Aravind Srinivas is the Founder and CEO of Perplexity, one of the fastest-growing AI companies in the world. Since the start of the year, Perplexity has tripled revenue to well over $500M in ARR. Aravind has raised over $1BN for the company with reported valuations reaching $20BN.
AGENDA:
05:40 – "Perplexity Changed Google More Than Any PM Ever Has"
10:15 – Why Search Is Not the Future of AI
13:05 – The Most Important Insight in AI: The Model Is NOT The Product
16:10 – Why AI Agents Will Become Bigger Than Google Search
22:00 – AI Will Design Chips, Discover Drugs & Cure Diseases
24:15 – The Secret to Building a 24/7 AI Agent
32:40 – Aravind's Wild Prediction: Micron Could Become More Valuable Than Meta
41:00 – Why Power Will Be The Biggest Bottleneck In AI For The Next Decade
45:00 – Have U.S. Export Controls Accidentally Made China Stronger?
49:00 – Why Dario Amodei's AI Doom Narrative Is Wrong
55:20 – Why Token Budgets are Total BS and Useless
58:00 – When Agent Traffic Surpasses Human Traffic, What Happens To The Internet?
01:08:00 – SpaceX, OpenAI & Anthropic IPOs: Is There Enough Capital For All Three?
01:14:00 – What Elon Musk Is Really Like Behind Closed Doors
Dimitri Shevelenko is the chief business officer of Perplexity. Shevelenko joins Big Technology Podcast to discuss whether the AI industry’s shift toward agentic 'super apps' and computer-using assistants will become a real business. Tune in to hear why Perplexity believes computer use is a durable productivity tool, how it thinks about consumer AI’s growth slowdown, and why multi-model orchestration could be a competitive advantage. We also cover AI search, enterprise adoption, trust and permissions, Chinese open-source models, pricing, and the economics of AI demand. Hit play for a sharp conversation on where AI products are heading next.
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(0:00) Intro live from Nvidia GTC
(0:37) CoreWeave CEO, Michael Intrator
(32:58) Perplexity CEO, Aravind Srinivas
(1:07:11) Mistral CEO, Arthur Mensch
(1:18:57) IREN CEO, Daniel Roberts
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The news business isn't a great one these days. At least for a lot of legacy outlets (newspapers, cable networks, print magazines etc.), the Internet has obliterated their business model. And now AI is coming along and there's a risk that it makes conditions even worse, because unlike in the glory days of the search era, the user doesn't even have to click to get what they're looking for. So how does an AI company like Perplexity, which combines search and AI to create a real-time destination for learning about the news, affect industry economics? On this episode, which was recorded live at Lazard's Foursquare conference (an annual gathering for business leaders in sports, media, and entertainment), we speak with Perplexity's Chief Business Officer Dmitry Shevelenko. We talk about the company's relationship with the news business, a new battle against Amazon, and the general economic and finance environment for hot AI startups.
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Perplexity CEO Aravind Srinivas joins the show to explore how AI agents, personalization, and new browsing models could transform the internet experience.
From replacing mundane workflows with proactive assistance to envisioning a fully AI-native operating system, Aravind shares his long-term vision, the thinking behind Perplexity’s new Comet browser, and why curiosity will remain humanity’s most valuable skill in the AI era.
We also dive into competing with Big Tech, protecting users from AI-generated “slop,” and the architectural choices that make AI-assisted browsing faster, more reliable, and more personal.
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TIMESTAMPS
0:00 Intro
9:58 Curiosity as the Key Human Advantage
15:26 From Keywords to Questions
21:35 Personalization and Agency in Browsing
27:13 Keeping Humans in the Loop
32:30 Why People Love Perplexity
38:35 Comet - The AI Browser
47:24 The Browser vs. Agent Debate
57:16 Competing with Big Tech
1:01:26 The OS Endgame
1:08:48 Closing Thoughts
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RESOURCES
Aravind Srinivas
https://x.com/AravSrinivas
Perplexity
https://www.perplexity.ai/
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OpenAI spent the week responding to outcry from users who miss the behavior of the old ChatGPT, before the latest flagship model was released.
We discuss the criticism, why it caught the company by surprise and what it indicates about the deepening emotional relationships that people are forming with chatbots.
Then, Aravind Srinivas, the chief executive of Perplexity AI, joins us to discuss his company’s new artificial intelligence-powered browser, Comet; his company’s bid to buy Google Chrome; and what the future of the internet looks like when users turn to A.I. assistants to browse the web for them. Finally, to cap it all off, we rate the craziest tech stories of the week in our game Hot Mess Express.
Guests:
Aravind Srinivas, chief executive of Perplexity AI.
Additional Reading:
Chatbots Can Go Into a Delusional Spiral. Here’s How It Happens.
Three Big Lessons From the GPT-5 Backlash
A.I. Start-Up Perplexity Offers to Buy Google’s Chrome Browser for $34.5 Billion
Elon Musk Threatens to Sue Apple Over Claims It Favors OpenAI
U.S. Government to Take Cut of Nvidia and AMD A.I. Chip Sales to China
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This is Alex Heath, deputy editor at The Verge. Nilay’s out on parental leave for the next few months, so I’ll be stepping in to host our Thursday episodes while he’s out. My guest today is Perplexity CEO Aravind Srinivas, who is betting that the browser is where more useful AI will get built.
