As part of our summer replay series, we're revisiting one of our most-discussed conversations from the past year.
David Sacks joins Marc Andreessen, Ben Horowitz, and Erik Torenberg to discuss the intersection of AI, crypto, regulation, and American competitiveness.
The conversation explores the Trump administration's approach to AI and crypto policy, open source AI, export controls, energy and infrastructure, the global race with China, and the role regulation plays in shaping innovation. They also discuss stablecoins, the future of AI development, permissionless innovation, and why they believe America's long-term advantage depends on enabling builders rather than slowing them down.
Along the way, Sacks shares his perspective on AI safety, decentralized technology, federal versus state regulation, and what it will take for the U.S. to remain the global leader in emerging technologies.
Resources:
Follow David Sacks on X: https://x.com/DavidSacks
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Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures.
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David Sacks, White House AI and Crypto Czar, joins Marc, Ben, and Erik to explore what's really happening inside the Trump administration's AI and crypto strategy. They expose the regulatory capture playbook being pushed by certain AI companies, explain why open source is America's secret weapon, and detail the infrastructure crisis that could determine who wins the global AI race.
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Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures.
Stay Updated:
Find a16z on YouTube: YouTube
Find a16z on X
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Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures.
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World Liberty Financial (WLF), the Trump-backed DeFi project, launched this Monday.
In this episode, crypto security expert Ogle discusses his role as an advisor to WLF. He dives into why he joined the project, what makes it unique, and how Trump’s involvement could bridge the gap for many who are new to the space.
Plus, Ogle shares his thoughts on the security challenges WLF might face and the project's potential to rival major players in the market.
He also touches on his new L1 blockchain Glue, and why he thinks it will provide a better user experience than what is out in crypto today.
Show highlights:
2:05 Ogle’s background and how he came up with a standard for dealing with crypto hacks
10:28 Where crypto hackers are usually from
13:21 Why he does security work for free
16:57 Why Ogle is advising the Trump family’s DeFi project, World Liberty Financial
22:30 Why some in the crypto community are skeptical of WLF
26:39 His thoughts on how to prevent a crypto hack of a high-profile project
32:52 Why Ogle is not worried about WLF having been forked from the hacked app Dough Finance
33:54 How the Trump family is involved in WLF
41:00 How Donald Trump is excited about the project and actually gets it, according to Ogle
43:49 Why Ogle believes WLF will attract as much traction as the entire market cap of Shiba Inu
47:04 How Ogle's new layer 1 blockchain, Glue, aims to be crypto’s AOL
56:33 Why Glue’s L2s will be specific to certain areas of the industry
1:02:41 When Ogle expects Glue to launch and whether it’ll have a token
1:04:19 How North Korean hackers are now “just so clever, socially”
1:13:56 Ogle’s tips for crypto users
Visit our website for breaking news, analysis, op-eds, articles to learn about crypto, and much more: unchainedcrypto.com
Thank you to our sponsors!
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Mantle
Stellar
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Guest:
Ogle, crypto security expert, founder of Glue, and advisor to World Liberty Financial.
Previous appearance on The Chopping Block: How This DeFi Hack Negotiator Gets Hackers to Return Stolen Money
Links
World Liberty Financial (WLFI)
Unchained: Trump’s New DeFi Project Could Be a Magnet for Hackers
CoinDesk: In Trump-Backed Crypto Project World Liberty Financial (WLFI), Insiders Are Poised for Unusually Big Token Payouts
IBTimes: Donald Trump Announces DeFi Project's Launch Date – What To Know About World Liberty Financial
Latin Times: Who Is Ogle? The Crypto Sleuth Recruited As An Advisor For Trump's DeFi Project
Glue:
Glue, The Web3 Network Built for Regular Users
How Glue Will Keep User Assets Safe
Scams and North Korea:
FBI Fraud report
North Kora Aggressively Targeting Crypto Industry with Well-Disguised Social Engineering Attacks
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In this episode, David Sacks and Evan Owen of Glue join Jason to demo their new “slack killer” product (4:38), explain the role of AI within Glue (14:14), discuss building products with remote vs in-person teams (36:47), and more!
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Timestamps:
(0:00) David Sacks and Evan Owen join Jason to show us newly launched Glue.
(2:42) David Sacks answers, “Why build another product?”.
(4:38) Evan jumps into a demo of Glue.
(9:37) Squarespace - Use offer code TWIST to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain at http://www.Squarespace.com/TWIST
(12:15) Popular data sources users are incorporating into Glue.
(14:14) Digging deeper on the AI of Glue and when it will be able to be proactive in its participation.
(19:42) LinkedIn Jobs - Post your first job for free at https://www.linkedin.com/twist
(21:07) Glue’s strategy on converting users from tools like slack in this competitive landscape.
