Optimism Co-Founders: What Happened to the L2s? Ben Jones & Karl Floersch
This week, Ben Jones and Karl Floersch join the show to discuss what happened to the L2s. We take a deep dive into Optimism's new strategy for 2026, the current state of Ethereum, why companies need to launch a chain, having a token, and more. Enjoy!
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Follow Karl: https://x.com/karl_dot_tech
Follow Ben: https://x.com/ben_chain
Follow Jason: https://x.com/JasonYanowitz
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Timestamps:
(00:00) Introduction
(03:43) What L2s Got Right vs Wrong
(12:46) peaq Ad
(13:42) Optimism’s Strategy in 2026
(32:36) What’s Optimism’s Moat?
(40:02) Who Needs To Build a Chain?
(51:20) The Current State of Ethereum
(59:39) Launching a Token
(01:03:10) What Defines Success in Crypto?
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Disclaimer: Nothing said on Empire is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Santiago, Jason, Rob and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.
The Chopping Block: Ethereum's Identity Crisis, Apostates Speak Out, and Is ETH the Microsoft of Crypto?
Ethereum's midlife crisis hits the podcast as ex-Bankless and ConsenSys insiders unpack ETH's talent exodus, identity spiral, "Microsoft" future, EF shake-ups, and the Solana contender play-all with spicy takes on airdrops, real dev stats, and blockchain adoption drama.
Welcome to The Chopping Block — where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest in crypto. This week, it's an Ethereum apostasy spectacular: we're joined by David Hoffman and Max Resnick, who hit the confessional booth to explain why they've left the church of Ethereum.
We kick off with David's viral "ETH is money" post-mortem: why he finally sold, and whether ETH can escape its spot on the yield farm for good. Max jumps in with an OG technologist's view on EF's internal struggles, talent flight, and the move-slow, break-nothing philosophy now gripping Ethereum's core. Is the EF just ossifying—or is it devolving into the "Microsoft of crypto"?
From there, the hosts dissect the "second foundation" meme, why Twitter doomers might not matter for the ETH price, and whether Solana has stolen the next generation of devs. Max throws down on Solana's quantum future while the group takes barstool shots at metrics, narratives, and the never-ending "Ethereum is for boomers" debate.
Whether you're a ride-or-die Etherean or just here for the schadenfreude, let's get into it.
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pods, Fountain, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.
Show highlights
🔹David Hoffman reveals why he sold all his ETH and stepped down from the "ETH is money"
pulpit
🔹Max Resnick on Ethereum's talent drain, EF's slow tech culture, and missing the Wall Street on-chain boat
🔹Why the Ethereum Foundation's leadership shuffle triggered so much existential dread
🔹The "Ethereum is Microsoft" thesis: ossification, enterprise comfort, and is that a bad thing?
🔹Are airdrops, stablecoin and NFT on-chain metrics just smoke and mirrors?
🔹Developer mindshare —did Solana peak? Has ETH truly lost the next-gen builders?
🔹Will a new "Number Go Up Foundation" for Ethereum change anything?
🔹Solana's post-quantum roadmap: why Max thinks ETH is over-complicating the problem
🔹What happens if Ethereum stops shipping upgrades —can it just coast Lindy-style?
🔹Is the future of crypto "strong" vs. "weak" crypto, and is ETH now firmly a boomer chain?
Hosts
⭐️Haseeb Qureshi, Managing Partner at Dragonfly
⭐️Tarun Chitra, Managing Partner at Robot Ventures
⭐️Tom Schmidt, General Partner at Dragonfly
Guest
⭐️ David Hoffman, Co-Founder at Bankless
⭐️ Max Resnick, Lead Economist at Anza
“Why I Sold My ETH” by David Hoffman
https://x.com/TrustlessState/status/2059371247163613489
Timestamps
00:00 Intro
03:12 Why David Sold ETH
05:26 ETH Momentum and Value Capture
07:38 Ethereum Foundation Shakeups
10:18 Max on Tech and Identity Crisis
15:57 Talent Drain and New Blood
19:29 Strong vs Weak Crypto Debate
25:28 Ethereum as Microsoft
30:02 Second Foundation Idea
35:43 Microsoft Era Ethereum
38:20 EF Money Runs Out
42:02 Utility Asset Narrative
46:07 Etherealize Enterprise Push
48:04 Bitcoin Has Saylor
53:32 Ethereum Narrative Whiplash
55:51 Solana As The Yang
58:15 Post Quantum Solana Roadmap
Disclosures
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Uneasy Money: How the Increasingly Better AI Agents Are Being Used Onchain
Thank you to our sponsors!