Perplexity just released Comet, an AI web browser for the Mac and Windows that’s still in an invite-only beta. I’ve been using it, and it’s very interesting. In this conversation, Aravind and I also discussed the future of Perplexity, the AI talent wars, and why he thinks people will eventually pay thousands of dollars for a single AI prompt.
Read the full transcript here on The Verge.
Links:
Perplexity just launched an AI web browser | Verge
Perplexity wants to buy Chrome if Google has to sell it | Verge
The Dia browser is a big bet on the. web and AI | Verge
Perplexity’s CEO on fighting Google & the AI browser war | Command Line
Perplexity launches a $200 monthly subscription plan | Verge
Meta says it’s winning the talent war with OpenAI | Verge
Meta is trying to win the AI race with money | Verge
Meta held talks to buy Perplexity and others | Command Line
Inside Mark Zuckerberg’s AI hiring spree | Command Line
Perplexity is ready to take on Google | Command Line
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
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SaaStr 805: CRO Confidential - 5 Ways AI Has Already Changed SaaS Sales Forever with Perplexity's CBO Dmitry Shevelenko. Hosted by Sam Blond.
Join Sam Blond in the latest episode of CRO Confidential live from SaaStr Annual, featuring Dmitry Shevelenko, Chief Business Officer at Perplexity. Dive deep into how cutting-edge AI can transform your go-to-market strategies, sales processes, and organizational efficiency. Explore key topics like leveraging AI for demand generation, advanced meeting preparation, pipeline management, and more. Learn from Dmitry's expertise on integrating AI to accelerate business growth and gain insights into Perplexity's innovative approach to AI-powered sales. Perfect for tech founders, sales leaders, and AI enthusiasts looking to stay ahead in the rapidly evolving sales and customer acquisition landscape.
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Hey everyone, we just hosted 10,000 of you at the SaaStr Annual in the SF Bay Area, and now get ready, because SaaStr AI is heading to London! On December 2nd and 3rd, we're bringing the SaaStr AI to the heart of Europe. This is your chance to connect with 2,000+ SaaS and AI executives, founders, and investors, all sharing the secrets to scaling in the age of AI. Whether you're a founder, a revenue leader, or an investor, SaaStr AI in London is where the future of SaaS meets the power of AI. And we just announced tickets and sponsorships, so don't wait! Head to SaaStrLondon.com to grab yours and join us this December in London. SaaStr AI in London —where SaaS meets AI, and the next wave of innovation begins. See you there! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This episode of the SaaStr podcast is sponsored by: Attio
This episode is brought to you by Attio — the AI-native CRM. Connect your email, and Attio instantly builds a powerful CRM - with every company, contact and interaction you've ever had. Get 15% off your first year at https://attio.com/saastr
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This episode of the SaaStr podcast is sponsored by: Attention.com
Tired of listening to hours of sales calls? Recording is yesterday's game. Attention.com unleashes an army of AI sales agents that auto-update your CRM, build custom sales decks, spot cross-sell signals, and score calls before your coffee's cold. Teams like BambooHR and Scale AI already automate their Sales and RevOps using customer conversations. Step into the future at attention.com/saastr
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Human potential will only accelerate with AI answering questions better and faster than ever before, says Aravind Srinivas, cofounder and CEO of conversational search engine Perplexity. He examines the trends driving new AI-powered tools that nourish curiosity and creativity — and how they might usher in a new era of intellectual growth and discovery. "Knowledge does not really care about who you are, where you're from or who you have access to. Rather, what matters is the next question you're going to ask," says Srinivas.
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Raman Malik is the Head of Growth at Perplexity where he is responsible for growth marketing, onboarding, activation, retention, and monetisation. Prior to Perplexity, Raman, was an early member of the growth team at Lyft and joined Perplexity earlier this year after his own startup journey.
In Today's Episode with Perplexity's Head of Growth:
1. Inside the Perplexity Growth Machine:
What have been the single biggest needle movers in the growth of Perplexity?
What has not worked? What have they learned from that?
How have partnerships driven growth? Lessons on what makes a good vs bad partnership?
Why does Raman think paid acquisition is a drug and Perplexity do not do it? How does Raman advise other founders when it comes to paid acquisition?
2. Acquisition, Retention, Churn: Mastering the Basics:
Why does Raman think that brand marketing is BS? When does it become more important?
What are the simplest things startups and product teams can do to drive retention up?
How do Perplexity count an "engaged user"? What metric suggests they have a retained user?
What is the good, the bad and the ugly when it comes to A/B tests?
3. How Perplexity Built a Growth Machine:
Why does Raman advise all founders to hire more former founders?
How does the way you manage founders turned employees differ from employees who have never been founders?
What is the must under appreciated growth channel today that has worked for Perplexity?
What growth channel has been the biggest flop for Perplexity? What did Raman learn from losing money on the channel?
In this episode of Gradient Dissent, Denis Yarats, CTO of Perplexity, joins host Lukas Biewald to discuss the innovative use of AI in creating high-quality, fast search engine answers.