(27:18) Glue’s approach to pricing.
(30:16) Dot Tech Domains - Don’t miss our “Jam with JCal” contest. To apply and get more details go to https://jamwithjcal.tech/
(31:45) Training models and the heated subject of privacy and security.
(34:12) How building a company now, fourteen years after Yammer, has been different for Sacks.
(36:47) Diving into the topic of building products with remote vs in-person teams.
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Check out Glue: https://gluegroups.com/
Glue on X: https://x.com/GlueAI
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Follow David:
X: https://x.com/DavidSacks
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidoliversacks/
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Follow Evan:
X: https://x.com/kainosnoema
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/evanaowen/
*
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X: https://twitter.com/Jason
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasoncalacanis
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Thank you to our partners:
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(30:16) Dot Tech Domains - Don’t miss our “Jam with JCal” contest. To apply and get more details go to https://jamwithjcal.tech/
*
Great 2023 interviews: Steve Huffman, Brian Chesky, Aaron Levie, Sophia Amoruso, Reid Hoffman, Frank Slootman, Billy McFarland
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Check out Jason’s suite of newsletters: https://substack.com/@calacanis
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Welcome to The Chopping Block — where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest news. This week, the gang sits down with Ogle Crypto, a veteran negotiator in crypto hacks, to discuss the recent KyberSwap exploit, which involved an almost $50 million loss across various chains.
Ogle shares how he initially became a negotiator, including his first case in which he tracked down a group of hackers from Hong Kong when they fled to Great Britain after stealing $24 million in funds. Ogle also shares his negotiation tactics, the typical profile of hackers he encounters today and his empathetic approach towards these often young and financially struggling individuals.
Then the group raises concerns around the hype and marketing strategies of Blast, a new Layer 2 on Ethereum offering “native yields” that achieved $620 million of TVL in less than two weeks.
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Pandora, Castbox, Google Podcasts, TuneIn, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.
Show highlights:
How KyberSwap's sophisticated security was breached, resulting in an almost $50 million loss across various blockchain networks.
Why Tarun suspects the behind-the-scenes workings of an organized group, rather than a lone attacker, in the KyberSwap incident.
The evolution of crypto hacks towards more systematic and professional negotiations with hackers.
Ogle's journey into the world of crypto hack negotiations, highlighted by a fascinating case of pinpointing hackers who had fled Hong Kong.
Ogle's strategic approach to negotiating with hackers, balancing empathy and tactical communication.
Profiling the typical hackers in these scenarios, focusing on their youth, origins, and backgrounds.
Ogle's perspective on why he often finds a sense of understanding towards these young, misguided hackers.
Assessing the crypto industry's response to white hat hackers: Are they adequately rewarded for safeguarding the digital frontier?
The curious surge of investments into Blast, Ethereum's new Layer 2 contender, amidst swirling concerns and skepticism.
Robert's take on why the Blast phenomenon could signal a troubling trend, surpassing the chaos of 2017, paralleled by Tarun's analogy to a “decentralized Herbalife.”
Were Blast’s marketing tactics misleading or merely overly optimistic?
Hosts
Haseeb Qureshi, managing partner at Dragonfly
Robert Leshner, founder of Compound
Tom Schmidt, general partner at Dragonfly
Tarun Chitra, managing partner at Robot Ventures
Disclosures
Guest
Ogle Crypto, Crypto sleuth and negotiator
Links
Hacks
Unchained: $48 Million Drained from KyberSwap in Hack
Kyberswap’s hacker latest message
HackerNoon: Mark Cuban's Bane: How Iron Finance's $TITAN Crypto Crashed From $60 to $0
Cointelegraph: KyberSwap hacker offers $4.6M bounty for return of $46M loot
Blast
Unchained: Blast Surges to $300M TVL, Rapidly Gaining on Top Ethereum L2s Amid Concerns
DefiLlama: Blast TVL
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Today’s show:
Sunny Madra and David Sacks join Jason to break down all the chaos of the past few days at OpenAI including why the situation is so unprecedented (17:46), the board’s failure (30:18), the impact on startups (43:34), and much more!
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Time stamps:
(0:00) Recapping the chaotic past few days at OpenAI plus some immediate impacts from the fallout
(16:43) NetSuite - Download your free KPI Checklist at http://netsuite.com/twist
(17:46) David Sacks joins the show and explains why this situation is so unprecedented in Silicon Valley
(28:51) LinkedIn Marketing - Get a $100 LinkedIn ad credit at https://linkedin.com/thisweekinstartups
(30:18) How the board could have handled this better, Sam Altman's misaligned incentives packages (or lack thereof)
(37:14) Silicon Valley's battle-tested standard structure, and why you shouldn't innovate on corporate structure
(42:20) Brave - Try the Brave Search API at http://brave.com/jason
(43:34) Impact on startups reliant on OpenAI's models, a brutal momentum killer for OpenAI
(50:39) Predictions: Return of the King? Mass Exodus? Something else?
