Why Platforms Win and Point Solutions Fail with Rippling CEO Parker Conrad
As a three-time founder, Parker Conrad has one piece of advice for aspiring entrepreneurs—don’t do it. The Rippling co-founder and CEO joins Sarah Guo to talk about what he learned from the crash at Zenefits, why most advice to founders is wrong, and how building a real platform—not a point solution—is the only way to win in SaaS. The two get into founder psychology, the myth of learning from failure, and what true ownership looks like inside a company. He also shares why AI won’t shrink teams anytime soon, what people misunderstand about vertical software, and why ambition trumps efficiency with long-lasting companies.
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Chapters:
00:00 Introduction to Parker Conrad
00:33 Lessons from Zenefits to Rippling
01:54 The Psychology of Founding a Company
07:56 Rippling's Ambitious Vision
10:41 Building a Platform Company
15:05 Challenges and Strategies in Scaling
30:36 AI's Impact on Software Development
42:06 Public vs. Private: Rippling's Future
44:19 Conclusion
Found: Has Rippling won? with Parker Conrad from Rippling
HR software is big, big business. And no one understands that better than Parker Conrad the CEO and co-founder of Rippling, a global HR company that offers global payroll, onboarding, time tracking, benefits management and more. This week, Equity is bringing you an episode of our sister show, Found. The Found crew talk with Conrad about what goes into building a leading HR tech company—from what it’s like building out features companies love, to dealing with fierce competition in this ever growing landscape. Conrad also gets into the power imbalance that can arise between VCs and founders and the drama at his previous company that inspired him to build Rippling.
Found posts every Tuesday. Subscribe on Apple, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts to be alerted when new episodes drop. Check out the other TechCrunch podcast: Equity . Subscribe to Found to hear more stories from founders each week.
Credits: Equity is produced by Theresa Loconsolo with editing by Kell. Bryce Durbin is our Illustrator. We'd also like to thank the audience development team and Henry Pickavet, who manages TechCrunch audio products.
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EP 117: Parker Conrad (CEO, Rippling) His Opinion on Founder Mode, Fundraising, and VC Advice
Parker Conrad has spent the last 8 years building Rippling into a $13B company, marking his redemption after being ousted from Zenefits. In his second appearance on the podcast, Parker and I discussed Paul Graham's "founder mode" essay and how he operationalizes it at Rippling. He also reflected on the key lessons he's learned throughout his career, highlighting the differences in how he ran Zenefits compared to Rippling today. Additionally, Parker shared his candid views on the challenges of having investors as board members and why he believes much of VC "value add" is overrated.
(00:00) Intro
(01:31) Parker's Leadership Principles at Rippling
(02:16) The Importance of Anecdotal Evidence
(04:09) Balancing Founder Mode and Team Collaboration
(05:08) The Risks of Over-Extrapolating Founder Mode
(06:56) The Reality of Sales Compensation
(08:15) Hiring Founders for New Products
(11:10) The Pace of Execution in a Company
(11:21) The 'C on a Box' Dilemma
(12:07) The Speed vs. Quality Debate
(13:56) The Viral Tweet Incident
(16:51) Governance and Board Dynamics
(20:04) Choosing the Right Investors
(29:57) The Role of Career VCs as Board Members
(33:43) Misaligned Incentives Between Founders and Investors
(35:43) Navigating Business Challenges
(36:27) Sam Altman's Crucial Support
(38:45) The Role of Venture Capitalists
(40:06) The Value of Y Combinator
(43:16) Fundraising and Valuations
(01:00:39) Lessons from Past Ventures
(01:06:05) Building Compound Software
(01:09:33) The Future of Compound Software Businesses
(01:10:04) Microsoft's Unassailable Approach
(01:10:40) Building Narrow vs. Compound Software
(01:12:16) Investment Decisions in New vs. Existing Products
(01:14:42) Platform Development and Resource Allocation
(01:16:32) The Journey from Chem Major to Software Visionary
(01:18:34) Challenges and Strategies in Multi-Product R&D
(01:25:32) Improving Customer Support Metrics
(01:28:50) The Role of a Founder in Product Management
(01:31:23) Hiring and Cultivating Executive Talent
(01:39:07) The Motivation Behind Rippling's Success
(01:41:58) Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Executive Producer: Rashad Assir
Producer: Leah Clapper
Mixing and editing: Justin Hrabovsky
Check out Unsupervised Learning, Redpoint's AI Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@UCUl-s_Vp-Kkk_XVyDylNwLA
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About the Show
Logan Bartlett is a Software Investor at Redpoint Ventures - a Silicon Valley-based VC with $6B AUM and investments in Snowflake, DraftKings, Twilio, and Netflix. In each episode of The Logan Bartlett Show, we sit down with the people behind today’s most important startups and extract the tactics, lessons, and frameworks they’ve learned the hard way. Conversations span hiring to GTM, product, growth, fundraising and everything in between - collectively forming the ultimate playbook to make you a better CEO, investor or board member.