Discover how Perplexity combines advancements in search engines and LLMs to deliver precise answers. Yarats shares insights on the technical challenges, the importance of speed, and the future of AI in search.
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Arvind Srinivas is CEO of Perplexity, a company that aims to revolutionize how we humans find answers to questions on the Internet. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:
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OUTLINE:
Here’s the timestamps for the episode. On some podcast players you should be able to click the timestamp to jump to that time.
(00:00) – Introduction
(10:52) – How Perplexity works
(18:48) – How Google works
(41:16) – Larry Page and Sergey Brin
(55:50) – Jeff Bezos
(59:18) – Elon Musk
(1:01:36) – Jensen Huang
(1:04:53) – Mark Zuckerberg
(1:06:21) – Yann LeCun
(1:13:07) – Breakthroughs in AI
(1:29:05) – Curiosity
(1:35:22) – $1 trillion dollar question
(1:50:13) – Perplexity origin story
(2:05:25) – RAG
(2:27:43) – 1 million H100 GPUs
(2:30:15) – Advice for startups
(2:42:52) – Future of search
(3:00:29) – Future of AI
Daniel & Chris sit down with Denis Yarats, Co-founder & CTO at Perplexity, to discuss Perplexity’s sophisticated AI-driven answer engine. Denis outlines some of the deficiencies in search engines, and how Perplexity’s approach to information retrieval improves on traditional search engine systems, with a focus on accuracy and validation of the information provided.
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Show Notes:
Perplexity
Perplexity | Blog
Perplexity | Getting Started
Upcoming Events:
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Aravind Srinivas is the Co-Founder & CEO of Perplexity, the conversational "answer engine" that provides precise, user-focused answers to queries. Aravind co-founded the company in 2022 after working as a research scientist at OpenAI, Google, and DeepMind. To date, Perplexity has raised over $100 million from investors including Jeff Bezos, Nat Friedman, Elad Gil, and Susan Wojciki.
In Today's Episode with Aravind Srinivas We Discuss:
Biggest Lessons from DeepMind & OpenAI
What was the best career advice Sam Altman @ OpenAI gave Aravind?
What were Aravind's biggest takeaways at DeepMind?
How did DeepMind shape how Aravind built Perplexity?
What did Aravind mean by "competition is for losers?" What did he learn about talent assembly at DeepMind?
The Next AI Breakthrough: Reasoning
Does Aravind think we are experiencing diminishing returns on compute & model performance?
Does Aravind agree reasoning will be the next big breakthrough for models?
What are the reasons Aravind thinks models suck at reasoning today?
What is the timeline for reasoning improvement according to Aravind?
What does Aravind think are the biggest misconceptions about AI today?
Will Foundation Models Commoditise?
Does Aravind think foundation models will commoditise? What will the end state of foundation models look like?
Why does Aravind think the second tier models will get commoditised?
Why does Aravind think the subscription model will not work for AI models with true reasoning?
Why does Aravind think the application layer companies will benefit from foundation models commoditising?
Why does Aravind think foundation models will not verticalize?
When does Aravind think is the right time to go enterprise? What is his strategy to differentiate Perplexity from its competitors?
AI Arms Race: Who Will Win?
Who does Aravind think will be the winners of foundation models?
What do AI companies need to do to win the model arms race?
How does Aravind think startups can compete against incumbents' infinite cash flow?
What are the reasons Aravind thinks Perplexity's browsing is better than ChatGPT?
What is Aravind's biggest challenge at Perplexity today?
One of the most preeminent AI founders, Aravind Srinivas (CEO, Perplexity), believes we could see 100+ AI startups valued over $10B in our future. In the episode, we discuss why Perplexity decided to compete with Google and Aravind shares predictions for the utopian future of artificial intelligence. He also discusses the differences between working at both DeepMind and OpenAI, why personalized knowledge on demand could be a trillion-dollar opportunity and more.
(00:00) Intro
(01:34) The Evolution of Search Engines
(04:01) Perplexity: Bridging the Gap Between Google and Wikipedia
(05:04) The Philosophy Behind Perplexity and Its Unique Approach
(06:33) Redefining Search: The Shift from Links to Answers
(09:02) The Business Model Dilemma: Google's Challenge with Innovation
(13:46) The Importance of Aligning Shareholder and User Interests
(27:00) The Complexities of Building a Competitive AI Talent Pool
(33:33) Perplexity's Business Model and Subscription Strategy
(39:54) The Future of Search: Personalization and Real-Time Data
(44:21) Enhancing User Engagement with Suggested Next Questions
(48:10) Key Success Metrics and the Importance of Daily Queries
(50:21) The Challenge of Gaining User Trust
(50:48) Personalizing Products for User Engagement
(50:55) Navigating the AI Model Landscape
(51:40) The Strategic Decision Against Building Own Models
(52:22) Leveraging Open Source Models and Infrastructure Efficiency
(53:37) The Business Model and Value Proposition
(58:12) AI's Potential to Transform Work and Empowerment
(01:03:11) The Future of AI: More Compute or Breakthroughs?
