What Dan Wang Saw on His Last Trip to China
There's this weird contradiction that hovers almost all conversations regarding the Chinese economy. On the one hand, the growth and rising material prosperity is undeniable. And of course, Chinese industrial giants are at the frontier in all kinds of things, like batteries. On the other hand, you always hear about a soft domestic market, and a general state of unease among workers who fear that precarity is around the corner. So how is this contradiction explained? And how does it affect day-to-day life? On this episode, we bring back one of our regular guests Dan Wang, who recently returned from a long trip to Shanghai. We discuss his observations, the general ennui he saw, the signs of domestic weakness, and the way in which phone culture is reshaping Chinese society.
Read more: It’s Too Soon to Breathe Easy on China’s Economy
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Balaji and Dan Wang: The Engineering State vs Lawyerly State
Balaji Srinivasan speaks with Dan Wang, author of Breakneck, about China's industrial rise, America's competing strengths in software and finance, and what happens when an engineering state and a lawyerly state collide. The conversation covers manufacturing dominance, the future of the dollar, why both superpowers keep making costly mistakes, and where builders fit into what comes next.
Resources:
Follow Dan Wang on X: https://twitter.com/danwwang
Follow Balaji on X: https://twitter.com/balajis
Subscribe to Network State Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@nspodcast
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Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures.
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The Story: What China Tariffs Really Signal
This week, we’re joined by tech analyst and researcher, Dan Wang, to help analyze the evolving relationship between the US and China. In Dan’s new book, Breakneck: China's Quest to Engineer the Future, he introduces a new framework, comparing and contrasting China's “engineering state” to the US’s “lawyerly society”. We also hear Dan’s take on China’s rise as a production superpower, what lessons America can learn from the country and how the current administration's tariff policies (and its ties to tech billionaires like Elon Musk) have shifted the dynamics between these global heavyweights.
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Dan Wang - The US vs China In The 21st Century - [Invest Like the Best, EP.444]
My guest today is Dan Wang. Dan is a technology analyst and author who spent six years living in China studying its manufacturing ecosystem and tech development, best known for his new book Breakneck. Dan offers the most nuanced framework I've encountered for understanding US-China competition. We explore a critical asymmetry: it's far harder for the US to rebuild manufacturing capacity than for China to improve scientific research, with profound implications for AI, national security, and investment returns. For investors, Dan explains the "ByteDance problem"—why exceptional Chinese companies trade at massive discounts due to Communist Party unpredictability and geopolitical risks. He argues China is a "high agency" society that executes relentlessly while America deliberates endlessly, yet also reveals the societal cost. We discuss innovation, state capacity, and investing across both superpowers. Please enjoy my conversation with Dan Wang.
For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page here.
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Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant (https://thepodcastconsultant.com).
Show Notes:
(00:00:00) Welcome to Invest Like the Best
(00:05:55) China's Engineering State and Social Engineering
(00:12:15) US-China Competition: Innovation and Manufacturing
(00:19:41) The Future of US and China: Technological and Economic Perspectives
(00:25:22) Cultural and Work Ethic Comparisons
(00:39:09) Investing in China: Opportunities and Risks
(00:44:43) Future Equilibrium States Between US and China
(00:48:32) China's High Agency and Infrastructure
(00:49:58) Lawyerly Tendencies in US Society
(00:53:41) Comparing US and Chinese Societal Structures
(00:57:59) China's Historical Lessons and Future Prospects
(01:10:39) AI and Technological Competition
(01:15:30) Vertical Integration in Chinese Companies
(01:26:39) The Kindest Thing
Why China Builds Faster Than America & The Rest of the World | Dan Wang
Why does China build so much faster—and what does that reveal about two very different ways of running a society?
Ryan and David sit down with Dan Wang, author of Breakneck: China’s Quest to Engineer the Future, to unpack China’s “engineers-in-charge” model versus America’s “lawyerly” governance.
We cover how this shapes daily life and growth (from subways and high-speed rail to batteries, EVs, and drones), common western misconceptions about China (surveillance, social credit, “imminent collapse”), why U.S. capital markets soar while Chinese manufacturing dominates, what an American “abundance agenda” could look like, and Dan’s closing prescription: the U.S. needs ~20% more engineering; China needs ~50% more rights-protecting legalism.