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Parker Conrad (CEO, Rippling): The Zenefits Redemption Story That Led to Rippling ($11B)
In this memorable episode from our podcast archives, we revisit our conversation with Parker Conrad, Co-Founder of Rippling and former CEO of Zenefits. Parker opens up about his entrepreneurial path, detailing everything from fundraising challenges to his departure from Zenefits and the founding of Rippling. We also discuss the dynamics between VCs and founders, including what founders really value from investors, as well as the many entrepreneurial lessons Parker has gained from growing four companies (including two that reached unicorn status).
This episode was originally aired in May 2022.
(00:00) Intro
(01:25) Parker's Early Life and Education
(02:08) Parker's Experience at Harvard and Early Career
(05:21) Parker's Journey to Entrepreneurship
(08:27) The Founding of Sigfig and Challenges Faced
(10:15) The Birth of Zenefits and its Rapid Growth
(13:13) The Downfall of Zenefits and Lessons Learned
(19:12) Parker's Perspective on Media Narratives and VC Involvement
(35:48) The Power of Investors and Branding
(37:22) The Influence of Media on Investment Success
(38:42) The Role of Venture Capitalists and Founders
(39:39) The Impact of Social Media on Business
(40:48) The Rise of Andreessen Horowitz
(41:18) Introducing Rippling: A New Approach to Business Software
(41:32) The Power of Employee Data in Business Software
(49:47) The Advantages of Compound Companies
(56:13) The Role of Founders in Business Units
(01:09:20) The State of San Francisco and the Tech Industry
Executive Producer: Rashad Assir
Producer: Leah Clapper
Mixing and editing: Justin Hrabovsky
Check out Unsupervised Learning, Redpoint's AI Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@UCUl-s_Vp-Kkk_XVyDylNwLA
🎥 Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCugS0jD5IAdoqzjaNYzns7w?sub_confirmation=1
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🎬 Clips on TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@theloganbartlettshow
About the Show
Logan Bartlett is a Software Investor at Redpoint Ventures - a Silicon Valley-based VC with $6B AUM and investments in Snowflake, DraftKings, Twilio, and Netflix. In each episode of The Logan Bartlett Show, we sit down with the people behind today’s most important startups and extract the tactics, lessons, and frameworks they’ve learned the hard way. Conversations span hiring to GTM, product, growth, fundraising and everything in between - collectively forming the ultimate playbook to make you a better CEO, investor or board member.
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#162 CEO & Co-Founder Rippling, Parker Conrad w/ Mamoon Hamid: Compounding
Guests: Parker Conrad, CEO of Rippling, and Mamoon Hamid, partner at Kleiner Perkins
How long did it take for Parker Conrad to stop wanting revenge? “I’ll let you know when it switches over,” the Rippling CEO and co-founder jokes. He resigned from his last company, the buzzy HR unicorn Zenefits, in 2016 and then quickly realized that the company’s new leaders would never return it to its former glory. He still loved the problems he had been trying to solve, and launched Rippling because “there was an opportunity there, [and] if it works ... it’s going to be fundamentally and foundationally better as a product.” It worked. As of March, Rippling has been valued at more than $11 billion, more than double Zenefits’ peak.
In this episode, Parker, Mamoon, and Joubin discuss what happened at Zenefits, avoiding press coverage, FOMO and expectations, Paul Graham, fixing corporate insurance, Ryan Peterson’s “revenge portfolio,” CEO coaches, Mike Vernal, approving expenses, anecdata, and the Costco of SaaS.
