TV collapses.
They also unpack the streaming wars, Netflix’s next moves, Disney’s succession questions and how AI could reshape filmmaking from visual effects to writers’ rooms. Plus, they make their predictions for the Oscars.
Questions? Comments? Email us at on@voxmedia.com or find us on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, Threads, and Bluesky @onwithkaraswisher.
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AI companies want all the data, everywhere, to make their models bigger and better. That means a lot of questions about piracy and copyright, and at least in one case it means Anthropic systematically destroying countless books just to feed them to the model. The Washington Post's Will Oremus joins the show to explain how that worked, why Anthropic, Meta, OpenAI and others are doing it, and what the law has to say. Then, Puck's Julia Alexander helps David figure out whether Netflix is serious about showing movies in theaters, and what theaters need to do to survive in the entertainment business going forward.
Further reading:
From The Washington Post: Anthropic ‘destructively’ scanned millions of books to build Claude
Anthropic wins a major fair use victory for AI — but it’s still in trouble for stealing books
Meta’s AI copyright win comes with a warning about fair use
Did AI companies win a fight with authors? Technically
From Puck: Why Netflix Needs Warner Bros.
Welcome to the big leagues, Netflix
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Today, we’re talking about the bidding war over Warner Bros. Discovery, which is the biggest story in the entertainment industry right now, and for good reason. It has pretty much everything you could want in a buzzy Hollywood saga — big names, big money, and big drama.
To help me make sense of it all, I wanted to talk with Julia Alexander, a Verge alum and now media correspondent at Puck News who’s one of the best in the business at analyzing corporate strategy, Hollywood, and what’s next in entertainment. Julia really helped me break down why Netflix is the clear front runner to acquire Warner Bros., why David Ellison of Paramount Skydance is so desperate to win, and, perhaps most importantly, how the tech industry fits into this puzzle.
Links:
Netflix is buying Warner Bros. for $83 billion | The Verge
Paramount launches hostile $108 billion bid to snatch Warner | The Verge
Netflix revises Warner Bros. bid to an all-cash offer | The Verge
Why Netflix needs Warner Bros. | Puck News
The Warner Bros. bidding war Is over | Bloomberg
The Son King of Hollywood | Vulture
FCC Chair: ‘Legitimate competition concerns’ with Netflix’s Warner deal | Variety
Netflix's Ted Sarandos to testify at antitrust hearing over Warner deal | Variety
Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
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Baratunde Thurston shares his journey from a tech-savvy upbringing to becoming a prominent voice in comedy and digital media. Baratunde reflects on his time at The Onion and The Daily Show, emphasizing the importance of community and the intersection of technology and humor. He also shares his thoughts on the role of AI in society, advocating for a future where technology enhances human connections.
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If you’re heading on vacation this summer, you’re going to want to listen to this. The Verge’s Gaby del Valle joins the show to explain how worried you need to be about your digital data when you cross borders, and what you can do to protect yourself. Even if you don’t think you have anything to hide, a little precaution goes a long way. After that, Puck’s Matt Belloni joins the show to explain why Apple, Amazon, Google, and other tech companies continue to pour money into the streaming business, when it seems so far removed from what those companies do well. (Spoiler alert: it’s fun to be friends with Ben Stiller.) Finally, we answer a hotline question about the Google Pixel’s ascent to “best Android phone for people who just want a phone.”
Oh, also: thanks to everyone who voted for us in the Webby Awards! We’ll know soon whether we won, but however it shakes out, we’re so grateful to everyone who voted for us.
Further reading:
Is it safe to travel to the United States with your phone right now?
DHS’s airport panopticon is getting people deported and detained
Trump says he wants to deport US citizens to El Salvador
Matt Belloni at Puck
The Town podcast
From Puck: How Long Can the Apple TV+ Experiment Sputter On? - Puck
Google Pixel 9A review: a midrange phone done right
Google Pixel 9 review: the phone that Android needs
Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you.
