Fourteen days. That's the window the crypto industry has to get the CLARITY Act through the Senate — or wait until the 2030s for another shot.The combined draft dropped last week for the first time, merging the Senate Banking and Agriculture committee text into one bill. It added a law enforcement title (the Fraternal Order of Police endorsed it the same day). It added an ethics provision. And Democrats are rejecting that provision outright.This week on The Defiant, we're bringing three people living this fight from the inside: Miller Whitehouse-Levine (Solana Policy Institute), Amanda Tuminelli (DeFi Education Fund), an...
Rebecca from Jito Labs joins Haseeb, Tom, and Tarun for a regulation deep-dive covering the CLARITY Act's stablecoin yield compromise and presidential ethics sticking points, CME and ICE's lobbying war against Hyperliquid's RWA perps, the prediction market legal battle heading to the Supreme Court, and whether the SEC's tokenized securities innovation exemption will actually matter.
Welcome to The Chopping Block – where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest in crypto. This week, joining us is Rebecca Rettig, Chief Legal Officer at Jito Labs, who's here to help the crew make sense of the absolute regulatory tornado tearing through the industry.
First up: the CLARITY Act. It just got out of Senate Banking Committee, but the road to passage is anything but smooth. The stablecoin yield fight with banks ended in a "do stuff yield" compromise, but presidential ethics provisions remain the last polarizing hurdle. Rebecca breaks down what actually changes for token founders if it passes — spoiler: not much immediately, since rulemaking alone could take years.
Then: CME and ICE have declared war on Hyperliquid, lobbying the Hill to force CFTC registration on the decentralized perps giant. The crew debates who actually wins US regulated perps, whether Hyperliquid's pre-IPO markets represent a genuine threat to investment banking, and Rebecca introduces "on-chain finance" — a distinction the panel immediately roasts her for.
Finally: prediction markets are in a legal bloodbath across state courts with a Supreme Court showdown likely by 2027, and the SEC's tokenized securities innovation exemption has Twitter buzzing but Rebecca skeptical. Let's get into it.
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pods, Fountain, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.
Show highlights
🔹 CLARITY Act Passes Senate Banking – Landmark crypto bill advances with bipartisan support, but presidential ethics provisions remain the final sticking point before a full Senate floor vote.
🔹 Stablecoin Yield Compromise – Banks screamed bloody murder, but the "do stuff yield" deal means transaction-based rewards are in and bank deposit lookalikes are out.
🔹 CME & ICE vs Hyperliquid – Traditional exchanges lobby Congress to force CFTC registration, KYC/AML, and trade surveillance on the decentralized perps giant.
🔹 Hyperliquid Prices Cerebras Better Than Bankers – Pre-IPO market nails the opening price while investment banks undershoot by over 100%, raising questions about the future of book building.
🔹 Rebecca Rettig Returns – Jito Labs CLO breaks down what CLARITY actually means for token founders (spoiler: not much changes immediately — rulemaking takes years).
🔹 Prediction Markets Head to SCOTUS – Legal bloodbath across state courts likely culminates in a Supreme Court showdown by 2027 over CFTC vs state gaming jurisdiction.
🔹 The Super Bowl Coin Toss Traded at 58/42 – Tarun surfaces the most absurd prediction market of the year, and the CFTC chair basically says it shouldn't exist.
🔹 Who Wins US Regulated Perps? – Haseeb bets on Coinbase and Robinhood, Tarun argues there's an opening for a dark horse, and Rebecca flags HIP 4's unified margin as a game-changer.
🔹 SEC Innovation Exemption Buzz – Twitter is hyped about tokenized securities guidance, but Rebecca is skeptical it drops before CLARITY is resolved.
🔹 OnFi Is Not Going to Happen – Rebecca tries to coin "on-chain finance" as distinct from DeFi. The panel roasts her. Mean Girls memes are inevitable.
Hosts
⭐️Haseeb Qureshi, Managing Partner at Dragonfly
⭐️Tarun Chitra, Managing Partner at Robot Ventures
⭐️Tom Schmidt, General Partner at Dragonfly
Guest
⭐️ Rebecca Rettig, Jurisprudential Genius at Jito Labs
Timestamps
00:00 Intro
02:10 The CLARITY Act: Banks vs Crypto
05:21 The "Do Stuff Yield" Compromise
07:18 The Compromise: Transaction-Based Rewards
10:22 Presidential Ethics: The Last Sticking Point
12:26 What Actually Changes If CLARITY Passes?
16:01 Token Founders: What Do You Have to Do?
18:41 Developer Protection & DeFi Activity
20:15 CME & ICE Lobbying Against Hyperliquid
26:05 On-Chain Finance vs DeFi
29:57 Who Wins US Regulated Perps?
34:39 ETF Options vs Crypto Perps
40:24 What Hyperliquid Means for Investment Banking
44:50 Retail IPO Participation & Dynamic Share Counts
49:25 Prediction Markets: Kalshi & Polymarket vs the States
51:40 Supreme Court Showdown: CFTC vs State Gaming Laws
58:30 Economic Impact Test
01:01:47 Tokenized Securities & the SEC Innovation Exemption
01:06:41 Do Issuers Actually Care About Tokenization?
Disclosures
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
This week, Rebecca Rettig joins the show to discuss the latest happening in Washington and what it means for crypto. We deep dive into the Clarity act, how to regulate prediction markets, who's crypto's enemy now, the state of crypto VC, LayerZero's Zero announcement and more. Enjoy!
--
Follow Rebecca: https://x.com/RebeccaRettig1
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Follow Santi: https://x.com/santiagoroel
Follow Empire: https://x.com/theempirepod
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Referenced In The Show: https://open.spotify.com/episode/67w8irQ06j6ZH38FsXSShf?si=5633bb7bb6a248b9&nd=1&dlsi=d7d519562e884e70
--
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--
Timestsamps:
(00:00) Introduction
(01:57) The State of Crypto Policy In DC
(27:24) Coinbase Ad
(28:08) Das Plug
(28:34) Prediction Markets
(36:50) Who’s Crypto’s Enemy Now?
(52:35) The State of Crypto VC
(01:01:15) LayerZero’s Zero Announcement
(01:13:01) Content of The Week
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Disclaimer: Nothing said on Empire is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Santiago, Jason, Rob and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.
Jake Chervinsky and Amanda Tuminelli join us to unpack the Roman Storm verdict—what it means for DeFi, why Section 1960 is a looming threat to open-source developers, and the strong grounds for appeal.
We discuss the legal, political, and legislative paths forward, the role of Congress in protecting developers, and how the crypto industry can mobilize to prevent future prosecutions.
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TIMESTAMPS
0:00 Intro
0:24 Verdict First Impressions
4:22 Was it Successful?
6:26 Second Trial?
9:47 Money Transmitter Debate
15:20 Optimistic Setup?
19:56 Levels of Precedent
26:04 What’s Next?
