How Lighter Powers Robinhood Perps With USDG as the Quote Asset
Robinhood Chain perps now run on Lighter. Vlad Novakovski maps the revenue split, the USDG collateral risk, and the race for a US perps license.
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Robinhood Chain went live last week, and the perpetual futures powering it are from Lighter, the onchain exchange Robinhood backed before Lighter launched its token.
Vlad Novakovski, founder and CEO of Lighter, joins Laura Shin to unpack a partnership he says has been building since he and the Robinhood founder were high school classmates. He details a 50/50 revenue split, why USDG as collateral creates friction for market makers, and how a pending CFTC license would cover Robinhood's own front-end too.
Novakovski also addresses the crowded field forming around US perps, from Kalshi and Coinbase to Kraken and dYdX, and makes the case that onchain volume keeps gaining share even as crypto native tokens lag real world asset perps. His new seat on the CFTC Innovation Advisory Committee puts him in the room as regulators decide what a DEX has to look like to operate onshore.
Host:
Laura Shin, Host / Unchained
Guests:
Vlad Novakovski - Founder and CEO of Lighter
Timestamps
🤝 01:28 Why Vlad calls the Robinhood Chain deal "12 years in the making" and how the revenue is split
🤓 03:40 How Robinhood perps differs from Lighter's own app
💸 05:03 What if means if USDG is the quote asset on Robinhood's perps and USDC is the quote asset on Lighter
💬 11:04 Novakovski on Lighter's Telegram Wallet deal vs Hyperliquid's builder codes
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💼 13:44 Fidelity: Explore crypto and DeFi careers at https://crypto.fidelitycareers.com
📉 14:31 Why RWA perps are hitting highs while crypto native perp volume cools
⚠️ 18:00 How Lighter prices liquidation risk when tokenized stocks are collateral
🏛️ 21:14 Novakovski on the regulatory pathway DEXs need to move onshore
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The Chopping Block: Tokens vs Equity, Lighter's Robinhood Perps Deal, and Trump's $2.4B Crypto Windfall
Vladimir Novakovski of Lighter joins the Chopping Block crew to untangle one of crypto's oldest debates: what happens when tokens and equity coexist. The gang digs into the Venice/VVV controversy, breaks down Lighter's new Perps integration with Robinhood Chain and the fragmentation questions it raises, dissects the wild BonkDAO governance exploit, and reacts to the eye-popping $2.4 billion in crypto income disclosed in Trump's financial filings.
Welcome to The Chopping Block – where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest in crypto, joined this week by special guest Vladimir Novakovski of Lighter.
The crew dives deep into the resurfaced tokens-versus-equity debate sparked by Dragonfly's investment in Venice and its VVV token, with Haseeb making the case that Venice is fundamentally different from Uniswap Labs style structures. Vlad explains how Lighter has approached the same dilemma through programmatic buybacks and a single C corp structure, and the group debates fiduciary duties, Delaware law, and what a merged DeFi/TradFi future for equity and tokens might look like. From there, they unpack Lighter's big Robinhood Chain announcement, including Lighter's new role as the native Perps engine inside Robinhood Wallet, and whether running a separate instance fragments liquidity. The episode wraps with a breakdown of the BonkDAO governance exploit that let an attacker vote themselves $20 million in tokens, and a reaction to Trump's staggering $2.4 billion in pre-tax crypto income revealed in his latest financial disclosure.
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pods, Fountain, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.
Show highlights
🔹 Haseeb breaks down why Venice's VVV token is not equity and not a Uniswap style governance token in disguise
🔹 Vlad explains how Lighter's programmatic buybacks and single C corp structure align token holders and equity holders
🔹 The gang debates Delaware fiduciary law, shareholder primacy, and what happens when buyback capital runs dry
🔹 Vlad lays out the vision of tokenized equity merging with crypto tokens into a single on-chain asset
🔹 Lighter's Robinhood Chain deal goes live with Lighter powering native Perps trading inside Robinhood Wallet
🔹 Vlad addresses concerns about liquidity fragmentation across separate Lighter instances
🔹 BonkDAO gets exploited as an attacker buys governance tokens and votes themselves $20 million
🔹 Robert compares the Bonk exploit to the infamous Beanstalk and Compound Humpty governance attacks
🔹 Trump's financial disclosure reveals $2.4 billion in pre-tax crypto income, sparking a debate on crypto's political future
Hosts
⭐️Haseeb Qureshi, Managing Partner at Dragonfly
⭐️Tom Schmidt, General Partner at Dragonfly
⭐️Robert Leshner, Founder & CEO of Superstate
Guest
⭐️Vladimir Novakovski, Founder of Lighter
Timestamps
00:00 Intro
03:40 Tokens vs equity: the Venice VVV debate begins
06:12 Fiduciary duty, Delaware law, and Lighter's C corp structure
08:00 What happens when buyback capital runs out
12:42 Why Venice launched a token in the first place
19:18 Comparing VVV to BNB and overloaded crypto assets
25:28 Lighter's Robinhood Chain deal and native Perps launch
37:02 BonkDAO governance exploit and the $20M vote
44:02 Lessons from Beanstalk and Compound's Humpty saga
47:09 Trump's $2.4B crypto income disclosure reactions
Disclosures
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Inside Lighter’s Plan to Overtake Hyperliquid | Vladimir Novakovski
This week, Lighter Founder & CEO Vladimir Novakovski discusses Lighter’s competitive edge over Hyperliquid, why he chose to be an L2 on Ethereum, and the role of their ZK innovations. We also touch on equity perps, Lighter’s partnership with Robinhood, and why Vlad chose to work in crypto. Enjoy!