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TIMESTAMPS
0:00 Intro
0:45 US Lawyers vs China Builders
8:50 Becoming Elite in China vs US
14:55 Motivating Forces
18:26 China’s Misconceptions
24:38 Protests in China
26:00 US vs China Innovation
27:59 Digital Authoritarianism
34:49 Social Credit System?
36:51 Will China Collapse?
42:53 China & Crypto
47:59 China’s Capital Markets
49:46 Path to Wealth
54:29 Property Rights
58:49 Stock Price vs Productivity
1:02:35 The 1960s
1:04:56 Abundance Agenda
1:06:51 US Weakness Relative to China
1:10:53 The Best of Both Worlds
1:13:43 Is China a Security Threat?
1:14:52 US Manufacturing Comeback?
1:20:20 US Global Talent Hub
1:25:07 China’s US Misconceptions
1:27:03 US Success Scenario
1:29:39 Closing & Disclaimers
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RESOURCES
Dan Wang
https://x.com/danwwang
Breakneck: China's Quest to Engineer the Future
https://www.amazon.com/Breakneck-Chinas-Quest-Engineer-Future/dp/1324106034
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Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:
https://www.bankless.com/disclosures
Can the US Beat China’s Engineering State?
From high-speed rail to electric cars to batteries to AI, it’s clear that China can operate with incredible speed at massive scale. Can the US still compete?
We sat down with Dan Wang, a Research Fellow at the Hoover Institution and the author of “Breakneck: China’s Quest to Engineer the Future” to discuss.
Timecodes:
0:00 Introduction
1:36 Lawyers vs. Engineers: Cultural and Economic Differences
4:06 Urban and Rural Life: Comparing Infrastructure
7:20 Barriers to Progress: Regulation and Governance
11:00 Industrial Policy and Public-Private Partnerships
14:20 The Double-Edged Sword of Legal and Engineering Mindsets
16:50 Social Engineering and Policy in China
23:00 Competition, Intellectual Property, and Business Culture
27:10 Manufacturing, Scale, and Global Supply Chains
36:00 Lessons from Japan and Korea
41:30 Complacency, Quality, and the Future of Competition
48:45 Strategic Resources and Industrial Policy
54:00 Foreign Policy: Engineering Diplomacy vs. Alliances
59:00 Taiwan, Demographics, and the Future of US-China Relations
Resources:
Follow Dan on X: https://x.com/danwwang
Read Dan’s blog: https://danwang.co/
Buy Breakneck on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1324106034/
Follow Steven on X:
https://x.com/stevesi
Stay Updated:
Find a16z on YouTube: YouTube
Find a16z on X
Find a16z on LinkedIn
Listen to the a16z Show on Spotify
Listen to the a16z Show on Apple Podcasts
Follow our host: https://twitter.com/eriktorenberg
Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures.
Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Dan Wang on China's Breakneck Economic Growth
In the past couple of years, the world has fully awoken to the incredible economic and technological growth exhibited by China. But what lessons are there for America? Are there even lessons for America? Dan Wang, research fellow at Stanford University's Hoover History Lab, has probably been one of the foremost commentators and observers on China's rise, having taken seriously their efforts to push the technological frontiers for years now. Now, he's out with a new book BREAKNECK: China's Quest to Engineer the Future. On this episode, we talk about what he's seen in the country, whether China is legitimately on the road to socialism, and how perceptions of the country have changed since he started doing his research.
Read more:
Samsung, SK Hynix Lose US Waivers on Chip Gear for China Plants
China Warns Against Excess Competition in Booming AI Race
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How China Might Actually Handle a US Trade War
By now, everyone recognizes that the US and China are in the middle of a trade war, with the Trump administration having imposed tariffs of as much as 125% on Chinese goods. For an export-focused economy like China's, that's a big deal. At the same time, China is pretty much the only major country that's chosen to retaliate against the US with its own set of fresh trade restrictions. So why did it decide to reciprocate? And what's its negotiating position as the US and China head into initial talks? Can the Chinese economy -- and its policymakers -- withstand the pain of a trade war? We speak to Arthur Kroeber, head of research at Gavekal Dragonomics and a long-time China watcher, about how China might actually respond to the new tariff regime.