30:26 Crypto Industry Agency
34:01 Regulatory Acts
37:33 Two Paths
44:35 Trump Administration
49:02 Upcoming Administrations
53:45 Call to Action
56:55 Closing & Disclaimers
------
RESOURCES
Jake Chervinsky
https://x.com/jchervinsky
Amanda Tuminelli
https://x.com/amandatums
DeFi Education Fund
https://www.defieducationfund.org/
Fund Roman Storm
https://freeromanstorm.com/
Fund Alex Pertsev
https://juicebox.money/v2/p/713
------
Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:
https://www.bankless.com/disclosures
Welcome to The Chopping Block – where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest in crypto. In this episode, the crew is joined by special guest Rebecca Rettig, Chief Legal Officer at Jito Labs, to unpack the biggest legislative week in crypto history. The Clarity Act, Genius Act, and Anti-CBDC Act all pass Congress, ushering in what some are calling a regulatory renaissance — or at least, the first real rules of the road. Bitcoin breaks $120K, memecoins rip, and Crypto Week sends shockwaves through Washington. But is the Clarity Act really the win the industry’s been waiting for? Rebecca breaks down the legal nuance, Tarun questions the economic reality, and Haseeb points out Ethereum’s bizarre silence during the biggest policy shift of the decade. Has crypto finally grown up — or just gotten better at playing the game? The gang dissects the laws, the loopholes, and the market’s reaction to it all.
Show highlights
🔹 Clarity Act Passes the House – Landmark crypto bill advances with bipartisan support, aiming to limit SEC power and define digital asset classifications.
🔹 Stablecoins Get a Path Forward – The Genius Act passes alongside Clarity, offering long-awaited regulatory rails for U.S. stablecoin issuers.
🔹 Congress Goes Full Crypto – Three major bills pass the House in one week, marking a historic show of political support for the industry.
🔹 Rebecca Rettig Returns – Jito Labs Chief Legal Officer breaks down what the legislation really means — and what still isn’t clear.
🔹 SEC in the Hot Seat – With CFTC gaining ground, the SEC’s regulatory grip is questioned across policy circles and crypto Twitter.
🔹 Bitcoin Breaks $120K – Markets rally on regulatory momentum and renewed optimism, with BTC setting a new local high.
🔹 Altcoins Catch Fire – SOL, PENGU, and meme tokens explode as traders rotate into risk-on narratives post-legislation.
🔹 Ethereum’s Silence Raises Eyebrows – Despite being at the heart of stablecoin infrastructure, Ethereum’s core voices stay unusually quiet.
🔹 DeFi’s Legal Gray Zone Remains – Tarun argues the bills may shift political winds, but don’t resolve the underlying protocol risk or enforcement ambiguity.
🔹 Crypto Week Becomes a Real Thing – What started as a Trump slogan turns into one of the most consequential weeks in U.S. crypto history.
⭐️Haseeb Qureshi, Managing Partner at Dragonfly
⭐️Robert Leshner, CEO & Co-founder of Superstate
⭐️Tarun Chitra, Managing Partner at Robot Ventures
⭐️Tom Schmidt, General Partner at Dragonfly
Guest
⭐️ Rebecca Rettig, Jurisprudential Genius at Jito Labs
Disclosures
Timestamps
00:00 Intro
01:06 The Genius Act
04:38 Tech Companies & Stablecoins
08:38 Predictions for the Future of Stablecoins
26:25 The Clarity Act Breakdown
32:27 Important Definitions
34:38 New Exemptions for Token Sales
41:12 Mature Blockchain Certification Process
45:27 Defi Activity Exemptions & Regulations
48:03 New Categories for Spot Crypto Registrants
55:52 Solana's Block Assembly Marketplace (BAM)
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Gm! This week, Rebecca Rettig and Alexander Grieve join Jason to unpack the successful crypto week and the 3 pieces of legislation that have passed and will now impact the way stablecoins and crypto move forward in the US landscape.
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Start your day with crypto news, analysis and data from Katherine Ross. Subscribe to the Empire newsletter: https://blockworks.co/newsletter/empire?utm_source=podcasts
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Follow Empire: https://twitter.com/theempirepod
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Mantle is building the financial infrastructure for a tokenised future—bridging traditional finance and on-chain innovation through six integrated product pillars: Mantle Network, mETH Protocol, Function BTC, and the upcoming launches of MantleX, Mantle Banking, and the Mantle Index Four (MI4) Fund. Anchored by one of the largest community-governed treasuries in the industry, valued at over $4 billion, Mantle is delivering institutional-grade products designed for global capital markets.Follow Mantle on X: https://x.com/Mantle_Official
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—
Chapters:
(01:55) Crypto Week Breakdown
(06:04) GENIUS Act
(26:04) Ads (Skale, Katana)
(27:51) CLARITY Act
(38:31) CLARITY Act + ICOs
(42:42) Ads (Skale, Katana)
(44:29) CLARITY Act + DeFi
(55:11) Ads (Mantle, Zenrock, ,LEDN)
(57:41) ANTI-CBDC Act
(01:01:13) Impacts Of These Bills
(01:04:21) Biggest Debates On Bills
—
Disclaimer: Nothing said on Empire is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Santiago, Jason, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.
The crypto industry is fixated on the U.S. Senate.
On Thursday, lawmakers failed to advance the GENIUS Act, the most significant federal stablecoin bill to date. But the story isn’t over.
Behind the process is a drama about potential presidential conflicts, shifting political alliances, and unresolved policy questions.
In this episode, Kristin Smith, CEO of the Blockchain Association and Amanda Tuminelli, executive director and CLO of the DeFi Education Fund, break down:
Why the bill stalled but isn’t dead yet
The role Trump’s crypto ties are playing
Whether Democrats who once backed crypto are turning away
Why advocates are still pushing for a deal this year
Visit our website for breaking news, analysis, op-eds, articles to learn about crypto, and much more: unchainedcrypto.com
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Mantle
Kristin Smith, CEO of the Blockchain Association
Amanda Tuminelli, executive director and CLO of the DeFi Education Fund
Timestamps:
👋 0:00 Intro
📉 2:01 Why the Senate blocked the vote but the bill isn’t dead yet
🔄 5:17 Why some pro-crypto Democrats suddenly flipped
⚖️ 8:08 Key differences between the two competing GENIUS Act proposals
🔄 14:18 Whether lawmakers are starting to shift their crypto stances
🤝 16:05 Can the Senate overcome divisions and get this across the finish line?
🏛️ 18:14 How Trump’s crypto ties are shaping the legislative battle
⏳ 20:46 Is the August deadline already slipping out of reach
📝 22:39 Combining stablecoin and market structure bills
🎉 25:59 Why Kristin says it’s a relief not to have to deal with Gensler anymore
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This week, Republican Representatives Tom Emmer and Patrick McHenry sent a letter pressing SEC Chair Gary Gensler for clarity on how securities laws apply to airdrops.
With billions of dollars worth of tokens airdropped this year alone, projects need clarity more than ever.