(01:05:39) The Startup Ecosystem and AI's Billion-Dollar Potential
(01:07:26) AI Safety and Regulation: A Founder's Perspective
(01:08:15) Inspirations and Influences: Learning from Larry Page
(01:20:51) Building a User-Centric Product: The Perplexity Journey
(01:36:13) The Future of Perplexity and Changing User Habits
Produced: Rashad Assir & Leah Clapper
Mixed and edited: Justin Hrabovsky
Executive Producer: Josh Machiz
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Logan Bartlett is a Software Investor at Redpoint Ventures - a Silicon Valley-based VC with $6B AUM and investments in Snowflake, DraftKings, Twilio, and Netflix. In each episode, Logan goes behind the scenes with world-class entrepreneurs and investors. If you're interested in the real inside baseball of tech, entrepreneurship, and start-up investing, tune in every Friday for new episodes.
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Logan Bartlett is a Software Investor at Redpoint Ventures - a Silicon Valley-based VC with $6B AUM and investments in Snowflake, DraftKings, Twilio, and Netflix. In each episode of The Logan Bartlett Show, we sit down with the people behind today’s most important startups and extract the tactics, lessons, and frameworks they’ve learned the hard way. Conversations span hiring to GTM, product, growth, fundraising and everything in between - collectively forming the ultimate playbook to make you a better CEO, investor or board member.
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Perplexity CEO Aravind Srinivas tell Chris and I to expect more partnerships like the recent one with Yelp; how Perplexity thinks of search differently than Google does; and the competition Perplexity fears beyond Google.
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Join host Craig Smith on episode #175 of Eye on AI as he engages in an enlightening conversation with Aravind Srinivas, co-founder and CEO of Perplexity AI.
In this episode, Aravind delves into the intricacies of Perplexity AI, a groundbreaking conversational answer engine designed to redefine the landscape of online search.
Discover how Perplexity AI aims to challenge the status quo of search engines by providing direct answers grounded in factual sources, contrasting with the traditional method of sifting through links.
Learn about the challenges and breakthroughs in developing a search engine that combines the reliability of verified information with the intuitive interaction of conversational AI.
Dive into the technical and philosophical nuances of building a search platform that stands to transform how we access information online. Explore the intersection of AI, entrepreneurship, and the relentless pursuit of innovation that drives the team at Perplexity AI.
Remember to rate us on Apple Podcast and Spotify if this episode piques your curiosity about the evolving interface of AI and information retrieval!"
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(00:00) Introduction to Perplexity AI with Aravind Srinivas
(02:26) Aravind Srinivas's Background
(04:17) Early Influences and The Shift to Generative AI
(06:30) Ideation and Entrepreneurial Leap to Start Perplexity AI
(09:44) Challenges of Building a New AI-Powered Search Engine
(13:53) The Journey from Idea to Market with Perplexity AI
(17:34) Overcoming Technical and Market Challenges
(23:44) Disrupting Traditional Search with AI Innovation
(30:08) Building Perplexity's AI and Indexing Technology
(37:13) The Future of Web Indexing and AI's Role
(41:29) Navigating Legal and Ethical Aspects of AI Search
(52:39) Concluding Thoughts and The Road Ahead for Perplexity AI
My guest today is Aravind Srinivas. He is the founder and CEO of Perplexity, a startup that he describes as an “answer engine” built from scratch with AI. Aravind has set out for perplexity to become the most powerful answer engine backed by up-to-date sources. He helps me pick the technology apart, describing the behind the scenes of what it takes to build Perplexity to reach its potential and compete alongside the likes of Google and OpenAI. Our conversation goes deep into programming this type of infrastructure, the competition around latency, and constructing a business model around deep learning. There is so much on this horizon, so please enjoy my conversation with Aravind Srinivas.
Listen to Founders Podcast
For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page here.
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Invest Like the Best is a property of Colossus, LLC. For more episodes of Invest Like the Best, visit joincolossus.com/episodes.
Past guests include Tobi Lutke, Kevin Systrom, Mike Krieger, John Collison, Kat Cole, Marc Andreessen, Matthew Ball, Bill Gurley, Anu Hariharan, Ben Thompson, and many more.
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Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant (https://thepodcastconsultant.com).
Show Notes:
(00:00:00) Welcome to Invest Like the Best
(00:04:08) First Question - Redefining 'Great' in Search
(00:07:16) The Mechanics of Perplexity
(00:10:59) The Evolution of Perplexity From Wrapper to Robust Infrastructure
(00:13:19) The Future of Large Language Models (LLMs)
(00:22:39) Aravind's Strategy For Constructing The Business Model
(00:28:16) The Process of Building an Index for a Search Engine
(00:35:55) The Impact of Scaling and Data Quality on AI Models
(00:40:00) Bottlenecks in AI Development
(00:47:06) The Talent Landscape in AI
(00:57:59) The Vision for the Future of Search
(01:00:19) Importance of Execution in AI Startups
It used to feel like magic. Now it can feel like a set of cheap tricks. Is the problem with Google — or with us? And is Google Search finally facing a real rival, in the form of A.I.-powered “answer engines”?
SOURCES:Marissa Mayer, co-founder of Sunshine; former C.E.O. of Yahoo! and vice president at Google.
Ryan McDevitt; professor of economics at Duke University.
Tim Hwang, media researcher and author; former Google employee.
