Pete Kazanjy

In episode 649, Rob Walling chats with Pete Kazanjy about his book Founding Sales, which is designed to help SaaS founders learn how to sell as well as how to hire and scale sales. We cover a lot, including objection handling, how to ask for the sale, and mindset shifts you need to make when learning how to sell. Episode Sponsor: Find your perfect developer or a team at Lemon.io/startups The competition for incredible engineers and developers has never been more fierce. Lemon.io helps you cut through the noise and find great talent through its network of engineers in Europe and Latin America. They take care of the vetting, interviewing, and testing of candidates to make sure that you are working with someone who can hit the ground running. When it comes to hiring, the time it takes to write your job description, list the position, review resumes, schedule interviews, and make an offer can take weeks, if not months. With Lemon.io, you can cut down on a lot of that time by tapping into their wide network of developers who can get started in as early as a week. And for subscribers of Startups For the Rest of Us, you can get 15% off your first 4 week contract with a developer by visiting lemon.io/startups Topics we cover:  3:53 - Overview of Founding Sales 7:54 - Growing TalentBin to $6M ARR 10:28 - What Pete is working on today with Atrium 12:28 - Mindset changes when doing sales for the first time 19:26 - Speed vs. production value for sales materials 22:46 - Handling objections 26:50 - Asking for the sale 31:03 - Relentless execution 32:15 - What sets good sales reps apart from those that struggle? Links from the Show: Pete Kazanjy (@Kazanjy) I Twitter Atrium Founding Sales Modern Sales Pros Predictable Revenue: Turn Your Business Into A Sales Machine With The $100 Million Best Practices of Salesforce.com The Lean Startup  The Startup Owner’s Manual  ElevenLabs Prime Voice AI  MicroConf US  SaaS Playbook If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you. Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Stitcher

Pete Kazanjy

Co-founder

Atrium

Jason and Pete chat about SaaStr Fund, the state of VC funding in Q1 2023, and whether LPs play a role in the former "grow at all costs" mindset that prevailed in 2021 and early 2022. Video: https://youtu.be/cvYe2jf2gOE This conversation is an excerpt from a Modern Sales Pros fireside chat. You can find that video on their channel: https://youtu.be/fVckRPSUG-U Want to join the SaaStr community? We're the 🌎largest community for B2B software. Subscribe for weekly updates: https://www.saastr.com/subscribeform Twitter: https://twitter.com/saastr LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/2724976 Quora Group: https://www.quora.com/q/cloud Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SaaStr/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/saastr/ Our North American Event: https://bit.ly/2OXeAYh Our European Event: https://bit.ly/2OZTad8

