Jill Lepore

Dr. Jill Lepore is one of the best writers there is at identifying institutional patterns in history, and Decoder is a show about systems and organization — so her new book, The Rise and Fall of the Artificial State, is a perfect fit for the show. You build systems by measuring things — gathering information, quantifying it as data, and taking action on it. The book's big thesis is that this kind of systemic measurement is really a dehumanizing act, one that flattens humanity and human concerns into something, well, artificial. These artificial structures touch everything — not just in the more obvious places like in apps or AI, but all the way up to politics, governance, and the very future of the nation-state itself. Links: The Artificial State | The New Yorker ‘Terminator’ to tech titans: Jill Lepore on the ‘artificial state’ | Yale Univ. The failed ideas that drive Elon Musk | New York Times Sam Altman | The Joe Rogan Experience Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder! Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Decoder’s producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Xander Adams. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jill Lepore

Historian & Professor

Harvard University

In her latest book, We the People, the historian, New Yorker staff writer, and Harvard University professor Jill Lepore turns her attention to the history of the U.S. Constitution. Specifically, she focuses on all the ways our government’s foundational text has changed throughout its nearly 250 year history. Lepore calls Article V, which lays out the Constitution’s amendment mechanism, by far its most “radical innovation.” But she says the Constitution has become unamendable in the modern era — it hasn’t been meaningfully updated in more than a half-century, corroding our politics and government.  Kara and Jill break down why the Framers included a way to make changes to the Constitution, how we’re still grappling with Article V’s bad compromises, and why the now dominant judicial philosophy of originalism contradicts the Framers’ intent. Lepore also digs into whether the Constitution can withstand PresidentTrump’s constant attacks. Questions? Comments? Email us at on@voxmedia.com or find us on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, and Bluesky @onwithkaraswishe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jill Lepore

Historian & Professor

Harvard University