In this episode, we cover:
How Parker and Mamoon met (00:56)
The Zenefits Series B (06:29)
“Stuck in a nightmare” (09:20)
Entrepreneurship is “soul-destroying” (12:46)
Parker’s first company, SigFig (17:17)
Starting a company for the right reasons (21:02)
Starting over after Zenefits (27:06)
Avenging Zenefits (31:57)
Rippling’s unusual Series A (38:40)
What it does well (43:13)
“Go and see” (46:35)
The compound startup (51:44)
Who Rippling is hiring and what “grit” means to Parker (01:00:39)
Links:
Connect with ParkerTwitter
LinkedIn
Connect with JoubinTwitter
LinkedIn
Email: grit@kleinerperkins.com
Learn more about Kleiner Perkins
This episode was edited by Eric Johnson from LightningPod.fm
SaaStr 670: CRO Confidential: Why The First Rule You Know About Building Software is Wrong. Rippling CEO Parker Conrad's Theory of the Compound Startup. Hosted by Sam Blond, Partner at Founders Fund
The First Rule You Know About Building Software is Wrong.
Discover why with Rippling CEO and Co-Founder, Parker Conrad, and Sam Blond, Partner at Founders Fund. In this session, Parker will explain step-by-step his theory of the compound startup and how it can help you scale your SaaS company.
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20VC: What are the World's Tech Leaders Running From? Fear? Insecurity? Poverty? What Drives the Best with Orlando Bravo, Bill Ackman, Dara Khosrowshahi, Parker Conrad, Tobi Luttke, Brian Armstrong and more..
Orlando Bravo is a Founder and Managing Partner of Thoma Bravo. He led Thoma Bravo's early entry into software buyouts and built the firm into one of the top private equity firms in the world.
Tobi Lütke is the CEO and Co-Founder of Shopify, the powerhouse company allowing anyone to start and grow their e-commerce business.
Dara Khosrowshahi is the CEO of Uber, where he has managed the company's business in more than 70 countries around the world since 2017.
Parker Conrad is the Founder & CEO @ Rippling, the company that lets you easily manage your employees' payroll, benefits, expenses, devices, apps & more—in one place.
Jamie Siminoff is the Founder and Chief Inventor @ Ring, with Ring Jamie, created the world's first Wi-Fi video doorbell while working in his garage in 2011. The company sold to Amazon for $1BN.
Martín Escobari is Co-President, Managing Director and Head of General Atlantic's business in Latin America. Martín is Chairman of the firm's Investment Committee and also serves on the Management and Portfolio Committees.
Ariel Cohen is the Co-Founder and CEO @ Navan (formerly TripActions), the #1 travel management super-app used by over 8,000 companies.
Tarek Mansour is the Founder and CEO @ Kalshi, the first regulated exchange where you can trade directly on the outcome of events.
Brian Armstrong is the Co-Founder and CEO @ Coinbase, the easiest place to buy and sell cryptocurrency. Over the last 10 years, Brian has led Coinbase to today, a public company with over 3,500 employees and revenues of over $7.5BN in 2021.
Question of the Day:
What are the world's tech leaders running from?
Parker Conrad - Building a Compound Company - [Invest Like the Best, EP.303]
My guest today is Parker Conrad, co-founder and CEO of Rippling. I wanted to speak to Parker because he is building Rippling in a way that we don’t come across often. Rather than focus narrowly on one product, he is building a suite of interrelated products simultaneously to carry out the functions of HR, Finance, and IT for companies. He calls it a compound company and we discuss the idea, as well as some of his other non-traditional theories, in detail. Please enjoy this conversation with Parker Conrad.
For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page here.
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This episode is brought to you by Brex. Brex is the integrated financial platform trusted by the world's most innovative entrepreneurs and fastest-growing companies. With Brex, you can move money fast for instant impact with high-limit corporate cards, payments, venture debt, and spend management software all in one place. Ready to accelerate your business? Learn more at brex.com/best.
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Invest Like the Best is a property of Colossus, LLC. For more episodes of Invest Like the Best, visit joincolossus.com/episodes.