Pete Kazanjy

Co-founder

Atrium

Pete Kazanjy is the author of Founding Sales: The Early Stage Go-to-Market Handbook and the founder of Modern Sales Pros, an invite-only peer learning community focused on sales operations and sales leadership. He’s also the co-founder of Atrium, a B2B SaaS company that provides data-driven sales solutions. Pete got his start in product at VMware and then dove deep into the art and science of sales. In today’s episode, we talk about the importance of founder-led sales and how to methodically scale a sales department. He explains the difference between old-school sales and modern sales, which focuses on human connection and solving problems for customers. He also shares actionable tips to improve your sales technique and explains how to use data to monitor your success at different milestones in the sales process. — Find the full transcript here: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/founder-led-sales-pete-kazanjy-founding — Thank you to our wonderful sponsors for supporting this podcast: • Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security: https://vanta.com/lenny • Flatfile—A CSV importer that says yes instead of error: mismatch: https://www.flatfile.com/lenny • Merge—A single API to add hundreds of integrations into your app: http://merge.dev/lenny — Where to find Pete: • Twitter: https://twitter.com/Kazanjy • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kazanjy/ • Website: https://kazanjy.svbtle.com/ — Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com • Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ — Referenced: • Founding Sales: The Early Stage Go-to-Market Handbook: https://www.amazon.com/Founding-Sales-Go-Market-Handbook-ebook/dp/B08PMK17Z1 • Brianne Kimmel’s SaaS school: http://briannekimmel.com/saas-school/ • Modern Sales Pros: https://modernsaleshq.com/ • The Lean Startup: How Today’s Entrepreneurs Use Continuous Innovation to Create Radically Successful Businesses: https://www.amazon.com/Lean-Startup-Entrepreneurs-Continuous-Innovation/dp/0307887898 • The Four Steps to the Epiphany: Successful Strategies for Products That Win: https://www.amazon.com/Four-Steps-Epiphany-Successful-Strategies/dp/1119690358/ • Pete’s presentation on founder-led sales: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAXIVAZJyPA • Pete’s guest post on Lenny’s newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/sales-bottom-up • The Cadence: How to Operate a SaaS Startup: https://medium.com/craft-ventures/the-cadence-how-to-operate-a-saas-startup-436aa8099e8 • Maker vs. Manager Schedule: http://www.paulgraham.com/makersschedule.html • Amplitude: https://amplitude.com/ • Atrium: https://www.atriumhq.com/ • Greenhouse: https://www.greenhouse.io/ • Pete’s ICP Template: https://www.foundingsales.com/2-product-marketing#building-narrative • Marissa Fuhrer Bell on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marissafuhrer/ • Data-driven sales master class: https://salesnerds.atriumhq.com/msp-nailing-science-of-sales-figma-webinar-video • The Goal: A Process of Ongoing Improvement: https://www.amazon.com/Goal-Process-Ongoing-Improvement/dp/0884271951 • The Score Takes Care of Itself: My Philosophy of Leadership: https://www.amazon.com/Score-Takes-Care-Itself-Philosophy/dp/1591843472 • All-In podcast: https://www.allinpodcast.co/ • Encanto on Disney+: https://www.disneyplus.com/movies/encanto/33q7DY1rtHQH — In this episode, we cover: (00:00) How Pete met Lenny  (05:05) Pete’s background (07:20) Modern sales vs. old-school sales (09:17) What is founder-led sales, and why is it so important? (14:58) When to hire your first salesperson  (18:20) Why you should keep your in-person events to around 10 people (19:34) What a sales motion is and why it needs to be updated regularly  (20:55) What are the leading indicators of success? (23:54) Why founders don’t need to be rock stars at sales (28:28) Sales mindset changes—the number-one tip to improve your sales (33:30) How modern sales should focus on helping customers solve problems (36:00) A few tips to help you get better at sales (36:40) ICP and personas (39:14) Why you should hire junior sales staff in the early stages (45:40) Signs your new hires aren’t a good fit (47:38) The importance of using metrics for success (49:33) Month-by-month expectations for sales hires (51:19) Why work from home is bad for junior salespeople (54:19) Why you shouldn’t be afraid of sales (55:19) Lightning round — Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Pete Kazanjy

Co-founder

Atrium

Most SaaS founders skip straight to demos and email templates without building the foundational narrative their entire SaaS sales process depends on. Pete Kazanjy, author of Founding Sales, explains why that is backwards and how five sequential steps create the sales narrative everything else cascades from. Pete's SaaS sales process framework has five components: identify the problem through customer interviews, determine who is measured on solving it, quantify hard and soft ROI costs, map current solutions and shortcomings, then present how your product is better. This SaaS sales strategy foundation drives every slide deck, email template, and demo script. In this episode, Pete walks through each step of the sales narrative framework, explains why your real competitors are often spreadsheets rather than other tools, and reveals how startup selling at the persona level transforms messaging for different buyer roles. 🔑 Key Lessons 🎯 Build your SaaS sales process on interviews, not assumptions: Pete ran dozens of structured interviews before crafting any narrative. Patterns only emerge after many conversations. 🤝 Target the person measured on the outcome: The right persona isn't always the end user. It's whoever's success metric aligns with your product's impact in the SaaS sales process. 💰 Quantify hard and soft ROI: Give buyers concrete numbers for cost savings and time saved so they can build an internal business case for your SaaS sales strategy. 🛠️ Map current solutions before positioning: Your real competition in the SaaS sales process is often Salesforce reports and spreadsheets, not other startup selling tools. 📉 Never skip to demos without the narrative: Founders who jump to feature tours fail to create urgency. The narrative bridges "what it does" and "why you need it now." Chapters Introduction What Atrium does - data-driven sales management About the book Founding Sales Why most founders skip the SaaS sales process foundation Step 1 - Identify the problem through interviews Using customer development to detect patterns How themes emerge from interviews Step 2 - Identify the target persona Building narratives at the persona level Decision-makers vs problem-holders Pricing to match the right buyer level Step 3 - Quantify the cost of the problem Step 4 - Map current solutions Why current solutions are not direct competitors Step 5 - How your solution works and why it is better How the SaaS sales process narrative cascades into all assets Wrap up Resources Full show notes: https://saasclub.io/279 Join 5,000+ SaaS founders: https://saasclub.io/email