In this episode, Amanda Tuminelli, Chief Legal Officer of the DeFi Education Fund, dissects the SEC’s stance on airdrops, why her organization believes the SEC has stretched the legal definition of “compensation” too far, and what Congress might ask Gensler in his upcoming hearing.
Plus, she talks about how the SEC “regrets” any confusion it caused for using the term “crypto assets securities,” since the agency now admits that tokens themselves are not securities.
Show highlights:
Why Amanda believes the SEC’s position on airdrops doesn’t make sense
Why the DeFi Education Fund sued the SEC over the BEBA airdrop
How the SEC’s position on airdrops has been clear for a while, but is “wrong” according to Amanda
Her take on users bypassing the geographic restrictions to claim airdrops in the U.S.
How and why the SEC has changed its language around “crypto assets securities”
How the SEC’s new position on crypto assets implicating securities laws seems to rest on the “embodiment” theory
Why Amanda believes the Supreme Court or Congress may be needed to step in
What Amanda expects Congress to question Gary Gensler about in the hearing next week
Amanda’s takeaways from the first Congressional DeFi hearing last week
How she expects the presidential election will impact the regulatory landscape in the U.S.
Visit our website for breaking news, analysis, op-eds, articles to learn about crypto, and much more: unchainedcrypto.com
Thank you to our sponsors!
Coinbase
iTrustCapital
Polkadot
Mantle
Stellar
Guest
Amanda Tuminelli, Chief legal officer of the DeFi Education Fund
Previous appearances on Unchained:
Gary Gensler’s Case Against Uniswap: Does the SEC Even Stand a Chance?
Is This the End of DeFi? Why the US Government Is Going After Tornado Cash
Links
Airdrops:
Blockworks: Republican Reps. ask Gensler for clarity on how securities laws apply to airdrops -
Gabriel Shapiro’s tweet: “We may *disagree* that the position is correct but it's not unclear.”
CoinDesk: Crypto Airdrops Ban U.S. Users, but Americans Are Claiming Tokens Anyway
SEC’s amended complaint in the Binance case
BEBA case
DeFi Education Fund suing the SEC
First Congressional Hearing on DeFi
Unchained: First Congressional Hearing on DeFi Highlights Divide Between Republicans and Democrats
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
01:42 SEC’s stance on airdrops
04:25 DeFi Education Fund’s lawsuit over BEBA
06:47 Amanda: SEC’s position on airdrops is “wrong”
08:27 Users bypassing geographic restrictions for airdrops
12:47 Why the SEC suddenly apologized for using the term “crypto asset securities” for years
16:47 Amanda’s take on what the SEC’s new theory is for why tokens fall under securities laws
17:43 Why Supreme Court or Congressional involvement is likely needed
19:01 What Congress might ask Gensler in a hearing next week
19:59 Key takeaways from the first Congressional DeFi hearing
20:43 Amanda’s take on how the presidential election might impact crypto
23:45 News Recap
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Welcome to The Chopping Block – where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest news. In this episode, the squad is joined by Rebecca Rettig, Polygon’s Chief Legal & Policy Officer, to dissect the SEC's impact on the crypto landscape, particularly focusing on OpenSea's Wells notice and impending legal challenges.
They discuss the arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram's founder, analyzing the political and cybersecurity ramifications. The conversation shifts to the internal frictions within the Ethereum Foundation and Vitalik Buterin's criticism of DeFi, reflecting the community's mixed reactions. The broader implications for the crypto industry, privacy, and regulatory clarity are highlighted with special insights from guest Rebecca Rettig, who adds depth on the legal and historical context. Wrapping up, they anticipate future challenges and emphasize staying informed.
Show highlights
🔹 Arrest of Telegram founder Pavel Durov in France sparks global free speech and encryption debates.
🔹 Impact of Pavel Durov's charges on Telegram's role in global communication and crypto communities.
🔹 DeFi protocols face challenges with decentralization, privacy, and regulatory pressures.
🔹 OpenSea receives a Wells notice from the SEC, raising concerns about NFT marketplaces and royalty enforcement.
🔹 Ethereum Foundation's spending and Vitalik Buterin's critical comments on DeFi stir community debate.
🔹 Tension between public goods and financial services in Ethereum's future development.
🔹 Real-World Assets (RWAs) and their controversial role in Ethereum's ecosystem.
🔹 Speculation on future Ethereum protocol changes and their impact on network efficiency and user experience.
🔹 Broader implications of the SEC's aggressive stance towards crypto exchanges and NFT platforms.
Hosts
⭐️Haseeb Qureshi, Managing Partner at Dragonfly
⭐️Tom Schmidt, General Partner at Dragonfly
⭐️Tarun Chitra, Managing Partner at Robot Ventures
Special Guest
⭐️Rebecca Rettig, Chief Legal & Policy Officer at Polygon Labs
Disclosures
Links
Plurality philosophy in an incredibly oversized nutshell by Vitalik:
https://vitalik.eth.limo/general/2024/08/21/plurality.html
OpenSea’s response to SEC Wells notice “Taking a stand for a better internet” by Devin Finzer
https://opensea.io/blog/articles/taking-a-stand-for-a-better-internet
Timestamps
00:00 Intro
01:24 Telegram’s Pavel Durov’s Arrest
05:12 Free Speech/Encryption in the Crypto World
09:26 Policy Implications for Tech Platforms
13:57 France's Role and International Reactions
27:49 SEC Targets OpenSea
36:35 SEC’s Jurisdictional Strategies
40:29 Good vs. Bad Actors
45:16 Ethereum Foundation: Public Good or DeFi?
56:43 Vitalik vs. Crypto Twitter
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Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Fountain, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.
On Wednesday, the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) issued a Wells notice to Uniswap Labs, the team behind the prominent decentralized exchange (DEX) Uniswap, signaling a forthcoming enforcement action.
Amanda Tuminelli, Chief Legal Officer at the DeFi Education Fund, joined Unchained to unpack what the case could mean for Uniswap and the overall decentralized finance (DeFi) industry.
Amanda also talks about the DeFi Education Fund's recent lawsuit against the SEC over its airdrop policies and the industry’s need for a proactive counteroffensive approach in dealing with the SEC.
Show highlights:
Why Amanda thinks that the SEC is going to take a “kitchen sink approach” to their charges
How the SEC could make a case that some of the tokens traded via Uniswap are securities
What the next steps are in the case, with a lawsuit possibly coming soon
Whether there’s an inconsistency between the SEC’s position and Judge Failla’s rejection of the motion to dismiss the Coinbase lawsuit
How the different components of Uniswap make it hard to prove that Uniswap Labs is responsible for everything that happens on the protocol
Why the DeFi Education Fund recently filed a lawsuit against the SEC
Why Amanda believes in a “proactive counteroffensive strategy” with the SEC
How Amanda would like legislation to be implemented in the U.S.