Past guests include Tobi Lutke, Kevin Systrom, Mike Krieger, John Collison, Kat Cole, Marc Andreessen, Matthew Ball, Bill Gurley, Anu Hariharan, Ben Thompson, and many more.
Stay up to date on all our podcasts by signing up to Colossus Weekly, our quick dive every Sunday highlighting the top business and investing concepts from our podcasts and the best of what we read that week. Sign up here.
Follow us on Twitter: @patrick_oshag | @JoinColossus
Show Notes
[00:02:36] - [First question] - Overview of what a compound startup is
[00:06:32] - What he’s learned about picking customers effectively
[00:08:48] - Key chapters when it comes to building a compound startup
[00:13:48] - What great looks like at the base level infrastructure of employee data
[00:20:15] - His overall philosophy on product development writ large
[00:25:09] - His role as a capital allocator and distributing resources to his teams
[00:27:19] - The amount of products they offer and whether or not there’s a tradeoff between time, cost, and quality when building software
[00:31:36] - Possibly incorporating an app-like store on top of their existing infrastructure
[00:34:43] - Speed and the kinds of people that can sustain it for long periods of time
[00:36:30] - What motivates him on a personal level and harnessing motivation in general
[00:42:31] - Whether or not there’s an end to feeling hurt by false public perceptions when building in public
[00:44:12] - The intersection of leadership and communication inside of a business and what he’s learned about great communication
[00:48:00] - The paradox of how focusing on non-scalable actions perpetuates growth and productivity and his views on productivity-per-person
[00:50:36] - The best example of a moment that required the most grit and perseverance while building his company
[00:52:28] - How to successfully get former founders to come work for him
[00:54:47] - What good private equity investors do
[00:58:31] - The kindest thing anyone has ever done for him
20VC: Rippling's Parker Conrad on The Four Main Benefits From Building a Compound Startup | Why There Should Never Be a Trade-Off Between Speed and Quality | How Zenefits Gave Parker a Chip on the Shoulder and Why That is so Important?
Parker Conrad is the Founder & CEO @ Rippling, the company that lets you easily manage your employees' payroll, benefits, expenses, devices, apps & more—in one place. To date, Parker has raised over $697M for Rippling from some of the best including Sequoia, Founders Fund, Greenoaks, Bedrock, Kleiner Perkins and Initialized to name a few. Prior to founding Rippling, Parker was the Co-Founder and CEO @ Zenefits and if that was not enough, Parker is also a prominent angel having invested in Census, Pulley and then also AgentSync and TrueNorth, alongside 20VC Fund.
In Today's Episode with Parker Conrad:
1.) Entry in Startups and Zenefits:
How did Parker make his way into the world of startups?
How did Parker end up being kicked out of his own company, Zenefits? How did he respond?
How did that experience of being kicked out of Zenefits inspire him to build Rippling?
2.) Parker Conrad: The Leader:
How does Parker define "high performance"? How would Parker describe his leadership style today?
Why does Parker fundamentally disagree that with speed comes a trade-off in quality? How does Parker ensure Rippling does all things fast and to the best of its ability?
How would Parker break down his decision-making framework today? How does he decide what to prioritize vs not? How does he decide what to delegate vs not?
What are Parker's biggest insecurities in leadership today? How have they changed over time? What does Parker do to combat and mitigate them?
3.) Rippling: The Compound Startup
How does Parker define a compound startup?
What types of business do this verticalized approach work for vs not work for?
What does Parker believe are the 4 core benefits of this approach?
What are the single biggest challenges of building a compound startup?
4.) Rippling: The Economics:
How does this compound startup approach impact ability to cross-sell? How much net new ARR today comes from cross-sell?
What have been some of Rippling's biggest lessons on what it takes to do cross-sell so effectively?
How do the margin profiles differ across their different products? How have the margin profiles changed over time?
Why does Parker not believe that most startup margins are accurate?
How does the compound startup approach change the amount invested in R&D? How does that impact the fundraising requirements of the business?
5.) Rippling: The Partner Ecosystem:
How does Rippling think about building out the best partner ecosystem? What will it take for that to work?
Why do Rippling want to introduce services that compete with their own products? Why do they not only build their own?
How do the margins differ when comparing revenue share on partner products vs Rippling products?
What are the single biggest barriers to this partner ecosystem working?