Fuse: The Energy Network
MultiChain Advisors
Vitalik Buterin just dropped a bombshell: the L2 vision no longer makes sense. Meanwhile, AI coding agents are going parabolic.
In this monster episode of Uneasy Money, Ethereum Foundation Head of Developer Growth Austin Griffith and Optimism co-founder Karl Floersch join hosts Kain Warwick and Taylor Monahan to unpack the reasoning behind Vitalik's remarks and debate whether Ethereum needs L2s to pull institutions.
They also take a deep dive into the OpenClaw and Moltbook craze and Austin shares how he has different agents running on different machines, including one that texts his wife good morning everyday. Is “AI the new UI?”
Hosts:
Kain Warwick, Founder of Infinex and Synthetix
Taylor Monahan, Security Expert, Metamask
Guests:
Austin Griffith, AI Lead at Ethereum Foundation
Karl Floersh, CTO of OP Labs
Links:
Vitalik Rethinks Ethereum’s L2 Playbook, Calls for Shift Toward Native Rollups
How the x402 Standard Is Enabling AI Agents to Pay Each Other
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Ethereum Gave Away Too Much for Too Long. Will Its Pivot Be Enough? - Ep. 829
After years of underperformance, Ethereum is trying to change course, from scaling the layer 1 to potentially dumping the EVM. In this episode, Tarun Chitra and Max Resnick break down each of these new changes, analyzing the good, the bad, and the ugly.
Is this a reset that can save Ethereum’s market position and price? Or has the protocol given away too much for too long?
They dive into:
Whether the gas limit increase changes everything
What went wrong with Ethereum’s economics and solo staking politics
Max’s view on “the single most important” change Ethereum needs to make
How ETH could claw back value from layer 2s
What Max would do if he ran Ethereum
Whether this pivot is too little, too late
Visit our website for breaking news, analysis, op-eds, articles to learn about crypto, and much more: unchainedcrypto.com
Bitwise https://bitwiseinvestments.com/ciomemo
Tarun Chitra, CEO and Co-Founder of Gauntlet
Max Resnick, Lead economist at Anza
Unchained:
Ethereum Ecosystem Shifts Toward User Focus
Ethereum Developers Vote EOF Out of Fusaka Hard Fork
Vitalik Buterin Proposes Replacing Ethereum Virtual Machine
The Block:
Vitalik and new Ethereum Foundation co-executive directors outline updated board structure, mission
Vitalik Buterin- and StarkWare-backed Kakarot reveals alternative Ethereum ZK stack, targeting real-time STARK proofs on Layer 1 by end of 2025
CoinDesk: Ethereum Could Supercharge Transaction Speed to 2,000 TPS Thanks to Bold New Proposal
Simplifying the L1 by Vitalik Buterin
Timestamps:
👋 0:00 Introduction
🛠️ 2:05 Why Ethereum had to pivot and what triggered the urgency
📈 7:16 Why raising the gas limit could actually be a big deal
💻 9:12 Whether Ethereum devs are too idealistic
⚡ 19:02 How Solana managed to outperform Ethereum at the base layer
👨🏫 24:09 Why Max feels Vitalik’s proposals focus on outdated technology
🔧 27:57 The growing gap between Ethereum research and its execution clients
👍 35:02 The ONE thing Max thinks Ethereum is doing well
⚖️ 40:38 Did “credible neutrality” push Ethereum down the wrong path?
🌀 48:23 Will the new Ethereum R1 rollup succeed?
🔀 52:53 What the new updates mean for layer 2s and their value proposition
📉 1:02:58 Whether ETH is finally due for a price reversal
🎯 1:09:12 Why Ethereum should take a page from Trump’s strategy playbook
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Are L2s Extensions of Ethereum? | Kyle Samani & Max Resnick vs. David Hoffman & Jill Gunter
Bankless Nation, we’ve got the hottest debate in crypto right now: Are L2s extensions of Ethereum?