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Today, we're talking about Disney, the massive activist investor revolt it just fought off, and what happens next in the world of streaming. Because what happens to Disney really tells us a lot about what's happening in the entire world of entertainment. Earlier this month, Disney survived an attempted board takeover from businessman Nelson Peltz. While investors ultimately sided with Disney and CEO Bob Iger, the boardroom showdown made something very clear: Disney needs to figure out streaming and get its creative direction back on track.
To help me figure all this out, I brought on my friend Julia Alexander, who is VP of Strategy at Parrot Analytics, a Puck News contributor, and most importantly, a former Verge reporter. She's a leading expert on all things Disney, and I always learn something important about the state of the entertainment business when I talk to her.
Links:
The Story of Disney+ — Puck News
Disney’s CEO drama explained, with Julia Alexander — Decoder
Is streaming just becoming cable again? Julia Alexander thinks so — Decoder
Disney Fends Off Activist Investor for Second Time in 2 Years — NYT
For Disney, streaming losses and TV’s decline are a one-two punch — NYT
Disney’s ABC, ESPN weakness adds pressure to make streaming profitable — WSJ
Disney reportedly wants to bring always-on channels to Disney Plus — The Verge
The Disney Plus-Hulu merger is way more than a streaming bundle — The Verge
Disney’s laying off 7,000 as streaming boom comes to an end — The Verge
The last few years really scared Disney — Screen Rant
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Today’s episode was produced by Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
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The great Baratunde Thurston join Chris and Brian to talk about his hour-long in-person demo with the Apple Vision Pro. In the second half, we discuss the idea of whether or not Google Search (and maybe the web) is doomed in the era of AI.
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Baratunde Thurston, a founding partner of the media startup Puck and an Emmy-nominated, multi-platform storyteller, joins Scott to discuss the trends in media he’s been paying attention to, his thoughts on masculinity, and what to expect in his upcoming season of How To Citizen. Follow Baratunde on Twitter, @baratunde.
Scott opens with his thoughts on wealth inequality, specifically as it relates to the fact that the nation is facing an all-time low of first-time home buyers.
Algebra of Happiness: Be Honest.
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Today, we need to talk about Bob. Two Bobs, actually: Bob Iger, the former and now current CEO of Disney, and Bob Chapek, the man Iger handpicked as his replacement, who flamed out and was fired by the board, and then, on November 20th, was replaced by Bob Iger. Bobs, man.
The heart of this whole thing is total Decoder bait. It’s a story about how to structure a company like Disney. Then you add in the complexity of the shift to streaming, the future of TV and movies generally, and the gigantic reputation of a character like Bob Iger, who many people think could plausibly run for president. There’s just a lot going on here.
Whenever I need to talk Disney, media, and Bobs, I call one person: Julia Alexander, director of strategy at Parrot Analytics and a former reporter at The Verge. Julia pays a lot of attention to the streaming giants, she’s sourced inside all the companies battling for our attention, and she has a lot to say about the Bobs.
Links:
Bob Iger steps back in as Disney CEO, replacing Bob Chapek
Reed Hastings on Twitter
Disney+ launch lineup: Every movie and TV show available to stream on day one - The Verge
Bob Iger steps down as Disney CEO, replaced by Bob Chapek - The Verge
Disney streaming chief Kevin Mayer resigns to become TikTok CEO - The Verge
Disney Plus surpasses 100 million subscribers - The Verge
Meta announces huge job cuts affecting 11,000 employees - The Verge
Netflix's $6.99 per month ad tier is now live
Stranger Things - The Verge
Disney’s major reorganization is good news for anyone who loves Disney Plus - The Verge
Functional Structure: Advantages and Disadvantages | Indeed.com
Pros and Cons of Implementing a Divisional Structure | Indeed.com
Disney Proposal to Restructure, on McKinsey’s Advice, Triggered Uproar From Creative Executives - WSJ
Disney Shows the Limits of Streaming - WSJ
Disney Erases Almost All Its Pandemic Gains After Earnings Miss
‘Strange World’: Beautiful to look at, but not much below the surface - The Washington Post
Watch The Future Of | Netflix Official Site
Kevin Mayer quits as TikTok CEO due to ongoing political turmoil - The Verge
Kevin Mayer Says His Firm Is In Deal Mode After Buying Reese Witherspoon's Hello Sunshine
WarnerMedia CEO Jason Kilar announces exit as Discovery deal nears close - The Verge
Transcript:
https://www.theverge.com/e/23259187
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan.