EP 18: Parker Conrad, Sequoia’s Leaked Deck, a Different Kind of Crisis and VCs vs. Hedge Funds
(00:08) Welcome Zach Weinberg
(00:55) Andreessen Horowitz/Flow Carbon
(10:41) Crypto Litigation Risk
(16:27) Venture vs. Hedge Funds
(22:25) Sequoia’s Leaked Deck
(27:04) Different Kind of Crisis
(28:20) Tech Companies Had It Easy
(30:21) Uber vs. Lyft
(34:16) Down Rounds
(40:27) High Valuation Doesn’t Mean Good Employment
(45:31) 2008 Work Force
(49:50) Parker Conrad Intro
(50:13) Working on Harvard’s Crimson
(52:45) Left School for a Little Rock Newspaper
(55:13) Cancer Diagnosis
(57:16) Starting SigFig
(58:52) Raising Money Pre-2013
(1:05:29) Challenges in Automating
(1:08:36) The Public Narrative
(1:10:36) Forced Out of Zenefits
(1:19:50) VC’s Role in Narrative
(1:22:59) What Do Founders Want From VCs?
(1:25:46) Do VCs Increase Success?
(1:30:09) Discussing Rippling
(1:38:16) Building a Compound Company
(1:46:56) Hiring People With a Chip On Their Shoulder
(1:49:02) Most Important Job of a CEO
(1:51:05) Raised the Next Round
(1:54:47) Determining the Valuation
(1:58:09) San Francisco
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Mixed and edited: Justin Hrabovsky
Produced: Andrew Nadeau and Rashad Assir
Executive Producer: Josh Machiz
Music: Griff Lawson
Links:
Sequoia’s Leaked Deck - https://fortune.com/2022/05/25/sequoia-capital-slide-dek-warning-to-founders-downturn/
Zack’s Twitter Battle - https://twitter.com/zachweinberg/status/1527107650911186944?s=20&t=DN_FdiP-WW6rDwmHNkJPTA
Parker Conrad Discussing Chip on Their Shoulder - https://techcrunch.com/2021/11/18/parker-conrad-i-like-working-with-people-who-have-a-chip-on-their-shoulder/?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAAqlH6GlRJ8EA-ptL8cD-XPUGeoXNRqKe9l_Qegi--qyyHZQrMTJ8bwlg47vSJ9rkc2eaJlUKyMvb3wA-Rw2PjFYJl5gUwZfO0WPMLF-tRT_lVDYq_uoEnC29d6L45AlVFRTnPJqbCPEJM0_ICBeqES_kZ8t5gUQkVg7BwMKsGs7
Chesa Boudin and San Francisco - https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/05/chesa-boudin-recall-san-francisco-crime/629907/
Andreessen Horowitz/Flow Carbon - https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexkonrad/2022/05/25/a16z-crypto-record-4th-fund-doubles-down-on-web3-amid-market-crash/?sh=7f704b7f34ff
VCs Driving Down Valuation Narrative - https://twitter.com/bgurley/status/1528535418076995584
Executive Producer: Rashad Assir
Producer: Leah Clapper
Mixing and editing: Justin Hrabovsky
Check out Unsupervised Learning, Redpoint's AI Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@UCUl-s_Vp-Kkk_XVyDylNwLA
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About the Show
Logan Bartlett is a Software Investor at Redpoint Ventures - a Silicon Valley-based VC with $6B AUM and investments in Snowflake, DraftKings, Twilio, and Netflix. In each episode of The Logan Bartlett Show, we sit down with the people behind today’s most important startups and extract the tactics, lessons, and frameworks they’ve learned the hard way. Conversations span hiring to GTM, product, growth, fundraising and everything in between - collectively forming the ultimate playbook to make you a better CEO, investor or board member.
Tap follow and enable notifications to stay ahead of the game.
20VC: Rippling's Parker Conrad on Why The VC/Founder Marriage Analogy is Weird, Why The Notion of Focus, Focus, Focus is Overrated, Why Narrow Point Solutions Are Not Best in Class Products & The Rise of the "Compound Startup"
Parker Conrad is the Founder and CEO @ Rippling, the employee management platform allowing you to manage your employees' payroll, benefits, devices and more—in one place. To date, Parker has raised over $197M for Rippling from the likes of Founders Fund, Kleiner Perkins, Initialized, Bedrock, Greenoaks and Coatue. Prior to founding Rippling, Parker was the Co-Founder and CEO @ Zenefits and if that was not enough, Parker is also a prominent angel having invested in the likes of Census, Pulley and then also AgentSync and TrueNorth, alongside 20VC Fund.