Why the Tornado Cash developers are not liable for the actions of third parties such as North Korean hackers, according to Amanda
Why Amanda thinks Uniswap will ultimately win against the SEC
Thank you to our sponsors!
iTrustCapital
Polkadot
Guest
Amanda Tuminelli, Chief Legal Officer at DeFi Education Fund
Previous appearance on Unchained: Is This the End of DeFi? Why the US Government Is Going After Tornado Cash
You’ve got a friend in me: How amicus briefs are helping the crypto industry win over the courts, Amanda’s op-ed for Fortune
Links
Wells Notice
Unchained: SEC Puts DeFi in Its Sights With Potential Uniswap Suit
Unchained: UNI Drops 16% as SEC Targets Uniswap Labs
Uniswap Blog Post on the Wells notice
Marvin Ammori Thread on Wells notice
Other cases:
Fortune: Don't blame Uniswap for crypto scams, judge rules—and she's right
The Block: Three crypto advocacy groups file amicus briefs in Tornado Cash developer Roman Storm's case
The DeFiant: SEC Faces Lawsuit Seeking To Exempt Airdrops From Securities Classification
Unchained: Court Rejects Coinbase's Bid to Dismiss SEC Charges Against It
Social media commentary:
Paul Grewal’s tweet on the potential inconsistencies with the Coinbase case.
Gabriel Shapiro’s tweet on how Uniswap AMM smart contracts are not run by the Uniswap company
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
While there is always a lot of activity on Crypto Legal Front, this particular moment in time feels especially active. Today on the show we have Jake Chervinsky and Amanda Tuminelli, two of crypto’s most impressive lawyers.
Every single court case, of which there are 5 different ones discussed in this episode today, brings new precedent and new clarity to the crypto space. The theme of this episode today might be… crypto bites back.
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------ TIMESTAMPS 00:00:00 Start 00:05:18 Life as a Crypto lawyer 00:10:20 Coinbase Court Case 00:15:21 Are Airdrops Securities 00:19:34 Amanda's Take 00:22:22 Some Bad News 00:27:32 When Can We Expect Clarity? 00:30:11 Politics vs Policy 00:32:39 SEC vs ETH ETFs 00:36:55 ETH ETF Denial? 00:42:59 SEC Lying? 00:50:41 Leveraging Against Corruption 00:55:17 DeFi Education Fund vs SEC 01:03:56 Roman Storm 01:15:06 Can Courts Remain Impartial? 01:16:57 Elections Impact
------ RESOURCES
Amanda https://twitter.com/amandatums
Jake https://twitter.com/jchervinsky
------ Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here: https://www.bankless.com/disclosures
In today's episode, Santi is joined by Rebecca Rettig and Miller Whitehouse to update us on the latest policy concerns impacting crypto. They cover the origins of the DeFi Education Fund and the realities of educating regulators on the novelty of DeFi. They then shift gears and discuss onchain illicit activity that exists, how to find a compromise between permissionless systems and state control, the role stablecoins like USDC play, and reactions to the SEC’s proposed dealer rule that threatens DeFi participation. Rebecca breaks down her recently published paper “Genuine DeFi as Critical Infrastructure” offering a conceptual framework for regulation that leverages DeFi’s transparency while allowing permissionless systems to thrive. Stay tuned for all of this and much more!
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Chainalysis is the blockchain data platform. We provide data, software, services, and research to government agencies, web3 companies, financial institutions, and insurance and cybersecurity companies. Our data powers investigation, compliance, and business intelligence software that has been used to solve some of the world’s most high-profile criminal cases.
For more information, visit www.Chainalysis.com/empire
- -
Timestamps
(0:00) Origin of DeFi Education Fund
(6:10) DeFi Regulatory Framework Paper
(12:35) Educating Regulators
(17:45) Onchain Illicit Activity
(28:59) Chainalysis Ad
(30:04) Compromise for States
(41:52) How Important is US Policy
(51:17) Role of Coinbase & Circle
(1:00:42) SEC Proposed Rule
- -
Resources
Paper
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4607332
DeFi Education Fund
https://www.defieducationfund.org/
- -
Disclaimer: Nothing said on Empire is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Santiago, Jason, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Fountain, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Pandora, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.
Trying to regulate DeFi is a huge challenge because in a truly decentralized system, there should be no centralized actors to make and enforce rules for. This could make combating illicit finance challenging since traditionally, regulation has been targeted at centralized intermediaries. Yet Rebecca Rettig, Chief Legal and Policy Officer at Polygon Labs; Michael Mosier, the co-founder of boutique law firm Arktouros; and Katja Gilman, senior lead for public policy at Polygon Labs, published a paper last week that proposes to do just that.
Rebecca and Michael join Unchained to discuss what prompted them to write the paper, what the difference is between "onchain CeFi" and "genuine DeFi," how targeting high-risk wallets can be one part of the solution, how critical communications transmitters (CCTs) are another piece of the puzzle, and what next steps they are pursuing.
Show highlights:
The motivations behind their paper and Michael and Rebecca’s legal backgrounds
Why Michael views the Bank Secrecy Act as outdated in the context of DeFi
How critical KYC and AML compliance is for the integrity of DeFi
What Rebecca identifies as the principal risks in the DeFi sector
Why their proposal targets the protocol layer for effective DeFi regulation
How "onchain CeFi" differs fundamentally from "genuine DeFi"
Whether a decentralized protocol can be effectively regulated when controlled by a DAO
How if DeFi were to be classified as critical infrastructure by the Cyber and Information Security Agency (CISA), it would impact the sector
Whether the critical components of blockchain networks, such as RPCs, can be regulated effectively
How categorizing wallets based on risk can be one part of the solution to fighting illicit finance
Why Rebecca considers Tornado Cash a prime example of “genuine DeFi”
What steps Rebecca and Michael plan to take next following the publication of their paper
Thank you to our sponsors!
Popcorn Network
Polkadot
Guest:
Rebecca Rettig, Chief Legal and Policy Officer at Polygon Labs
Previous appearances on Unchained:
Just a Coincidence? Coinbase and Polygon Lawyers See Bad Omens in SEC Crackdown
Kik’s Surprising Move in Its Lawsuit With the SEC
Michael Mosier, cofounder of Arktouros PLLC
Links
Previous coverage of Unchained on the topic: Could the Bank Secrecy Act Harm Crypto? Coin Center Thinks So
Full paper: Genuine DeFi as Critical Infrastructure: A Conceptual Framework for Combating Illicit Finance Activity in Decentralized Finance
Rebecca’s thread
Coin Center: Broad, Ambiguous, or Delegated: Constitutional Infirmities of the Bank Secrecy Act
Tornado Cash
Unchained: Given the Sanctions on Tornado Cash, Is Ethereum Censorship Resistant?
Illicit funds in crypto:
Unchained: How Much Money Are Terrorists Actually Raising in Crypto?
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In the latest episode of the Empire Policy Series, Santi hosts Rebecca Rettig and Jake Chervinsky to delve into recent allegations of Hamas leveraging cryptocurrency for terrorism funding, FinCEN's upcoming rules concerning crypto mixers, and the IRS's evolving crypto tax regulations. The trio also dissect the the forthcoming 3-6 months of crypto regulation and discuss recent bipartisan legislative triumphs in the stablecoin domain. To close out both Rebecca and Jake highlight the need for industry-wide collaboration to ensure regulations both foster innovation and effectively mitigate inherent risks.