Elizabeth Reid, vice president of Search at Google.
Aravind Srinivas, C.E.O. and co-founder of Perplexity.
Jeremy Stoppelman, C.E.O. and co-founder of Yelp.
RESOURCES:“A Fraudster Who Just Can’t Seem to Stop … Selling Eyeglasses,” by David Segal (The New York Times, 2022).
Subprime Attention Crisis: Advertising and the Time Bomb at the Heart of the Internet, by Tim Hwang (2020).
“Complaint: U.S. and Plaintiff States v. Google LLC,” by the U.S. Department of Justice (2020).
“Fake Online Locksmiths May Be Out to Pick Your Pocket, Too,” by David Segal (The New York Times, 2016).
“‘A’ Business by Any Other Name: Firm Name Choice as a Signal of Firm Quality,” by Ryan C. McDevitt (Journal of Political Economy, 2014).
In the Plex: How Google Thinks, Works, and Shapes Our Lives, by Steven Levy (2011).
“The Anatomy of a Large-Scale Hypertextual Web Search Engine,” by Sergey Brin and Lawrence Page (Computer Networks and ISDN Systems, 1998).
EXTRAS:“Is Dialysis a Test Case of Medicare for All?” by Freakonomics Radio (2021).
“How Big is My Penis? (And Other Things We Ask Google),” by Freakonomics Radio (2017).
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A year ago, a chatbot tried to break up Kevin Roose’s marriage. Ever since, chatbots haven’t been the same. We’ll tell you how. Then, we’ll talk through the latest ways the world is adapting to artificial intelligence. And finally, Aravind Srinivas, the chief executive of Perplexity, will discuss his company’s “answer engine,” a challenger to Google’s search engine that could reshape the web as we know it.
Today’s guest:
Aravind Srinivas, chief executive of Perplexity
Additional Reading:
The Year Chatbots Were Tamed
OpenAI Gives ChatGPT a Better ‘Memory’
Google Releases Gemini, an A.I.-Driven Chatbot and Voice Assistant
Sam Altman Seeks Trillions of Dollars to Reshape Business of Chips and AI
Lawmakers propose anti-nonconsensual AI porn bill after Taylor Swift controversy
Sarah Silverman’s lawsuit against OpenAI partially dismissed
Can This A.I.-Powered Search Engine Replace Google? It Has for Me.
We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com.
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Aravind Srinivas is the CEO of Perplexity, an AI-powered search engine that answers queries with a few paragraphs in natural language. Srinivas joins the show to discuss how his company might threaten Google search, and whether conversational AI search is actually similar to traditional search at all. Tune into the second half where we discuss Aravind's perspective on how AI search might help or hurt news publishers. We also discuss Jeff Bezos's investment in Perplexity and where the cutting edge of AI is moving next. Tune in for a candid conversation with the CEO of the hottest AI startup in the world.
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In this episode, Aravind Srinivas of Perplexity AI returns to the show. They discuss Perplexity’s growth to millions of queries per day, CEO Aravind’s favourite Perplexity use cases, and how Perplexity ships fast in a competitive landscape against Google and major AI live players creating their own search engines. If you're looking for an ERP platform, check out our sponsor, NetSuite: http://netsuite.com/cognitive
We're hiring across the board at Turpentine and for Erik's personal team on other projects he's incubating. He's hiring a Chief of Staff, EA, Head of Special Projects, Investment Associate, and more. For a list of JDs, check out: eriktorenberg.com.
SPONSORS: Shopify | NetSuite | Omneky
Shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business. Shopify powers 10% of ALL eCommerce in the US. And Shopify's the global force behind Allbirds, Rothy's, and Brooklinen, and 1,000,000s of other entrepreneurs across 175 countries.From their all-in-one e-commerce platform, to their in-person POS system – wherever and whatever you're selling, Shopify's got you covered. With free Shopify Magic, sell more with less effort by whipping up captivating content that converts – from blog posts to product descriptions using AI. Sign up for $1/month trial period: https://shopify.com/cognitive
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X:
@labenz (Nathan)
@AravSrinivas (Aravind)
@eriktorenberg (Erik)
@cogrev_podcast
LINKS:
- Perplexity AI: https://www.perplexity.ai/
- Part 1 with Aravind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSYQZZu4MEM
TIMESTAMPS:
(00:00:00) - Episode Preview
(00:01:12) - Introducing Aravind Srinivas and Perplexity AI
(00:05:05) - Perplexity's growth to millions of queries per day
(00:06:21) - Perplexity's retention and market share vs. ChatGPT
(00:08:32) - Improving reliability, speed, accuracy, and new features
(00:10:33) - Getting to daily usage from weekly usage
(00:13:21) - Aravind's favorite Perplexity use cases
(00:18:34) - Issues with lack of sufficient web coverage for hard queries
(00:18:38) - Sponsors: Netsuite | Omneky
(00:23:13) - Building their own search index and models for self-sufficiency
(00:26:29) - Using their own index vs real-time web queries
(00:28:43) - Integrating default search and Copilot companion experiences
(00:31:49) - Training their own models as the only viable long-term option
(00:36:56) - The web becoming more like an API accessed via AI assistants
(00:41:23) - Not trying to copy Google's business model
(00:44:36) - Spending more on compute than people to get scale efficiencies
(00:49:35) - Replacing all parts of the stack with their own proprietary versions
(00:53:59) - Shipping fast out of necessity in a competitive war zone
(00:58:00) - AI assistants becoming a significant part of human digital activity
The Cognitive Revolution is brought to you by the Turpentine Media network.