In Today's Episode with Parker Conrad You Will Learn:
1.) How did Parker make his way into the world of technology and startups? What was the founding a-ha moment for Parker with Rippling? How did his journey with Zenefits change or alter his leadership style today with Rippling?
2.) Why does Parker believe that the conventional advice of focus, focus, focus is BS? What does Parker mean when he states, "The Compound Startup"? How does the approach of the compound startup differ from traditional approaches of product and company building? What are the core benefits of using the compound startup approach?
3.) How does Parker think about providing sufficient product quality with an increasing breadth of product offering, entailed within a compound startup? In what way does pricing differ when comparing compound startups to traditional startups? How can compound startups optimise their pricing on a bundle basis? What has Slack and Microsoft taught us about this?
4.) Why does Parker disagree with the conventional analogy of the VC <> founder relationship being a marriage? Why does Parker refer to it more as a "General Contractor" relationship for a house? What can founders do to sufficiently protect themselves from overarching VCs? What can VCs do to be the very best partners to the founders they work with?
5.) How does Parker evaluate his relationship to money today? How has it changed over time? What does Parker know now that he wishes he had known at the start of his founding of Rippling? What have been Parker's biggest lessons on talent acquisition? Why did Parker decide to bring on a COO when he did? How has it changed his role?
Item's Mentioned In Today's Episode with Parker Conrad
Parker's Favourite Book: Matilda by Roald Dahl
As always you can follow Harry and The Twenty Minute VC on Twitter here!
SaaStr 237: Rippling's Parker Conrad on How To Clear The Bar of "Not Another System" Thinking in SaaS, Why Your Engineers Should Be Doing Support For As Long As Possible & Why Remote Teams Is The Worst Way To Build A Company, Apart From Every Other Way
Parker Conrad is the Founder & CEO @ Rippling, the startup that gives you back your time from payroll to employee computers, Rippling makes it unbelievably easy to manage your company's HR and IT - in one system. To date Parker has raised over $59m in funding from some of the best in the business including Mamoon @ Kleiner Perkins, Garry Tan @ Initialized, Justin Kan, SV Angel and Y Combinator, just to name a few. As for Parker, prior to founding Rippling, he was the Founder & CEO @ Zenefits, the startup he built from $0 to $60m in ARR in just 3 years. Before that he co-founded Sigfig where he grew assets on the platform to over $35Bn across 500k users.
In Today's Episode We Discuss:
How Parker made his way into the world of startups and SaaS, came to found Zenefits and what was that a-ha moment for the founding of his most recent company, Rippling?
What does Parker do with regards to operational scaling that is unconventional but works? Why does Parker believe it is fundamentally better to wait for as long as possible before hiring customer support? Why should engineers also be doing customer support?
Why should your engineers be heavily involved in the customer support hiring process? What are the benefits of this? How can one prevent their customer support team from being a wall of protection for the product and eng team? How can you ensure seamless collaboration and communication flow between product and customer support?
Stripe last week recently announced their 5th office would be… "remote", so how does Parker feel about the building of remote teams? What are the most important things when establishing your first remote team? What do you look for in those hires? What can be done to ensure a greater feeling of community and closeness despite the distance? What have been some of the biggest challenges for Parker in building out the remote team?
Parker has been a CEO with 3 different companies now and so how has he seen his style and approach change over the years? What has Parker found the hardest to get good at? When advising founders on fundraising, what advice does he give? How can founders know when is the right time to raise? How should they look to build relationships with investors between raises?
60 Second SaaStr:
What does Parker know now that he wishes he had known in the beginning?
What one thing would Parker like to change about tech and Silicon Valley?
Biggest mentor and what has Parker learned from them?
Read the full transcript on our blog.
If you would like to find out more about the show and the guests presented, you can follow us on Twitter here:
Jason Lemkin
Harry Stebbings
SaaStr
Parker Conrad