- -
Timestamps:
(0:00) Introduction
(1:31) Is Crypto Financing Terrorism?
(11:37) Policy Maker Responses to Crypto Terrorism
(18:34) Chainalysis Ad
(19:38) Mixer Rule by Financial Crimes Enforcement Network
(31:49) Defining the Mixer Use Case
(45:22) Tax Provision for Crypto
(51:59) Regulatory Outlook
- -
Follow Rebecca: https://twitter.com/RebeccaRettig1
Follow Jake: https://twitter.com/jchervinsky
Follow Jason: https://twitter.com/JasonYanowitz
Follow Santi: https://twitter.com/santiagoroel
Follow Empire: https://twitter.com/theempirepod
Subscribe on YouTube: https://tinyurl.com/4fdhhb2j
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- -
This episode is brought to you by Chainalysis.
Chainalysis is the blockchain data platform. We provide data, software, services, and research to government agencies, web3 companies, financial institutions, and insurance and cybersecurity companies. Our data powers investigation, compliance, and business intelligence software that has been used to solve some of the world’s most high-profile criminal cases.
For more information, visit www.Chainalysis.com/empire.
- -
Resources
Submit a comment on regulation
https://www.protectdefi.org/
DeFi Education Fund
https://www.defieducationfund.org/
The Blockchain Association
https://theblockchainassociation.org/
https://twitter.com/BlockchainAssn
- -
Disclaimer: Nothing said on Empire is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Santiago, Jason, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.
🚨LEAVE A COMMENT🚨 https://treasuryraid.lexpunk.army/
We need to stop the US from killing crypto. The new IRS proposals could effectively destroy DeFi and other crypto use cases.
The good news? We can change this. 5 minutes is all it takes to leave a comment and get the interpretation delayed.
In this episode, we bring on Miller Whitehouse-Levine of the DeFi Education Fund and tax lawyer Jason Schwartz to discuss the proposed rules and their catastrophic implications.
----- 🔐 Get a Free Trial of Doppel https://bankless.cc/doppel
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🐙KRAKEN | MOST-TRUSTED CRYPTO EXCHANGE https://k.xyz/bankless-pod-q2
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⚖️ ARBITRUM | SCALING ETHEREUM https://bankless.cc/Arbitrum
🗣️TOKU | CRYPTO EMPLOYMENT SOLUTION https://bankless.cc/Toku
🦄UNISWAP | ON-CHAIN MARKETPLACE https://bankless.cc/uniswap
🔗 CELO | CEL2 COMING SOON https://bankless.cc/Celo
------ TIMESTAMPS
0:00 Intro 6:30 Miller and Jason 8:15 The Broker Laws 15:30 Proposed Regulation 20:50 Endgame Oversight 26:00 They Hate Crypto 31:00 The Comment Process 36:40 New Crypto Tax Tools 42:00 So What Happens… 46:30 Pressuring the Departments 50:50 How We Can Win 56:20 What We Have to Do
——— RESOURCES
Miller Whitehouse-Levine https://x.com/millercwl?s=20
Jason Schwartz https://x.com/CryptoTaxGuyETH?s=20
Get Involved https://x.com/LeXpunK_Army/status/1713186443445629429?s=20 https://x.com/CryptoTaxGuyETH/status/1695603888957641154?s=20 https://x.com/fund_defi/status/1713929569030275285?s=20
------ Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here: https://www.bankless.com/disclosures
Jason is joined by Rebecca Rettig and Jake Chervinsky in today's special Policy Series episode to tackle the monumental implications of Grayscale ETF decision, Uniswap case dismissal and Tornado Cash indictments. They discuss how these decisions could impact the broader industry and what's coming up next for Bitcoin ETF decisions.
- -
Timestamps:
(00:00) Introduction
(01:37)The Importance of Grayscale ETF Victory
(11:20) “Chainalysis Ad”
(12:24) ETF Consequences & What's Next?
(28:48) Uniswap Case Dismissal
(36:52) Impacts of Decisions
(39:39) Creating a New Asset Class
(41:27) Cravath Paper & Tornado Cash Indictment
- -
Follow Rebecca: https://twitter.com/RebeccaRettig1
Follow Jake: https://twitter.com/jchervinsky
Follow Jason: https://twitter.com/JasonYanowitz
Follow Santi: https://twitter.com/santiagoroel
Follow Empire: https://twitter.com/theempirepod
Subscribe on YouTube: https://tinyurl.com/4fdhhb2j
Subscribe on Apple: https://tinyurl.com/mv4frfv7
Subscribe on Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/wbaypprw
Get top market insights and the latest in crypto news. Subscribe to Blockworks Daily Newsletter: https://blockworks.co/newsletter/
- -
This episode is brought to you by Chainalysis.
Chainalysis is the blockchain data platform. We provide data, software, services, and research to government agencies, web3 companies, financial institutions, and insurance and cybersecurity companies. Our data powers investigation, compliance, and business intelligence software that has been used to solve some of the world’s most high-profile criminal cases.
For more information, visit www.Chainalysis.com/empire.
- -
Resources:
Grayscale ETF
https://twitter.com/jchervinsky/status/1696544309699363201
https://blockworks.co/news/judges-grayscale-sec-ruling
https://twitter.com/MTCoppel/status/1696856472762683814
Uniswap Case Dismissal
https://blockworks.co/news/uniswap-class-action-dismissed
https://twitter.com/haydenzadams/status/1696991910370411003
Cravath Paper & Tornado Cash
https://twitter.com/Cravath/status/1697693810363351358?s=20
https://twitter.com/RebeccaRettig1/status/1697716451358982364
Crypto Use-cases
thevaluedrop.io
The Blockchain Association
https://theblockchainassociation.org/
https://twitter.com/BlockchainAssn
- -
Disclaimer: Nothing said on Empire is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Santiago, Jason, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.
On Wednesday, the U.S. Government indicted Tornado Cash developers Roman Storm and Roman Semenov for three counts of conspiracy involving a staggeringly large number: $1 billion in criminal proceeds. The U.S. Department of Justice attached North Korean hackers to a large portion of this sum, alleging that Tornado’s privacy tech enabled nefarious deeds. Amanda Tuminelli, chief legal officer of the DeFi Education Fund, joins the show to assess whether the U.S. Government got it right or is merely misguided in its understanding of how blockchain technology works. Should Tornado Cash devs be held to account for the criminal use of their software?
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.