On one side, we’ve got Kyle Samani and Max Resnick proposing that the current Ethereum Rollup-Centric Roadmap is off-track. On the other side we’ve got David Hoffman and Jill Gunter defending L2s as successful extensions of Ethereum.
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------ TIMESTAMPS
0:00 Intro 8:54 Defending “Extensions of Ethereum” 16:33 Interoperability Standards 25:36 Are L2s Parasitic to Ethereum? 32:37 ETH Economics & Value Accrual 41:30 Solana vs Ethereum L2s 49:09 Closing Thoughts
------ RESOURCES
Kyle Samani https://x.com/KyleSamani
Max Resnick https://x.com/MaxResnick1
Jill Gunter https://x.com/jillrgunter
------ Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here: https://www.bankless.com/disclosures
Announcing Unichain | DeFi's Next Frontier?
Unichain Is Here! Joining us today is Hayden Adams of Uniswap and Karl Floersch of Optimism to explain the exciting new release and vision for the future of Ethereum and appchains.
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🎬 DEBRIEF | Ryan & David unpacking the episode: https://www.bankless.com/debrief-announcing-uni
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------ TIMESTAMPS 00:00:00 Start 00:05:51 Announcing Unichain! 00:11:51 How Will Unichain Work? 00:17:21 Superchain And Interoperability 00:19:38 Superchain Enhancements 00:26:12 Unichain User Experience 00:30:43 What About Other Superchains? 00:38:49 Unfragmenting The Fragmentation 00:43:58 Coordinating All Of Ethereum 00:49:08 UNI Token 00:52:47 Should DeFi Live On L1? 00:57:57 What Success Looks Like 01:01:15 The Path To Superchain 01:03:19 Release Dates
------ RESOURCES
Unichain: https://unichain.org/
Hayden: https://x.com/haydenzadams
Karl: https://x.com/karl_dot_tech
------ Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here: https://www.bankless.com/disclosures
Is the Ethereum Roadmap Off Track? | Max Resnick
Is the Ethereum roadmap… off track? Have we lost the plot? Are L2s running interference, intercepting all the users, transactions, and value from reaching the L1? And if all of this is real, and not just FUD, what should we do about it?
We have Max Resnick on the show today, he's an Ethereum researcher working at Special Mechanism Group and he’s got some opinions that are contrary to what is typically found out of the Ethereum Rollup Centric Roadmap.
Max explains why Ethereum is breaking down on its vision for bringing the world onto decentralized, censorship resistant, permissionless blockchains, and suggests possible alternative directions.
------ 🎬 DEBRIEF | Ryan & David Unpacking the Episode: https://www.bankless.com/debrief-the-max-resnick-interview
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------ TIMESTAMPS
0:00 Intro 5:08 Max’s Contrarian Take 12:20 The State of Rollups 17:59 Are L2s Extensions of Ethereum? 27:52 What Needs to Change 44:33 Based Rollups 50:05 The Holy Grail Blockchain 59:02 Scaling the L1 1:05:29 Max’s Incentives 1:09:53 Why Not Solana? 1:14:06 Navigating ETH’s Roadmap 1:18:05 ETH: The Asset 1:22:15 Value Capture 1:23:58 Call to Action 1:26:43 Closing & Disclaimers
------ RESOURCES
Max Resnick https://x.com/MaxResnick1
Max Resnick Holy Grail Blockchain Tweet https://x.com/MaxResnick1/status/1826630256008331301
------ Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here: https://www.bankless.com/disclosures
Multi-Proposers & The Future Of Ethereum
In this special early access episode we're joined by Paradigm's Georgios Konstantopoulos and Charlie Noyes, along with Max Resnick from Special Mechanisms Group to discuss a possible change in direction for one part of the Ethereum Roadmap.
This is a deeply technical episode that covers the history of MEV and new innovations that plan to change it all from the comfort of David's apartment studio, enjoy.