Read more:
Xi Fortifies China’s Economy Before First Talks on Trade With US
What Years of Practice Tariffs Have Done
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This Is How We'll Know If the CHIPS Act Is Working
The US government is spending billions of dollars to build out state-of-the-art domestic semiconductor manufacturing capacity. But spending money is no guarantee of success. In fact, there are already worries that the CHIPS Act passed by the Biden administration isn't succeeding, due to various roadblocks, speedbumps and unforced errors. So what are the odds that it will pay off? And what should we be watching for as evidence of its efficacy? On this episode of the podcast, we spoke with Dan Wang, technology analyst at Gavekal Dragonomics and Adam Ozimek, chief economist at the Economic Innovation Group. This episode was recorded live at Decades, Adam's bowling alley in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, during the #EconTwitterIRL event in April.
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Dan Wang On the Extraordinary Moment for China's Party Congress
The Chinese government's biggest political gathering comes at a time of numerous challenges.Next week will see a major gathering of China's top officials known as the National Congress of the Chinese Communist Party. This event only happens twice every decade, and this particular Congress is happening at an extraordinary time for both the Chinese government and the country. Not only are officials grappling with the impact of strict pandemic-related restrictions known as Covid Zero, but they're also facing turmoil in the economy and the real estate sector. At the same time, external pressures are picking up, with the US recently imposing sweeping curbs on the way semiconductor companies do business with China. So what's on the agenda for this major political event and what can it tell us about the future direction of the Chinese economy? Dan Wang, China technology analyst at Gavekal Dragonomics, joins us to discuss.
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Dan Wang Explains What China's Tech Crackdown Is Really All About
Over the last several months, Chinese authorities have undertaken a sweeping campaign of change. We've seen crackdowns on big tech and fintech companies (like Ant Financial and Didi), online education companies, and now even the playing of video games. Investors in key sectors have gotten clobbered by the new rules. So what is the goal and what is the endgame here? On this episode, we speak to Dan Wang, a China tech analyst at Gavekal Dragonomics, who breaks it all down.
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Dan Wang on China's Mission to Be a World Leader in Semiconductors
We've been talking a lot on the podcast about semiconductors. The stumble of Intel. The general troubles with US manufacturing, and, of course, the rise of TSMC. But, for a long time, the Chinese government has endeavored to build a successful homegrown and world-leading chip industry. On this episode, we speak with Dan Wang, a tech analyst at Gavekal Dragonomics. He discusses the state of the domestic industry, as well as broader lessons on Chinese tech and business after a year of extraordinary disruption.
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This Is What The Coronavirus Means For The Chinese Supply Chain
Apple's recent revenue warning reminded the world of how exposed the company is to China, and in particular its factories. As the coronavirus continues to shutter huge swaths of the Chinese economy, this is a potential risk for numerous companies beyond just Apple. On this week's Odd Lots podcast, we speak with Dan Wang, a China tech industry analyst at Gavekal Dragonomics about how this, along with pressure on Huawei, are putting extraordinary pressure on the Chinese supply chain.
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Why President Trump's Move Against Huawei Is Such A Big Deal
Earlier this month, President Trump escalated the trade tensions against China by limiting exports of U.S. technology to Huawei. But what is Huawei, and why is this such a big deal? On this week's episode, we speak to Dan Wang, a technology analyst at Gavekal Dragonomics, about the importance of Huawei to the Chinese tech industry, the specifics of what Trump just did, and the far-reaching fallout that we could see from this new phase of the trade war.
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This Is China's Plan To Be A Technology Powerhouse By The Year 2025
The recent trade tensions between the Trump administration and China has shone a light on the country's ambitions to become a technology powerhouse, as one of the complaints is that China unfairly extracts intellectual property from multinationals entering that market. But what, specifically, is China's long-term plan? On this week's Odd Lots podcast, we speak to Dan Wang, a technology analyst at Gavekal Dragonomics about the the Made In China 2025 initiative, which seeks to turn the country into a tech leader (in areas like semiconductors, medical equipment, clean energy, and wide-body aircraft) by the year 2025. Dan explains how the program works, where it's succeeding, where it's struggling, and what the ramifications are for the rest of the world.
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