Follow Vlad: https://x.com/vnovakovski
Follow Jason: https://x.com/JasonYanowitz
Follow Empire: https://twitter.com/theempirepod
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Timestamps
(00:00) Intro
(03:05) Why Vlad Chose Crypto & a Perp DEX
(11:37) Competing as a Perp DEX
(18:00) Why Be an L2 on Ethereum?
(20:37) Unpacking Lighter’s Competitive Edge
(25:46) Lighter’s ZK Innovations
(32:33) Partnership with Robinhood
(38:06) Equity Perps and Advantage Over Hyperliquid
(44:11) Lighter Token & Valuation
(51:56) What Are People Missing?
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Disclaimer: Nothing said on Empire is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Santiago, Jason, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.
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The Chopping Block: Hyperliquid vs. Tarun, ADL Transparency & The Coming Perps Arms Race - Ep. 981
Welcome to The Chopping Block — where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest in crypto. This episode features special guest Vladimir Novakovski, Founder of Lighter, joining the crew to unpack the fallout from October 10’s historic perpetuals liquidation event and the ADL research that sparked a public clash with Hyperliquid. The panel digs into how auto-deleveraging really works, why these failures were long hidden inside centralized exchanges, and what decentralized perps must fix to truly outperform TradFi.
The conversation then turns to the intensifying perp wars. With Lighter’s zero-fee trading model, premium tiers for pros, and a looming token launch, the hosts debate whether crypto is headed for a Robinhood-style fee reset, why TVL may matter more than volume, and how RWAs, FX perps, and cross-margining are reshaping market structure. Finally, they tackle the growing divide between tokens and equity as devcos get acquired and tokenholders are left behind.
Perps are evolving, incentives are breaking — let’s get into it.
Show Highlights
🔹 ADL research ignites a firestorm — Tarun’s paper on auto-deleveraging sparks a public clash with Hyperliquid and Paradigm, exposing how opaque ADL systems really are.
🔹 October 10 liquidation shock — Repeated ADLs during crypto’s largest liquidation day reveal structural fragility long hidden inside both CEXs and DEXs.
🔹 Fairness vs predictability in perps — Why traders care less about perfect algorithms and more about knowing when and how ADLs will hit.
🔹 Lighter’s design tradeoffs — Vladimir Novakovski explains Lighter’s less-aggressive ADL approach, insurance fund buffers, and trader-friendly risk parameters.
🔹 Zero-fee perps debate — Lighter’s free retail tier + paid pro tier raises the question: is crypto headed for a Robinhood-style fee reset?
🔹 TVL beats volume — The panel argues TVL is the most honest signal of trust in perp exchanges, especially during market stress.
🔹 RWAs and FX perps surprise — Euro and index perps outperform expectations, challenging assumptions about which real-world assets actually trade onchain.
🔹 Tokens vs equity explode — Devco acquihires (Axelar, Tensor) leave tokenholders behind, reigniting debates over incentive alignment and crypto M&A.
Hosts:
⭐️Haseeb Qureshi, Managing Partner at Dragonfly ⭐️Tarun Chitra, Managing Partner at Robot Ventures
Guest
⭐️Vladimir Novakovski, Founder & CEO. Lighter.
Links:
Tarun Chitra’s Autodeleveraging: $653 million lost to a greedy heuristic?
🔗 https://x.com/kenchangh/status/1994854381267947640
Disclosures
Timestamps
00:00 Intro
01:38 Tarun’s ADL Paper Sparks Backlash
05:24 Research vs Bag Defense
06:27 How ADLs Actually Work
12:27 Fairness vs Predictability
24:14 Tarun’s Inspiration
28:17 Zero-Fee Perps Explained
34:12 Perp Wars Heat Up
38:15 RWAs Trade Onchain
41:49 Token Launch Reality
47:19 Tokens vs Equity Clash
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Is Lighter Ethereum's L2 Perp DEX? | Founder Vlad Novakovski
A $19B liquidation wave hit crypto 10 days after Lighter’s public mainnet—so we asked founder/CEO Vladimir Novakovski why they built a ZK L2 Perp DEX on Ethereum, how the escape hatch actually protects users, and what really happened under extreme stress. We dig into ADL vs. LLP, trader-first design, and why verifiability (not vibes) should govern order matching and liquidations. Vlad shares throughput targets, why Lighter chose custom ZK circuits over a generalized ZKVM, and what’s next: Spot, universal cross-margin, and a ZKVM sidecar for a broader platform play. We close with lessons from the cascade, realistic tradeoffs of being an L2, and how L2Beat “stage upgrades” fit into the roadmap.
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TIMESTAMPS
0:00 Intro
3:04 Guest Intro & ZK L2 “Why”
4:58 L2 Security & Verifiability
11:35 Verifiable Matching & Liquidations
14:02 Mainnet Launch & Liquidation Stress Test
18:16 Outage: Timeline & Make-Good
18:58 Scorecard: Lighter vs Hyperliquid vs Binance
22:20 ADL 101: Why Automated Deleveraging Exists
32:32 “Customer-First” Design Stance
38:32 Takeaways: Transparency, Proofs, Details
41:48 Causes Considered & Vlad’s Market Lens
49:31 Why a Perp DEX: Product & Fit
57:42 L1 vs L2: Tradeoffs, Sovereignty, Incentives
1:06:45 Roadmap: Spot, ZKVM Sidecar, Cross-Margin, New Markets
1:11:21 Points, Token Timing & Transparency
1:15:31 Closing Thoughts
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RESOURCES
Vladimir Novakovski
https://x.com/vnovakovski
Lighter
https://x.com/lighter_xyz
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Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:
https://www.bankless.com/disclosures