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------ TIMESTAMPS 00:00:00 Start 00:05:14 Intro To Our Guests 00:09:21 Proposer Builder Seperation 00:12:39 Stepping Forward vs Patching 00:19:35 Getting Rid Of MEV? 00:26:35 Inclusion Lists 00:40:14 What is Braid? 00:50:43 The Bear Case 01:06:37 Vitalik's Take 01:10:53 The Benefits of Braid 01:20:28 L2 Centric Roadmap Changes? 01:36:26 How's Rust Going? 01:44:49 Other Exciting Roadmap Updates 01:57:52 Call To Action
------ RESOURCES
Georgios: https://x.com/gakonst
Max: https://x.com/MaxResnick1
Charlie: https://x.com/_charlienoyes
------ Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here: https://www.bankless.com/disclosures
Optimism Base Superchain 🔵_🔴 with Ben Jones, Karl Floersch, & Jing Wang
In today's show, we bring on Ben Jones, Chief Scientist of the Optimism Foundation, Karl Floersch, CTO at OP Labs, and Jing Wang, Executive Director of Optimism Foundation
The five discuss Coinbase's Base launch, the OP Stack integration, and what it means for the Superchains vision!
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KRAKEN | MOST-TRUSTED CRYPTO EXCHANGE https://bankless.cc/kraken
UNISWAP | ON-CHAIN MARKETPLACE https://bankless.cc/uniswap
️ ARBITRUM | SCALING ETHEREUM https://bankless.cc/Arbitrum
EARNIFI | CLAIM YOUR UNCLAIMED AIRDROPS https://bankless.cc/earnifi
------ Timestamps:
0:00 Intro 6:20 Sentiment at Optimism 7:00 Biggest Deal with the News? 11:28 Reflection on Coinbase's Base 15:45 OP Stack 17:15 Is Base a Competitor? 20:53 Puberty State of Chains 33:30 Superchains 40:35 Security of the Superchains 44:35 Superchain Standards 51:51 Base Decentralization Timeline? 57:10 Closing & Disclaimers
------ Resources:
Coinbase Base Announcement https://www.coinbase.com/blog/introducing-base
Optimism + OP STack Details https://optimism.mirror.xyz/2jk3D1Y8-hid8YOCUUa6yXmsyzNCYYyFJP0Nhaey9x0
Ben Jones https://twitter.com/ben_chain
Karl Floersch https://twitter.com/karl_dot_tech
Jing Wang https://twitter.com/jinglejamop
----- Not financial or tax advice. This channel is strictly educational and is not investment advice or a solicitation to buy or sell any assets or to make any financial decisions. This video is not tax advice. Talk to your accountant. Do your own research.
Disclosure. From time-to-time I may add links in this newsletter to products I use. I may receive commission if you make a purchase through one of these links. Additionally, the Bankless writers hold crypto assets. See our investment disclosures here: https://www.bankless.com/disclosures
The Eternal Optimist with Karl Floersch | Layer Zero
Karl Floersch is the co-founder of Optimism, the Ethereum rollup scaling solution, as well as one of the primary advocates in the space for public goods funding. Through his prolific body of work—as well as a boundless well of optimism and energy—Karl is a core beating heart of Ethereum culture, as well as a schelling point for values and ethos across the ecosystem.
We say it every episode: the code we write impacts the people who use it. Few embody this declaration more than Karl, whose deepest passion is building technological infrastructure to incentivize ethical behavior.
We also explore the concept of ‘Ether’s Phoenix,’ a hypothetical being that rewards you for manifesting it—directly contrasting the concept of Roko’s Basilisk (research at your own risk).
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------ Topics Covered:
0:00 Intro 5:00 Inspiration and Leaders 10:10 Road to Ethereum 16:13 For the Right Reasons 21:12 Embedding Values 28:35 The School of Fish 34:38 The Future Karl Sees 42:00 The Human Body Metaphor 47:44 The Decentralized Brain 52:25 Retroactive Public Goods Funding 57:14 Distributing Funds 1:01:08 Unprecedented Opportunity 1:04:59 R*ku’s B*silisk 1:08:39 Ether’s Phoenix (caw!) 1:15:40 A Just Utopia
------ Resources:
Karl Floersch: https://twitter.com/karl_dot_tech Optimism: https://twitter.com/optimismPBC Ether’s Phoenix: https://medium.com/ethereum-optimism/ethers-phoenix-18fb7d7304bb
----- Not financial or tax advice. This channel is strictly educational and is not investment advice or a solicitation to buy or sell any assets or to make any financial decisions. This video is not tax advice. Talk to your accountant. Do your own research.