Pete Kazanjy

Co-founder

Atrium

Pete Kazanjy had zero sales experience when he became his startup's first sales rep. As a product marketer, he had to learn selling SaaS without sales experience from scratch. He built TalentBin to acquisition by Monster, then discovered that 60% of selling activity leadership believed was happening simply was not. Pete went from selling SaaS without sales experience to leading startup sales for 600+ reps at Monster Worldwide. His discovery that 40% of expected sales activity was missing inspired Atrium, a tool that monitors KPIs automatically so managers can coach instead of staring at dashboards. He also wrote Founding Sales, the missing manual for first-time sales leaders. In this episode, Pete reveals why founders are better at founder selling than they think, when to hand off sales to a hired leader, and why 100 structured customer development interviews validated the data-driven sales management gap. 🔑 Key Lessons 🤝 Founders should sell before hiring reps: Selling SaaS without sales experience works because founders know the problem space deeply. The tight feedback loop between selling and product iteration is a superpower. 🧠 Measure actual activity, not what leadership assumes: At Monster, Pete discovered 40% of expected startup sales activity was missing. CRM data was empty and leadership was defensive. 🛠️ Instrument your team like a factory: At TalentBin, Pete tracked every KPI for 8 AEs. Nothing surprised the team because every metric was visible and actionable. 📉 Dashboards fail because nobody looks at them: 100 customer interviews revealed that teams build reports then ignore them. Automated monitoring solves selling SaaS without sales experience. 🎯 Package your sales process before hiring a leader: Document stages, decision trees, and email templates. If the handoff fails, the process probably lives only in the founder's head. Chapters Introduction Favorite quote - The Score Takes Care of Itself What Atrium does - data-driven sales management Pete's path from product marketer to sales leader Why Pete took on selling SaaS without sales experience How the idea for Atrium emerged from Monster Discovering 60% actual vs expected selling activity Running 100 customer development interviews Why dashboards fail for sales management Building Atrium's automated KPI monitoring Why founders should handle startup sales themselves When and how to hand off sales to a hired leader Packaging the sales process for handoff Writing Founding Sales - the missing manual Lightning round Resources Full show notes: https://saasclub.io/278 Join 5,000+ SaaS founders: https://saasclub.io/email

Pete Kazanjy

Co-founder

Atrium

Pete Kazanjy is the Co-Founder @ Atrium, the startup providing proactive, always-on insights for sales operations, managers, and leaders. Stop asking questions. Start getting answers. Alongside Atrium, Pete is also the Founder of Modern Sales Pros, a community of 15,000 focused on sales operations and sales management. Pete is also the author of Founding Sales, the canonical writing on early-stage startup sales. Prior to founding Atrium, Pete founded TalentBin, culminating in their exit to Monster Worldwide in February 2014. Finally, before TalentBin, Pete founded Honestly.com building the world's first professional reputation clearinghouse and raising funding from CRV and First Round in the process. In Today's Episode We Discuss: How Pete made his way into the world of SaaS and how he came to be one of the leading figures on sales operations and management that he is today? Why do founders have to sell the product themselves at the start? When is the right time to hire their first sales reps? What profiles should founders look for in these first reps? What are the most common mistakes founders make when hiring their first reps? How should they structure their comp plans? How do the best onboard their sales reps? What can be done to minimise ramp time of new reps? How is the documentation used most effectively? How can sales calls be used for new rep onboarding? How does Pete think about optimising payback period on a per rep basis? What are the leading indicators that a sales rep is successful? What are the core metrics founders should measure to determine the effectiveness of their reps and sales teams? How does this differ between SMB and enterprise? What are the challenges with enterprise given the long sales cycles? Pete's 60 Second SaaStr: Hardest element of Pete's role today with Atrium? What would Pete most like to change in the world of SaaS? What sales leader does Pete most respect and why? Read the full transcript on our blog: https://www.saastr.com/saastr-podcast-356-with-atrium-co-founder-pete-kazanjy/ If you would like to find out more about the show and the guests presented, you can follow us on Twitter here: Jason Lemkin Harry Stebbings SaaStr Pete Kazanjy

Pete Kazanjy

Co-founder

Atrium