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Julia Alexander drops by to discuss the world of streaming services, and how Apple stands apart from its competitors in the space. Also discussed: the sad lack of modern orange notebooks, the importance of the Apple Watch and some of Julia's go-to apps.
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Julia Alexander (@loudmouthjulia) / Twitter
Parrot Analytics
Julia Alexander, Author at Puck
Downstream - Relay FM
20 years later, and streaming Harry Potter is still too complicated - The Verge
The Clamshell iBook G3 - MacStories
Macbook Pro & Macbook Skins, Wraps & Covers » dbrand
Apple hires former HBO chief to produce original titles exclusively for Apple TV Plus - The Verge
Sony and Netflix Announce Movie Deal Starting in 2022 - Variety
Smart Tasks – Lists Made Easy
JustWatch - The Streaming Guide
Teeter (Up) on the App Store
Notion
Flush - Toilet Finder & Map on the App Store
William Cohan, a founding partner and writer at Puck, as well as a former M&A investment banker, joins Scott to discuss how Elon Musk's deal to acquire Twitter might shake out, including what options he might have for backing out, how Twitter's lawyers might respond, and what it all could mean for shareholders. Follow William on Twitter, @WilliamCohan.
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The great Julia Alexander (@loudmouthjulia) joins us to talk about Netflix's big earnings bomb, CNN+ biting the big one, and the state of the streaming wars.
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Julia Alexander was the perfect guest to come on our show and talk about the state of the streaming industry – we’re a couple years into the huge shift to streaming entertainment in Hollywood, and it’s clear the streamers are here to stay. Apple just won the Oscar for Best Picture for a film it bought out of Sundance called Coda. Amazon now owns MGM. Netflix is investing in games and hinting at advertising for the first time. One idea that comes up on Decoder again and again is that how we distribute media has a huge influence on the media itself – and we talked about what kinds of movies and shows are getting made now that the streamers are here to stay.
Links:
Downstream Podcast
‘Extremely awkward’: Bob Chapek and Bob Iger had a falling out, they rarely talk — and the rift looms over Disney’s future
Pixar staff speaks out against Disney moving its films to streaming only: ‘It’s hard to grasp’
HBO Max and Discovery Plus will merge into one app
Apple and Major League Baseball to offer “Friday Night Baseball”
Yankees will have 21 games only available on Amazon Prime
Prime Video unveils logo for 'Thursday Night Football'
CNN Plus launches with Reddit-like interactive Q&As
Transcript:
https://www.theverge.com/e/22774600
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.
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Advocate, technologist and comedian Baratunde Thurston joins the show to talk about his podcast How to Citizen and how, with a little work, we can make tech live up to its potential as a tool for positive social change.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Kara and Scott are back with Pivot’s Quarterly Review series. They take a look at Scott’s past predictions on Alibaba, Meme Stocks, and record entrepreneurship to see how they’ve held up. Then, they get some predictions from Friends of Pivot, including Ina Fried of Axios, journalist Nicole Perlroth, Rani Molla of Recode, and Matt Belloni of Puck.
You can find Ina on Twitter at @inafried, Nicole at @nicoleperlroth, Rani at @ranimolla, and Matt at @MattBelloni.
Send us your Listener Mail questions by calling us at 855-51-PIVOT, or via Yappa, at nymag.com/pivot.