Producer: Vivian Meng
Executive Producers: Amelia Salyers, and Erik Torenberg
Editor: Graham Bessellieu
For inquiries about guests or sponsoring the podcast, please email vivian@turpentine.co
Code Interpreter is GA! As we do with breaking news, we convened an emergency pod and >17,000 people tuned in, by far our most biggest ever. This is a 2-for-1 post - a longform essay with our trademark executive summary and core insights - and a podcast capturing day-after reactions. Don’t miss either of them!
Essay and transcript: https://latent.space/p/code-interpreter
Podcast Timestamps
[00:00:00] Intro - Simon and Alex
[00:07:40] Code Interpreter for Edge Cases
[00:08:59] Code Interpreter's Dependencies - Tesseract, Tensorflow
[00:09:46] Code Interpreter Limitations
[00:10:16] Uploading Deno, Lua, and other Python Packages to Code Interpreter
[00:11:46] Code Interpreter Timeouts and Environment Resets
[00:13:59] Code Interpreter for Refactoring
[00:15:12] Code Interpreter Context Window
[00:15:34] Uploading git repos
[00:16:17] Code Interpreter Security
[00:18:57] Jailbreaking
[00:19:54] Code Interpreter cannot call GPT APIs
[00:21:45] Hallucinating Lack of Capability
[00:22:27] Code Interpreter Installed Libraries and Capabilities
[00:23:44] Code Interpreter generating interactive diagrams
[00:25:04] Code Interpreter has Torch and Torchaudio
[00:25:49] Code Interpreter for video editing
[00:27:14] Code Interpreter for Data Analysis
[00:28:14] Simon's Whole Foods Crime Analysis
[00:31:29] Code Interpreter Network Access
[00:33:28] System Prompt for Code Interpreter
[00:35:12] Subprocess run in Code Interpreter
[00:36:57] Code Interpreter for Microbenchmarks
[00:37:30] System Specs of Code Interpreter
[00:38:18] PyTorch in Code Interpreter
[00:39:35] How to obtain Code Interpreter RAM
[00:40:47] Code Interpreter for Face Detection
[00:42:56] Code Interpreter yielding for Human Input
[00:43:56] Tip: Ask for multiple options
[00:44:37] The Masculine Urge to Start a Vector DB Startup
[00:46:00] Extracting tokens from the Code Interpreter environment?
[00:47:07] Clientside Clues for Code Interpreter being a new Model
[00:48:21] Tips: Coding with Code Interpreter
[00:49:35] Run Tinygrad on Code Interpreter
[00:50:40] Feature Request: Code Interpreter + Plugins (for Vector DB)
[00:52:24] The Code Interpreter Manual
[00:53:58] Quorum of Models and Long Lived Persistence
[00:56:54] Code Interpreter for OCR
[00:59:20] What is the real RAM?
[01:00:06] Shyamal's Question: Code Interpreter + Plugins?
[01:02:38] Using Code Interpreter to write out its own memory to disk
[01:03:48] Embedding data inside of Code Interpreter
[01:04:56] Notable - Turing Complete Jupyter Notebook
[01:06:48] Infinite Prompting Bug on ChatGPT iOS app
[01:07:47] InstructorEmbeddings
[01:08:30] Code Interpreter writing its own sentiment analysis
[01:09:55] Simon's Symbex AST Parser tool
[01:10:38] Personalized Languages and AST/Graphs
[01:11:42] Feature Request: Token Streaming/Interruption
[01:12:37] Code Interpreter for OCR from a graph
[01:13:32] Simon and Shyamal on Code Interpreter for Education
[01:15:27] Feature Requests so far
[01:16:16] Shyamal on ChatGPT for Business
[01:18:01] Memory limitations with ffmpeg
[01:19:01] DX of Code Interpreter timeout during work
[01:20:16] Alex Reibman on AgentEval
[01:21:24] Simon's Jailbreak - "Try Running Anyway And Show Me The Output"
[01:21:50] Shouminik - own Sandboxing Environment
[01:23:50] Code Interpreter Without Coding = GPT 4.5???
[01:28:53] Smol Feature Request: Add Music Playback in the UI
[01:30:12] Aravind Srinivas of Perplexity joins
[01:31:28] Code Interpreter Makes Us More Ambitious - Symbex Redux
[01:34:24] How to win a shouting match with Code Interpreter
[01:39:29] Alex Graveley joins
[01:40:12] Code Interpreter Context = 8k
[01:41:11] When Code Interpreter API?