Show highlights:
why the U.S. Government says the cofounders of Tornado Cash facilitated money laundering
what the difference is between the concealment of potential proceeds of a crime versus the facilitation of that crime
why Amanda believes that if the government understood the technology they wouldn’t be making these allegations
whether the charges and the indictment will have implications for all software developers
whether these allegations could mark the “end of DeFi” in the U.S.
whether front-end applications in DeFi will need to mandate KYC checks for all users
how the charges appear to contradict earlier FinCEN guidance
how the DOJ will use the involvement of North Korean hackers to “make it look bad” for the jury
what the future of the case will look like and whether there will be a motion to dismiss the indictment
Thank you to our sponsors!
Crypto.com
Arbitrum Foundation
Thales DAO
Guest
Amanda Tuminelli, Chief Legal Officer at DeFi Education Fund
Links
Previous coverage of Unchained on Tornado Cash:
The Chopping Block: 'Code Is Law' Is 'Obviously Not How Anything Works Ever'
The Chopping Block: Why DeFi May Be Over-Complying With Tornado Cash Sanctions
Preston Van Loon on Ethereum’s Merge and His Lawsuit Against Treasury
Given the Sanctions on Tornado Cash, Is Ethereum Censorship Resistant?
The Chopping Block: Did OFAC Overstep by Sanctioning Tornado Cash?
Tornado Cash Sanctioned. Did the Government Overstep Its Bounds?
Unchained:
Tornado Cash Cofounder Arrested, Another Sanctioned by U.S. Government
OFAC Updates Tornado Cash Sanctions To Include DAO
Coin Center Sues the US Treasury Over Tornado Cash Sanctions
Coin Center: New Tornado Cash indictments seem to run counter to FinCEN guidance
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Rebecca Rettig serves as the Chief Legal and Policy Officer at Polygon Labs.
In this episode, Rettig offers a comprehensive analysis of the SEC's ongoing legal proceedings against Coinbase and Ripple, including instances where the Court seems to be challenging the SEC's authority.
Rettig explains, "I think what both the Ripple and the Coinbase motion for judgment on the pleadings is really trying to say is, 'We got to bring it back to the law. This may look like something, but it doesn't look like anything you've seen before.' So we can't import these other ideas where an investment contract means there's some implied contract."
Additionally, she touches on the Court's perspective regarding the SEC's prior actions towards Coinbase: "The judge that [the Coinbase case] is in front of expressed a lot of skepticism about the case because she said to the SEC, 'Didn't you guys let this one go through and allow them to IPO?'"
During this episode Chaparro and Rettig also discuss:
Regulatory frameworks for digital assets outside the U.S.
The Value Prop and how blockchain is being used for good
Why this has been a "bullish" bear market
Join Santi and guests Rebeca Rettig and Jake Chervinsky in today's special Policy Series episode as they discuss the landmark Ripple case and its monumental impact. Explore the implications for future legislation, token sales practices, decentralization & governance, and get updates on MiCA & EU regulations.
- -
Timestamps:
(00:00) Introduction
(01:24) Landmark Ripple Case
(14:00) Verdict Impact on Industry Financing
(19:08) What's Next for Ripple Case?
(24:35) Influence on Future Legislation
(28:36) Token Sales in Practice
(38:31) Decentralization & Governance
(48:57) Digital Asset Market Structure Proposal
(56:25) Updates on MiCA & EU
(01:01:18) Call Your Representatives
(01:09:02) Futures Curve
(01:15:07) Recession Risk
- -
Follow Rebecca: https://twitter.com/RebeccaRettig1
Follow Jake: https://twitter.com/jchervinsky
Follow Jason: https://twitter.com/JasonYanowitz
Follow Santi: https://twitter.com/santiagoroel
Follow Empire: https://twitter.com/theempirepod
Subscribe on YouTube: https://tinyurl.com/4fdhhb2j
Subscribe on Apple: https://tinyurl.com/mv4frfv7
Subscribe on Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/wbaypprw
Get top market insights and the latest in crypto news. Subscribe to Blockworks Daily Newsletter: https://blockworks.co/newsletter/
- -
This episode is brought to you by Chainalysis.
Chainalysis is the blockchain data platform. We provide data, software, services, and research to government agencies, web3 companies, financial institutions, and insurance and cybersecurity companies. Our data powers investigation, compliance, and business intelligence software that has been used to solve some of the world’s most high-profile criminal cases.
For more information, visit www.Chainalysis.com/empire.
- -
Resources
Crypto Usecases
thevaluedrop.io
The Blockchain Association
https://theblockchainassociation.org/
https://twitter.com/BlockchainAssn
- -
Disclaimer: Nothing said on Empire is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Santiago, Jason, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.
Today we are joined by Rebecca Rettig and Jake Chervinsky to discuss the SEC's attack on crypto and how the industry needs to respond. Rebecca and Jake explore the SEC lawsuits, the McHenry-Thompson Bill, their expected US regulation timeline, DC's sentiment and more! Regulation and policy are becoming must-know topics for crypto participants, and this is your go-to source for everything you need to know. This is the second episode in an ongoing regulatory and policy series with Jake and Rebecca!
- -
Timestamps:
(00:00) Introduction
(00:53) The SEC Lawsuits: What’s Next?
(10:53) “Chainalysis Ad”
(11:57) The SEC Lawsuits: What’s Next?
(16:02) We Need a Use Case to Show Regulators
(21:06) The McHenry-Thompson Bill
(38:23) Unprecedented Action by the SEC
(45:47) MiCA, Global Legislation and the US’s Timeline
(54:10) Non-Custodial Tax Reporting
(56:18) DC's Sentiment: FTX Still Lingers
- -
Follow Rebecca: https://twitter.com/RebeccaRettig1
Follow Jake: https://twitter.com/jchervinsky
Follow Jason: https://twitter.com/JasonYanowitz
Follow Santi: https://twitter.com/santiagoroel
Follow Empire: https://twitter.com/theempirepod
Subscribe on YouTube: https://tinyurl.com/4fdhhb2j
Subscribe on Apple: https://tinyurl.com/mv4frfv7
Subscribe on Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/wbaypprw
Get top market insights and the latest in crypto news. Subscribe to Blockworks Daily Newsletter: https://blockworks.co/newsletter/
- -
This episode is brought to you by Chainalysis. Chainalysis is the blockchain data platform. We provide data, software, services, and research to government agencies, web3 companies, financial institutions, and insurance and cybersecurity companies. Our data powers investigation, compliance, and business intelligence software that has been used to solve some of the world’s most high-profile criminal cases. For more information, visit www.Chainalysis.com/empire.
- -
Resources:
The Blockchain Association
https://theblockchainassociation.org/
https://twitter.com/BlockchainAssn
Polygon
https://polygon.technology/
- -
Disclaimer: Nothing said on Empire is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Santiago, Jason, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.