Disclosure. From time-to-time I may add links in this newsletter to products I use. I may receive commission if you make a purchase through one of these links. Additionally, the Bankless writers hold crypto assets. See our investment disclosures here: https://newsletter.banklesshq.com/p/bankless-disclosures
Ether's Phoenix with Optimism's Karl Floersch | GreenPill #2
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Apple Show Link: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/greenpill/id1609313639
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Karl Floersch is the co-founder of Optimism, the Ethereum rollup scaling solution, as well as one of the primary advocates in the space for public goods funding.
Karl is inspiring on many levels—both individually with his seemingly boundless optimism and energy, and also his prolific work in the Ethereum ecosystem.
Optimism is simultaneously scaling Ethereum’s transaction space and its values & ethos, pledging to recycle its fees into public goods. A central goal of regenerative finance is to align economic value with our moral values, and Karl’s work on retroactive public goods funding is pushing us towards that brighter, solarpunk future.
We also explore the concept of ‘Ether’s Phoenix,’ a hypothetical being that rewards you for manifesting it—directly contrasting the concept of Roko’s Basilisk (research at your own risk).
Take the Green Pill, anon.
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------ Topics Covered:
0:00 Intro 2:40 Karl Floersch 4:38 Optimism & Public Goods 7:30 Solving Governance 11:32 Retroactive Public Goods Funding 18:09 The Endgame 21:18 Karl’s Favorite Public Goods 28:25 Ether’s Phoenix 32:12 Grinding & Mindset 34:02 Memes & Narratives 37:49 Closing
------ Resources:
Karl on Twitter: https://twitter.com/karl_dot_tech?s=20&t=-oO_ckIiZ6BKahlmZVvB8w
Kevin on Twitter: https://twitter.com/owocki?s=20&t=A1yy1WYtQlNAOiSxXtGuNQ
Vitalik on Twitter: https://twitter.com/VitalikButerin?s=20&t=6oPk84CaEN12Es6e7Nze3A
Optimism: https://twitter.com/optimismPBC?s=20&t=-oO_ckIiZ6BKahlmZVvB8w
----- Music by WABI SABI - snowflake - https://thmatc.co/?l=7786B012
----- Not financial or tax advice. This channel is strictly educational and is not investment advice or a solicitation to buy or sell any assets or to make any financial decisions. This video is not tax advice. Talk to your accountant. Do your own research.
Disclosure. From time-to-time I may add links in this newsletter to products I use. I may receive commission if you make a purchase through one of these links. Additionally, the Bankless writers hold crypto assets. See our investment disclosures here: https://newsletter.banklesshq.com/p/bankless-disclosures
The State of Optimism | Ben Jones & Karl Floersch (SotN 8/10)
Optimism is scaling Ethereum with its open-source Optimistic Rollup. Uniswap recently deployed on Optimistic Ethereum, officially kicking off Ethereum's Scalability Summer. Where does Optimism stand now? What's next?
Optimists Ben Jones & Karl Floersch join to talk about working on Ethereum’s hardest problems and pioneering a better future for humanity.
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Topics Covered:
0:00 Intro 7:00 Ben Jones & Karl Floersch 9:10 Is Ethereum Scaling? 10:03 The History of Optimism 16:20 A Scaled Ethereum Chain 19:26 A Mental Model & Theme Parks 27:24 Governors & Contracts 29:29 Infrastructure & Use Cases 37:07 The Optimistic EVM 41:32 How Much Scale is There? 49:04 Latency & Liquidity 58:59 Layer 2 to Layer 2 1:06:29 Understanding Tradeoffs 1:09:18 MEV & Sequencing 1:19:17 Power & Responsibility 1:27:08 Saving Humanity 1:29:48 Fire Round Questions 1:34:54 Closing & Disclaimers
------ Resources:
Optimism: https://optimism.io/ Ben on Twitter: https://twitter.com/ben_chain?s=20 Karl on Twitter: https://twitter.com/karl_dot_tech?s=20
----- Not financial or tax advice. This channel is strictly educational and is not investment advice or a solicitation to buy or sell any assets or to make any financial decisions. This video is not tax advice. Talk to your accountant. Do your own research.
Disclosure. From time-to-time I may add links in this newsletter to products I use. I may receive commission if you make a purchase through one of these links. Additionally, the Bankless writers hold crypto assets. See our investment disclosures here: https://newsletter.banklesshq.com/p/bankless-disclosures