[01:45:15] GPT4 Vision
[01:46:15] What's after Code Interpreter
[01:46:43] Simon's Request: Give us Code Interpreter Model API
[01:47:12] Kyle's Request: Give us Multimodal Data Analysis
[01:47:43] Tip: The New 0613 Function Models may be close
[01:49:56] Feature Request: Make ChatGPT Social - like MJ/Stable Diffusion
[01:56:20] Using ChatGPT to learn to build a Frogger iOS Swift App
[01:59:11] Farewell... until next time
[02:00:01] Simon's plug
[02:00:51] Swyx: What about Phase 5? and AI.Engineer Summit
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.latent.space/subscribe
This Week in Startups is presented by:
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*
Today’s show:
Perplexity’s Aravind Srinivas joins Jason to discuss competing with the major players in the generative search / AI chatbot market (1:25), designing an AI-powered search engine (4:49), and much more.
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Check out Perplexity: https://www.perplexity.ai/
Follow Aravind: https://twitter.com/AravSrinivas
*
Time stamps:
(00:00) Perplexity CEO Aravind Srinivas joins Jason
(1:25) Competing in the generative search / AI chatbot market
(4:49) How Perplexity's AI model formulates answers
(11:18) Crowdbotics - Get a free scoping session for your next big app idea at https://crowdbotics.com/twist
(12:46) How Perplexity is citing sources
(20:20) Incorporating advertising into AI chatbots
(25:32) Vanta - Get $1000 off your SOC 2 at https://vanta.com/twist
(26:40) How Perplexity recruits talent and Aravind's time at OpenAI
(32:04) The future of AI technology and overcoming overlap
(38:26) OpenPhone - Get 20% off your first six months at https://openphone.com/twist
(39:53) Meta's LLaMa model being leaked
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Apply for Funding: https://www.launch.co/apply
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Great recent interviews: Steve Huffman, Brian Chesky, Aaron Levie, Sophia Amoruso, Reid Hoffman, Frank Slootman, Billy McFarland, PrayingForExits, Jenny Lefcourt
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YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/thisweekin
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Subscribe to the Founder University Podcast: https://www.founder.university/podcast
https://www.perplexity.ai/
https://www.perplexity.ai/iphone
https://www.perplexity.ai/android
Interview with Aravind Srinivas, CEO and Co-Founder of Perplexity AI – Revolutionizing Learning with Conversational Search Engines
Dr. Tim Scarfe talks with Dr. Aravind Srinivas, CEO and Co-Founder of Perplexity AI, about his journey from studying AI and reinforcement learning at UC Berkeley to launching Perplexity – a startup that aims to revolutionize learning through the power of conversational search engines. By combining the strengths of large language models like GPT-* with search engines, Perplexity provides users with direct answers to their questions in a decluttered user interface, making the learning process not only more efficient but also enjoyable.
Aravind shares his insights on how advertising can be made more relevant and less intrusive with the help of large language models, emphasizing the importance of transparency in relevance ranking to improve user experience. He also discusses the challenge of balancing the interests of users and advertisers for long-term success.
The interview delves into the challenges of maintaining truthfulness and balancing opinions and facts in a world where algorithmic truth is difficult to achieve. Aravind believes that opinionated models can be useful as long as they don't spread misinformation and are transparent about being opinions. He also emphasizes the importance of allowing users to correct or update information, making the platform more adaptable and dynamic.
Lastly, Aravind shares his thoughts on embracing a digital society with large language models, stressing the need for frequent and iterative deployments of these models to reduce fear of AI and misinformation. He envisions a future where using AI tools effectively requires clear thinking and first-principle reasoning, ultimately benefiting society as a whole. Education and transparency are crucial to counter potential misuse of AI for political or malicious purposes.
YT version: https://youtu.be/_vMOWw3uYvk
Aravind Srinivas:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/aravind-srinivas-16051987/
https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=GhrKC1gAAAAJ&hl=en
https://twitter.com/aravsrinivas?lang=en
Interviewer: Dr. Tim Scarfe (CTO XRAI Glass)
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mlst
Discord: https://discord.gg/ESrGqhf5CB
TOC:
Introduction and Background of Perplexity AI [00:00:00]
The Importance of a Decluttered UI and User Experience [00:04:19]
Advertising in Search Engines and Potential Improvements [00:09:02]
Challenges and Opportunities in this new Search Modality [00:18:17]
Benefits of Perplexity and Personalized Learning [00:21:27]
Objective Truth and Personalized Wikipedia [00:26:34]
Opinions and Truth in Answer Engines [00:30:53]
Embracing the Digital Society with Language Models [00:37:30]
Impact on Jobs and Future of Learning [00:40:13]
Educating users on when perplexity works and doesn't work [00:43:13]
Improving user experience and the possibilities of voice-to-voice interaction [00:45:04]
The future of language models and auto-regressive models [00:49:51]
Performance of GPT-4 and potential improvements [00:52:31]
Building the ultimate research and knowledge assistant [00:55:33]
Revolutionizing note-taking and personal knowledge stores [00:58:16]
References:
Evaluating Verifiability in Generative Search Engines (Nelson F. Liu et al, Stanford University)
https://arxiv.org/pdf/2304.09848.pdf
Note: this was a sponsored interview.
With advances in machine learning, the way we search for information online will never be the same.
This week on the No Priors podcast, we dive into a startup that aims to be the most trustworthy place to search for information online. Perplexity.ai is a search engine that provides answers to questions in a conversational way and hints at what the future of search might look like.