*
Follow Sunny: https://twitter.com/sundeep
Follow Sacks: https://twitter.com/DavidSacks
*
Great 2023 interviews: Steve Huffman, Brian Chesky, Aaron Levie, Sophia Amoruso, Reid Hoffman, Frank Slootman, Billy McFarland
Check out Jason’s suite of newsletters: https://substack.com/@calacanis
*
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*
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Are you curious to learn what the future of SaaS will look like in 2024? Well, look no further. In this informative interview, two of the biggest pioneers of SaaS, David Sacks, Founder and General Partner of Craft Ventures and Jason Lemkin, SaaStr Founder and CEO, team up to discuss the potential landscape for AI-focused SaaS over the next five years. From understanding what it takes to raise a Series A these days to discovering how AI will shape the industry, get a unique insight into the world of SaaS as two leading experts share their predictions and experience. Don't miss your chance to keep ahead of the competition – listen now!
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Today’s show:
SaaSGrid Co-Founders Ethan Ruby and David Sacks join Jason to demo SaaSGrid and break down the solution it provides for founders (3:12). They also cover the software recession (26;18), AI’s impact on SaaS (36:41), and much more!
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Time stamps:
(0:00) David Sacks and Ethan Ruby join Jason
(3:12) The solution SaaSGrid provides for founders
(7:02) Ethan demos SaaSGrid
(9:25) House of Macadamias - Get 20% off and a free box of Namibian Sea Salted Macadamia Nuts at https://houseofmacadamias.com/twist by using code TWIST20
(10:45) Burn multiple and startup efficiency
(16:27) Fixed cost of a SaaS business today and major roadblocks in SaaS
(20:40) Determining target customers and when outbound makes sense
(25:10) Vanta - Get $1000 off your SOC 2 at https://vanta.com/twist
(26:18) Headwinds against SaaS and the software recession
(30:12) The MRR chart and analyzing contraction and churn
(35:13) Fitbod - Get 25% off at https://fitbod.me/twist
(36:41) AI’s impact on SaaS companies
(41:47) The ZIRP/COVID-19 bubble and founders skipping funding rounds
(44:37) The 3 MOST important things for SaaS companies to pay attention to
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Check out SaaSGrid: https://www.saasgrid.com/
FOLLOW Ethan: https://twitter.com/ethanjruby
FOLLOW David: https://twitter.com/DavidSacks
*
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Apply for Funding: https://www.launch.co/apply
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Great recent interviews: Steve Huffman, Brian Chesky, Aaron Levie, Sophia Amoruso, Reid Hoffman, Frank Slootman, Billy McFarland, PrayingForExits, Jenny Lefcourt
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You're the founder of a nicely growing SaaS startup that has just raised a Series A, Series B, or Series C funding round. You need to hire rapidly to seize the opportunity. But how much should you hire, what roles should you hire, and what should the org chart look like when you're done?
David Sacks, co-founder and general partner at Craft will share what works from the 20 unicorns he's invested in, including AirBnB, Bird, ClickUp, Eventbrite, Facebook, Houzz, Lyft, OpenDoor, Palantir, Postmates, Reddit, Slack, SpaceX, Twitter, Uber, and Wish.
Blog post and video: https://www.saastr.com/the-saas-org-chart-by-series-with-david-sacks/
Sponsors:
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My guest today is David Sacks, General Partner at Craft Ventures and founding COO of PayPal. During our conversation, we explore what differentiates Enterprise SaaS from DTC subscriptions, what makes for a magical product launch event, and what key growth metrics David uses to measure success. David has written extensively on his idea of operating cadence, and we explore how that applies to the various functions within an organization. As time goes on, I am more and more impressed at the talent that existed within the original PayPal mafia, and I couldn’t help but ask David to highlight the superpowers for a few of his early partners. This was an incredibly informative conversation with fun threads throughout. Please enjoy my conversation with David Sacks.
For the full show notes, transcript, and links to the best content to learn more, check out the episode page here.