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Teddy Schleifer covers billionaires as a reporter and founding partner at Puck. He joins Big Technology Podcast to discuss the sanctions against Russian oligarchs, how (and if) oligarchs differ from billionaires, and whether putting pressure on the oligarchs can help end Russia's war in Ukraine. Stay tuned for the second half where we discuss tech's connection to the oligarchs, and whether their money plays a role in Silicon Valley.
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Myke's headed off on vacation, but before he goes, he's made time to discuss last week's Apple financial results. Then Jason welcomes special guest Julia Alexander for a mega-Upstream about ScarJo v. Disney, the future of the movies, and the current state of affairs for streaming services.
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Guest Starring:
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the Tea Maker™ Kettle • Breville
Ember
Apple posts $81B quarterly results: Charts – Six Colors
Even iPhone chip shortages can't slow down Apple's money train | Macworld
Apple Earnings, Microsoft and LinkedIn – Stratechery by Ben Thompson
Scarlett Johansson Sues Disney Over ‘Black Widow’ Streaming Release - WSJ
Scarlett Johansson’s ‘Black Widow’ Lawsuit May Be Legally Weak – The Hollywood Reporter
Scarlett Johansson’s ‘Black Widow’ Was Sacrificed To Boost Disney+’s Marvel Shows
It’s not just you, streaming the Olympics is a mess - The Verge
julia alexander (@loudmouthjulia) / Twitter
On a recent weekend longreads segment, I recommended a piece by The Verge’s Julia Alexander asking whether Netflix’s recommendation algorithms were broken, or maybe borked. We’re going to talk a bit about that today, but since Julia is on the Streaming Wars beat at The Verge, you know how I love to talk about the streaming wars, and we are right about at the point where the battle is going to be joined in earnest.
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In part two of our interview with comedian Baratunde Thurston, we talk about how he brought together product development and comedy to create entertaining apps in his recent role at the Daily Show, how he uses coding and technology as tools in the many unique positions he’s held, and how we should balance our coding responsibility with the simple goal of having fun.
Show Links
Partner with Dev & CodeNewbie! (sponsor)
Twilio
Collabora
hierarchical decomposition
David Malan
USDS
Source Forge
Acumen
The Daily Show
March Madness parody app
AlexaSite wins TechCrunch Disrupt Hackathon
SquareSpace
CS50
Tickets for Codeland, our CodeNewbie conference
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Codeland 2019
Baratunde Thurston
Baratunde Thurston is a futurist comedian, writer, and activist who wrote the New York Times best-seller How To Be Black and has been an executive at both The Onion and The Daily Show. He currently operates as an independent rabble rouser, hosts the Comedy Hack Day event series and is a correspondent with NatGeo’s Explorer series. Photo courtesy of Stuart Tracte.
Baratunde Thurston’s made a career of combining tech, comedy, and politics. From launching Comedy Hack Day to his recent role as the Daily Show’s first Supervising Producer for Digital Expansion, he’s found innovative ways to use code as a tool for satire, entertainment, and activism. In part I of our interview, he tells us why he started as a computer science major but ended with a philosophy degree instead, how he sees satirical apps as technology’s art-form, and how projects like Comedy Hack Day bring people together for a unique, and highly entertaining, coding experience.
Show Links
Partner with Dev & CodeNewbie! (sponsor)
NPR Fact Check
Denial of Service attack
NY Tech Meetup
Cultivated Wit
Black Girls Code
Comedy Hack Day
Codeland Conf
Codeland 2019
Baratunde Thurston
Baratunde Thurston is a futurist comedian, writer, and activist who wrote the New York Times best-seller How To Be Black and has been an executive at both The Onion and The Daily Show. He currently operates as an independent rabble rouser, hosts the Comedy Hack Day event series and is a correspondent with NatGeo’s Explorer series. Photo courtesy of Stuart Tracte.