Aravind Srinivas is a Co-founder and CEO of Perplexity. He is a former research scientist at Open AI and completed his PhD in computer science at University of California Berkeley.
Denis Yarats is a Co-Founder and Perplexity’s CTO. He has a background in machine learning, having worked as a Research Scientist at Facebook AI Research and a machine learning engineer at Quora.
No Priors is now on YouTube! Subscribe to the channel on YouTube and like this episode.
Show Links:
Aravind Srinivas on Google Scholar
Denis Yarats on Google Scholar
Perplexity AI
Perplexity AI Discord
AI Chatbots Are Coming to Search Engines. Can You Trust Them? - Scientific American
Sign up for new podcasts every week. Email feedback to show@no-priors.com
Follow us on Twitter: @NoPriorsPod | @Saranormous | @EladGil | @AravSrinivas | @denisyarats
Show Notes:
[1:46] - How Perplexity AI iterates quickly and how the company has changed over time
[5:46] - Approach to hiring and building a fast-paced team
[10:43] - Why you don’t need AI pedigree to transition to work or research AI
[14:01] - Challenges when transitioning from AI research to running a company as CEO & CTO
[16:50] - Why Perplexity only shows answers it can cite
[19:33] - How Perplexity approaches reinforcement learning
[20:49] - Trustworthiness and if an answer engine needs a personality
[23:05] - Why answer engines will become their own market segment
[26:38] - Implications of “the era of fewer clicks” on publishers and advertisers
[30:20] - Monetization strategy
[33:20] - Advice for those deciding between academia or startups
We talked to Aravind Srinivas about competing with the tech giants, Perplexity's product philosophy and obsession with maximizing value delivered to the user per unit time, and the features that makes Perplexity unique.
We're hiring across the board at Turpentine and for Erik's personal team on other projects he's incubating. He's hiring a Chief of Staff, EA, Head of Special Projects, Investment Associate, and more. For a list of JDs, check out: eriktorenberg.com.
(0:00) Preview
(1:31) Introduction & Context
(08:06) Aravind’s vision for Perplexity as the world’s most truth-centric company
(9:29) Raising the average IQ of the world
(12:00) Aravind’s favorite tech entrepreneur
(15:12) “Anthropics” - Building your own model vs user experience
(33:00) Why is perplexity free
(43:00) Talking shop: Perplexity’s tech stack and speed
(1:06:00) Perplexity’s stance on guardrails on search
(1:19:48) Forecasting weakly general AGI: The four criteria
(1:28:00) Aravind’s perspective on OpenAI and the future of AGI
(1:39:00) The Cognitive Revolution’s rapid fire questions: Neuralink implant? Most used AI tools? AI hopes and fears?
Twitter handles:
@CogRev_Podcast
@AravSrinivas (Aravind)
@labenz (Nathan)
@eriktorenberg (Erik)
SPONSOR: SHOPIFY:
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Join 1000's of subscribers of our Substack: https://cognitiverevolution.substack.com/
References & Shownotes:
Flamingo: https://www.deepmind.com/blog/tackling-multiple-tasks-with-a-single-visual-language-model
Decision Transformer Paper: https://arxiv.org/abs/2106.01345
Aravind on TalkRL Podcast: https://www.talkrl.com/episodes/aravind-srinivas-2
Weakly General AGI Criteria: https://www.metaculus.com/questions/3479/date-weakly-general-ai-is-publicly-known/
RECOMMENDED PODCAST:
The HR industry is at a crossroads. What will it take to construct the next generation of incredible businesses – and where can people leaders have the most business impact? Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can only happen between seasoned practitioners, Kelli and Nolan dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors. Check out the first episode with the architect of Netflix’s culture deck Patty McCord.
https://link.chtbl.com/hrheretics
This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at erik@turpentine.co.
According to Yann Le Cun, the next big thing in machine learning is unsupervised learning. Self-supervision has changed the entire game in the last few years in deep learning, first transforming the language world with word2vec and BERT -- but now it's turning computer vision upside down.
This week Yannic, Connor and I spoke with one of the authors, Aravind Srinivas who recently co-led the hot-off-the-press CURL: Contrastive Unsupervised Representations for Reinforcement Learning alongside Michael (Misha) Laskin. CURL has had an incredible reception in the ML community in the last month or so. Remember the Deep Mind paper which solved the Atari games using the raw pixels? Aravind's approach uses contrastive unsupervised learning to featurise the pixels before applying RL. CURL is the first image-based algorithm to nearly match the sample-efficiency and performance of methods that use state-based features! This is a huge step forwards in being able to apply RL in the real world.
We explore RL and self-supervision for computer vision in detail and find out about how Aravind got into machine learning.
Original YouTube Video: https://youtu.be/1MprzvYNpY8
Paper:
CURL: Contrastive Unsupervised Representations for Reinforcement Learning
Aravind Srinivas, Michael Laskin, Pieter Abbeel
https://arxiv.org/pdf/2004.04136.pdf
Yannic's analysis video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg2Q_O5b9w4
#machinelearning #reinforcementlearning #curl #timscarfe #yannickilcher #connorshorten
Music credit; https://soundcloud.com/errxrmusic/in-my-mind
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