Joining us today are the best in the biz Chervinsky & Amanda Tuminelli who are here to answer all our questions about the SEC and it's assault on the crypto industry as a whole. ------ 📣 ASYMETRIX | STAKE stETH NOW https://bankless.cc/asymetrix-pod
------ 🚀 Airdrop Alpha is waiting for you on Bankless.com https://bankless.cc/Alpha
------ BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:
🐙KRAKEN | MOST-TRUSTED CRYPTO EXCHANGE https://k.xyz/bankless-pod-q2
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⚖️ ARBITRUM | SCALING ETHEREUM https://bankless.cc/Arbitrum
👾STADER LABS | ETHX LIQUID STAKING https://bankless.cc/Stader
🗣️TOKU | CRYPTO EMPLOYMENT SOLUTION https://bankless.cc/Toku
🎮IMMUTABLE | GAMING ECOSYSTEM https://bankless.cc/Immutable
🛞MANTLE | MODULAR LAYER 2 NETWORK https://bankless.cc/Mantle
------ CHAPTERS 0:00 Intro 6:05 Who are Jake and Amanda? 8:08 Breaking Down This Historical Moment 11:19 The SEC Never Wanted Crypto To Win 14:56 Why Is Gary So Confident? 18:43 David's Conspiracy Theory 23:52 What if Gary Actually Wins? 31:07 Clarity From The Court Date? 35:01 Does Gary Just Want the Fame? 36:49 Why The SEC Rejects Public Process 38:34 Is This Un-Constitutional? 44:06 Jake's Optimistic Take 48:14 The Digital Asset Bill 52:44 How YOU Can Take Action ----- Not financial or tax advice. This channel is strictly educational and is not investment advice or a solicitation to buy or sell any assets or to make any financial decisions. This video is not tax advice. Talk to your accountant. Do your own research.
Disclosure. From time-to-time I may add links in this newsletter to products I use. I may receive commission if you make a purchase through one of these links. Additionally, the Bankless writers hold crypto assets. See our investment disclosures here: https://www.bankless.com/disclosures
Today we are joined by Rebecca Rettig and Jake Chervinsky to discuss the state of crypto regulation. Rebecca and Jake explain how the US is falling behind, the EU's MiCA regulation, the SEC's attack on Coinbase, Gary's false sense of control and the hottest crypto bills in DC. Regulation and policy are becoming must-know topics for crypto participants, and this is your go-to source for everything you need to know. This is the first episode in an ongoing regulatory and policy series with Jake and Rebecca!
- -
Timestamps:
(00:00) Introduction
(00:40) The State of Crypto Regulation
(02:36) Europe's MiCA Legislation
(11:10) “Chainalysis Ad”
(12:14) Coinbase’s Offshore Expansion
(14:11) The UK’s Approach and What’s Next for the EU
(19:07) Gary Gensler’s April Testimony
(22:45) Coinbase’s Fight with the SEC
(30:08) Warren Marshall Bill
(35:21) The US Policy Outlook
- -
Follow Rebecca: https://twitter.com/RebeccaRettig1
Follow Jake: https://twitter.com/jchervinsky
Follow Jason: https://twitter.com/JasonYanowitz
Follow Santi: https://twitter.com/santiagoroel
Follow Empire: https://twitter.com/theempirepod
Subscribe on YouTube: https://tinyurl.com/4fdhhb2j
Subscribe on Apple: https://tinyurl.com/mv4frfv7
Subscribe on Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/wbaypprw
Get top market insights and the latest in crypto news. Subscribe to Blockworks Daily Newsletter: https://blockworks.co/newsletter/
- -
This episode is brought to you by Chainalysis.
Chainalysis is the blockchain data platform. We provide data, software, services, and research to government agencies, web3 companies, financial institutions, and insurance and cybersecurity companies. Our data powers investigation, compliance, and business intelligence software that has been used to solve some of the world’s most high-profile criminal cases. For more information, visit www.Chainalysis.com/empire.
- -
Resources:
Coinbase's response to the SEC’s Wells notice
https://www.coinbase.com/blog/coinbase-responds-to-the-secs-wells-notice
The Blockchain Association
https://theblockchainassociation.org/
https://twitter.com/BlockchainAssn
Polygon
https://polygon.technology/
- -
Disclaimer: Nothing said on Empire is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Santiago, Jason, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.
A settlement with Kraken, a proposed custody rule, and lawsuits against Paxos and Terraform Labs. “This week has been a very long year,” said Polygon Labs Chief Policy Officer Rebecca Rettig. She joins Coinbase Chief Legal Officer Paul Grewal to interpret what’s going on with the SEC. Is it just one big push to cripple the crypto industry? “The fact that we’re all … trying to read tea leaves speaks to a failure in the system that relies upon one-off enforcement actions rather than a public rulemaking process,” said Grewal.
Show highlights:
how the implosion of FTX sped up regulatory actions
whether the SEC will go after other staking services
why the statement that crypto firms should just register with the SEC is “disingenuous”
what seems to be behind the decision to target the BUSD stablecoin
whether SEC enforcement actions will be detrimental to innovation in the U.S.
what features would make stablecoins securities
why the SEC is alleging that the UST stablecoin is a security
why “expansion of jurisdiction” is at the heart of the SEC’s proposed crypto custody rules
why Paul thinks that forcing crypto innovation offshore could become a national security issue for the U.S.
Thank you to our sponsors!
Crypto.com
FTSE
Halborn
NYU
Guests:
Paul Grewal, Chief Legal Officer at Coinbase:
Twitter
Rebecca Rettig, Chief Policy Officer at Polygon Labs:
Twitter
Links
WIRED: Confusion Spirals in Crypto as the US Cracks Down
Unchained:
Circle Told NYDFS That Paxos-Issued BUSD Wasn’t Fully Backed
SEC Wants Tougher Rules for Crypto Custody
SEC Sues Do Kwon and Terraform Labs
WSJ:
Crypto Firm Paxos Faces SEC Lawsuit Over Binance USD Token
Regulator Orders Crypto Firm Paxos to Stop Issuing Binance Stablecoin
Bloomberg: US Crackdown Seeks to Push Crypto Back to the Fringes of Finance
SEC:
Pocketful of Quarters, Inc.
Statement on Safeguarding Advisory Client Assets Proposal
CoinDesk: SEC Proposal Could Bar Investment Advisers From Keeping Assets at Crypto Firms
Jesse Powell’s tweet
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
In today's episode, we're talking about the state of crypto regulation across the pond. Is it as bad over there as it is here in the United States?
There is a landmark crypto bill over in the EU called MiCA (Markets in Crypto-Assets) and its worth paying attention to!
We brought on some EU regulation experts, Rebecca Rettig, Chief Policy Officer @ Polygon Labs, Seth Hertlein, VP, Global Head of Policy @ Ledger, and Patrick Hansen Director of EU Strategy and Policy @ Circle.