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Show Notes
[00:03:30] - [First question] - Defining what it means when a company can explode
[00:05:39] - What it would look like if a company didn’t have what it takes to explode
[00:06:17] - Key factors that make for a strong product hook
[00:08:51] - Whether or not there has been a divergence at the early stage of B2B investing compared to B2C
[00:11:36] - Reasons why products that make people collaborate are always stronger
[00:14:14] - Nuances between team subscriptions and team product use
[00:15:37] - Describing the burn multiple metric and how it can be applied to companies
[00:18:18] - The gross margin problem and issues for businesses in this area writ large
[00:22:34] - Common practices amongst sales programs that have and haven’t worked
[00:24:22] - What about new founders makes him most excited
[00:25:58] - Explaining cadence and why he groups product and marketing as one bucket and sales and finance as another
[00:30:44] - The anatomy of a great product launch
[00:32:17] - Ways in which external dependencies can be landmines for growing companies
[00:34:06] - Whether or not he’s willingness to invest in a business with regulatory variables
[00:36:59] - What he’s seen in company culture that breaks a company as they scale
[00:39:55] - Things a founder actually does in order to reign in and tame their culture
[00:42:08] - Unique traits of founders who are both investors and operators
[00:44:12] - Peter Thiel’s superpower
[00:44:57] - Max Levchin’s superpower
[00:45:38] - Elon Musk’s superpower
[00:46:07] - Roelof Botha’s superpower
[00:47:15] - Reid Hoffman’s superpower
[00:47:43] - Keith Rabois’ superpower
[00:48:41] - What zones of change in the world have his attention writ large
[00:51:43] - Why teams want to be pushed and how we can apply that to business
[00:55:25] - The kindest thing anyone has ever done for him
Startups can get messy. Especially in growth. David Sacks (Yammer, PayPal) shares how to navigate from 50-500 employees.
This episode is an excerpt from David's session at SaaStr Summit: The New New in Venture.
Full video: https://youtu.be/G0sMviH3G24
Podcast transcript: https://www.saastr.com/saastr-podcast-349-with-craft-ventures-general-partner-david-sacks-how-to-turn-your-saas-startup-into-an-army/
David Sacks is the Co-Founder @ Craft Ventures, one of Silicon Valley's leading early-stage funds with David's portfolio including the likes of Facebook, Tesla, SpaceX, Palantir, Affirm, Airbnb, Slack and Bird to name a few. David started his career in tech as the first product leader and COO @ Paypal, growing payment volume from $0-$500M per month, leading to their $1.5Bn acquisition by eBay. David then founded Geni.com, creating a family tree for the whole world, the company was acquired 3 years later by MyHeritage. David then founded Yammer, the secure solution for internal corporate communication and collaboration, acquired by Microsoft for $1.2Bn. Finally, David then became COO and Interim CEO @ Zenefits before starting Craft.
In Today's Episode You Will Learn:
1.) How David made his way from founding Yammer to creating one of the valley's newest and most prestigious firms in Craft Ventures? Given David's operating success he could have angel invested continuously, why decide to start a fund? What does he ultimately want to achieve with Craft?
2.) How did experiencing the Dot Com Bubble with Paypal and then 2008 impact David's investing and operating mindset? Does David believe VCs really are "open for business" today? How is VC behaviour shifting when comparing early to later stage? How is Craft responding?
3.) Unit Economics: How does David assess unit economics in early-stage opportunities he is looking to invest in? What does proper attribution look like? Where do many go wrong with unit economics? Is it too early to try and assess unit econ at seed? How does David think about having mental plasticity towards unit economics, recognising how they change over time?
4.) Customer Acquisition: Does David agree with Peter Fenton, "there is a complete lack of free and open distribution"? What are the rules of thumb on CAC that David does and then does not agree with? How does David feel about blended CAC? What separates good from great when it comes to CAC/LTV?
5.) Churn: How does assess net negative churn in the businesses he works with? What is great, good, decent and poor? How does avid think about logo vs dollar retention? How does David advise founders who feel COVID has not impacted churn for them? What should they expect?
6.) Burn + Capital Efficiency: How does David analyse burn and capital efficiency today? What does he mean when he discusses "the burn multiple"? How should the burn multiple change with the stage of the business? How does David advise founders on how aggressively to cut burn today?
Items Mentioned In Today's Show:
David's Fave Book: Thucydides' Trap
David's Most Recently Announced Investment: Sourcegraph
As always you can follow Harry and The Twenty Minute VC on Twitter here!
Likewise, you can follow Harry on Instagram here for mojito madness and all things 20VC.
0:01 Jason & Chamath catch us up on their quarantines
1:20 Chamath intros David Sacks
4:40 David explains what their poker group chat has been like since COVID-19 started, and how Jason, Chamath & himself fall on the optimistic/pessimistic spectrum
6:58 How have the past few months defined David's view on the world, and what is his reaction to the US government's response?
12:22 Did the US health apparatus do its job? How could it improve? Why aren't masks already mandated?
19:33 Culture clash between scientific experts & entrepreneurs, thoughts on Chloroquine as a treatment method
27:00 Are US bureaucrats taking the intelligence of US citizens for granted? How liable is Trump?