------ MetaMask Learn https://bankless.cc/metamaskshow
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------ BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:
KRAKEN | MOST-TRUSTED CRYPTO EXCHANGE https://bankless.cc/kraken
UNISWAP | ON-CHAIN MARKETPLACE https://bankless.cc/uniswap
️ ARBITRUM | SCALING ETHEREUM https://bankless.cc/Arbitrum
EARNIFI | CLAIM YOUR UNCLAIMED AIRDROPS https://bankless.cc/earnifi
------ Timestamps:
0:00 Intro 4:45 Pond Temperature 9:30 U.S. vs. the EU Regulation 13:30 Is MiCA Passed? 15:50 Should the U.S. Be Jealous? 18:30 MiCA Grading 20:55 DCCA Grading 22:22 MiCA Stablecoins 29:35 EU Restrictions 37:36 MiCA Self-Custody 44:22 Fear Ideology 46:40 U.S. vs. EU Regulation & Innovation 51:40 Closing Thoughts 58:50 Disclaimers
------ Resources:
Seth Hertlein https://twitter.com/SethHertlein
Patrick Hansen https://twitter.com/paddi_hansen
Rebecca Rettig https://twitter.com/RebeccaRettig1
----- Not financial or tax advice. This channel is strictly educational and is not investment advice or a solicitation to buy or sell any assets or to make any financial decisions. This video is not tax advice. Talk to your accountant. Do your own research.
Disclosure. From time-to-time I may add links in this newsletter to products I use. I may receive commission if you make a purchase through one of these links. Additionally, the Bankless writers hold crypto assets. See our investment disclosures here: https://www.bankless.com/disclosures
In today’s episode of Empire, we start with a deep regulatory discussion with Kristin Smith and Rebecca Rettig to explore Gary's attack on crypto. We cover the SEC's attack against Kraken and BUSD, tokens as securities, market implications, what to expect next and more!
Santi and Jason co-pilot the last 25 minutes to discuss Blur's airdrop, the battle for NFT market share, the L2 wars and Flashbots' new MEV-Share product. This episode covers everything you need to know from this wild week!
- -
Timestamps:
(00:00) Introduction
(02:55) An attack on Stablecoins?
(06:34) Kraken and staking services
(10:22) Why is Gary gunning for crypto?
(14:09) The Implications and path forward
(27:37) What if tokens were deemed securities?
(32:30) Blockworks Research
(34:05) How should crypto companies respond?
(40:22) Regulation segment recap
(51:25) Blur's airdrop, OpenSea losing market share
(59:10) L2 Wars, Flashbots MEV-Share, Sushi Studios
- -
Follow Santi: https://twitter.com/santiagoroel
Follow Jason: https://twitter.com/JasonYanowitz
Follow Kristin: https://twitter.com/KMSmithDC
Follow Rebecca: https://twitter.com/RebeccaRettig1
Follow Empire: https://twitter.com/theempirepod
Subscribe on YouTube: https://tinyurl.com/4fdhhb2j
Subscribe on Apple: https://tinyurl.com/mv4frfv7
Subscribe on Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/wbaypprw
Get top market insights and the latest in crypto news. Subscribe to Blockworks Daily Newsletter: https://blockworks.co/newsletter/
- -
Resources
Blockchain Association
https://twitter.com/BlockchainAssn
Polygon
https://twitter.com/0xPolygon
Empire podcast with Rebecca Rettig and Jake Chervinsky
https://spoti.fi/3YTMfoh
Flasbots MEV-Share article
http://bit.ly/3S7g9TO
Categorizing different zk implementations (a Twitter thread)
https://twitter.com/pseudotheos/status/1622698514475061252?s=20
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Disclaimer: Nothing said on Empire is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Santiago, Jason, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.
Sheila Warren, CEO of the Crypto Council for Innovation, and Miller Whitehouse-Levine, Policy Director of the DeFi Education Fund, offer insider takes on how lawmakers and regulators are viewing crypto after FTX’s catastrophic failure. Both expect heightened activity in the U.S. from what they’re calling the “Crypto Congress.” Will this be the year for stablecoin regulation? Is DeFi still in the crosshairs? What about Ripple’s fight with the SEC? The two crypto policy experts look to the U.S. and beyond for what regulatory battles lie ahead in 2023.
Show highlights:
why the current environment in Washington makes it difficult to pass new legislation
whether the opinion of members of Congress on crypto has changed in the aftermath of FTX’s alleged fraud
how Elizabeth Warren and others are using the FTX collapse to prove their anti-crypto stance
whether it’s possible to prevent a fallout like FTX from ever happening again
why Miller believes that this year Congress will be “absolutely obsessed” with crypto
what stablecoin legislation would look like, and why stablecoins are more likely to be regulated sooner
why Sheila thinks Ripple could win its case against the SEC
why they believe the SEC’s failure to approve a spot Bitcoin ETF is a logical inconsistency
why they think it’s not possible to apply TradFi rules to DeFi technology
how more policymaker education needs to be done
how OFAC sanctioning Tornado Cash sparked many conversations among researchers and policymakers
the role of the government in preserving national security
how MiCA took an appropriately slow approach to imposing DeFi regulations
the impact of China and India adopting digital currencies
why Miller thinks China’s digital yuan is “the apotheosis of a totalitarian technology”
Thank you to our sponsors!
Crypto.com
FTSE
Links
Previous coverage of Unchained on crypto legislation:
Why Bitcoin Now: Michael Casey and Niall Ferguson on How Bitcoin Fits in the History of Money
Kristin Smith on Why Crypto Legislation Could Be Passed by Year's End
Why Senator Pat Toomey Thinks SEC Chair Gary Gensler Is Wrong About Crypto
Guests:
Sheila:
Twitter
Miller:
LinkedIn
FTX
CoinDesk:
After FTX: How Congress Is Gearing Up to Regulate Crypto
Congress' FTX Problem: 1 in 3 Members Got Cash From Crypto Exchange's Bosses
After FTX: How Congress Is Gearing Up to Regulate Crypto
CNBC: House Republicans move to regulate crypto industry with a new subcommittee
MiCA
CoinDesk:
Analyzing What's Next for Europe's Markets in Crypto Assets Law
EU’s MiCA Crypto Law Would Have Stopped FTX's Malpractice, Officials Say
Others
Project Hamilton - Building a Hypothetical Central Bank Digital Currency
U.S. Treasury Sanctions Notorious Virtual Currency Mixer Tornado Cash
Tornado Cash is no “golem.” It’s a tool for privacy and free speech. - Coin Center
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In this episode of Empire, Jason and Santi are joined by Rebecca Rettig and Jake Chervinsky to discuss the state of crypto regulation. We explore what Tornado Cash sanctions mean for crypto, how to define decentralization, if tokens will be considered securities, Ethereum censorship, what to expect from future regulation and more!
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(00:00) Introduction
(01:18) Tornado Cash Sanctions
(16:09) Defining Decentralization
(26:17) What Has Been Most Damaging to Crypto?
(31:03) Do Regulators Understand the Nuances of Crypto?
(37:35) What Regulations Should Be Prioritized Today?
(39:27) A Focus on User Protection
(46:17) Getting Congress on Our Side
(59:45) The SEC's Attack on Crypto (Coinbase)
(1:01:02) Uniswap Fee Switch Implications
(1:08:17) ETH Validators & OFAC Compliance
(1:19:27) Permissionless vs Permissioned DeFi
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Disclaimer: Nothing said on Empire is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Santiago, Jason, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.
