# The **epic** story of Markdown
Markdown is a system for writing that makes it readable to both humans and computers. It's all about the symbols. You use - to make a list, * for emphasis, ** for even more emphasis. Brackets and parentheses turn into links. Once you know Markdown, you might begin to think in Markdown. Right now it is absolutely everywhere: people are maintaining their Claude.MD files for conversing with AI bots, and writing their notes in Markdown editors like Obsidian. So where did Markdown come from? It came from John Gruber. John joins the show, along with Anil Dash, to tell the story of where Markdown came from and how it took over the world.
Further reading:
The Markdown spec
How Markdown took over the world
Gruber on Apple Notes Markdown support
9to5mac: iOS 26 to bring new features for Messages, CarPlay, and more
Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters and our ad-free podcast feed.
We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
AirPods, Touch Bars, and the rest of Tim Cook's legacy
Now that we've had a few days to digest the Apple CEO succession news, Nilay and David get some help from Daring Fireball's John Gruber to discuss Tim Cook's legacy, the potential for change under John Ternus, and whether the Touch Bar actually could have been great. Then, Nilay and David react to some breaking news: Microsoft is going back to the Xbox. And everything is an Xbox now. Finally, in the lightning round, we have a round of Brendan Carr is a Dummy, a very 2026 new microphone, a BMW we can't figure out, and Meta's new AI training tool: its employees.
We’re also on video! Check us out on YouTube.
Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters and our ad-free podcast feed.
We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11.
Further reading:
Behold the cursed 2027 BMW 7 Series interior (via Car and Driver)
Tim Cook’s departure is the start of a new era at Apple
Read Tim Cook’s letter to the Apple world as he departs as CEO
Wearable health tech might be Tim Cook’s greatest legacy
Who is Apple’s new CEO John Ternus?
Tim Cook: “I am healthy. My energy is high, and I plan to be in this new role for a long time.”
Xbox Game Pass Ultimate gets a price cut but loses new Call of Duty games
Microsoft says the ‘idea’ of an Xbox mobile store ‘is not dead’
Call of Duty never made much sense for Xbox Game Pass
We found Microsoft’s amicus brief about the Xbox mobile game store.
Variety: Trump’s FCC Wants Input on Whether ‘Transgender and Gender Nonbinary’ TV Programming Is ‘Appropriate’ for Children
Anthropic’s most dangerous AI model just fell into the wrong hands
Insta360 is putting screens on its next wireless mics to show logos or images
Now Meta will track what employees do on their computers to train its AI agents
--EPISODE RUNDOWN--
(Timestamps are approximate.)
00:01:00 Tim Cook to step down as Apple CEO
00:50:00 Xbox rebrand
01:06:00 Brendan Carr is a Dummy
01:08:00 FCC targets "transgender and gender nonbinary" kids' TV
01:13:00 Mythos
01:21:00 BMW 7-Series' confusing interior
01:27:00 Insta360 mic with screen
01:30:00 Meta tracks employees
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
169: John Gruber – State of the Workflow
Myke interviews John Gruber of Daring Fireball. They take a deep-dive into how John’s writing takes shape – from capturing ideas and drafting articles to the meticulous editing behind his influential work.
This episode of Cortex is sponsored by:
Squarespace: Save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code CORTEX.
Fitbod: Get stronger, faster with a fitness plan that fits you. Get 25% off your membership.
Sentry: Mobile crash reporting and app monitoring. Get 6 months of the Team plan free with code cortex.
Guest Starring:
John Gruber
Links and Show Notes:
Get Moretex – More Cortex, with no ads.
Submit Feedback
Daring Fireball
Daring Fireball: The M4 iPad Pros
MacBook Pro - Apple
Studio Display - Apple
Daring Fireball: Something Is Rotten in the State of Cupertino
Getting Things Done - Wikipedia
Field Notes
Tot
Markdown - Wikipedia
Daring Fireball: Introducing Markdown
Daring Fireball: Markdown
The Enthusiast – Myke's New Blog
This is how Apple rolls – John Gruber – Macworld
The Talk Show
Dithering
Sandwich
Daring Fireball: WWDC 2007 Keynote News
Daring Fireball: Dive Into Markdown
Daring Fireball: Internal Letter Circulates at Apple -- and Leaks to The Verge -- Pushing Back Against Returning to the Office
Apple Extended Keyboard - Wikipedia
tinkerBOY ADB Keyboard/Mouse to USB Converter
ThinkPad Silent Bluetooth Mouse
MarsEdit
BBEdit
John's Home Screen
Daring Fireball: Kotoba: The Best iOS Dictionary App You've Never Heard Of
Sequel
Sofa
Callsheet
Tapestry
NetNewsWire
Ivory
Things
Sidekick Pocket
Did Apple get too big for its own good?
We’re doing something a little different today — I asked my friend John Gruber of Daring Fireball to come on the show and talk about the future of Apple, and, importantly, the App Store. I wanted to talk about the most recent ruling in the Epic v. Apple legal saga.
But I also wanted to talk about the big picture at Apple, and why the company seems to have found itself being hammered on all sides: by the developers that feel it’s become too greedy, by federal court judges that no longer trust it, and by regulators now threatening some of its major cash cows.
Links:
Judge rules, in excoriating decision, that Apple violated 2021 order | Daring Fireball
Steve Jobs’ response on Section 3.3.1 | Tao Effect Blog
Epic submitted Fortnite to Apple | Verge
Eddy Cue is fighting to save Apple’s $20 billion paycheck from Google | Verge
Epic is offering developers an alternative to Apple’s in-app purchases | Verge
Epic says Fortnite is coming back to iOS in the US | Verge
Apple files appeal to wrest back control of its App Store | Verge
‘Cook chose poorly’: how Apple blew up its control over the App Store | Verge
Apple changes App Store rules to allow external purchases | Verge
Existential thoughts about Apple’s reliance on Services revenue | Six Colors
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
554: Level Zero Promise
It's been a quiet week, so John Gruber briefly joins Jason to discuss Apple's AI delay, new Macs, new iPads, and the future of Apple regulation worldwide.
This episode of Upgrade is sponsored by:
Vitally: A new era for customer success productivity. Get a free pair of AirPods Pro when you book a qualified meeting.
Google Gemini: Supercharge your creativity and productivity.
Turbulence Forecast: Find out how turbulent will your flight be with tailored and handcrafted forecasts. Download now.
Oracle: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure is a single platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI needs.
Guest Starring:
John Gruber
Links and Show Notes:
Get Upgrade+. More content, no ads.
Submit Feedback
Apple has 90 days to allow app sideloading in Brazil | The Verge
Zero one infinity rule - Wikipedia
The App Store era must end, and the Mac is the model – Six Colors
Daring Fireball: Apple Is Delaying the ‘More Personalized Siri’ Apple Intelligence Features
Apple delays some anticipated Apple Intelligence features – Six Colors
Apple Is Delaying the ‘More Personalized Siri’ Apple Intelligence Features
Daring Fireball: Simon Willison on the Privacy/Security Risks of Personalized Siri, vis-à-vis Prompt Injection
Sky (blue)’s the limit: M4 MacBook Air offers lower price, improved camera, and new color – Six Colors
New Mac Studio spans the generations with M4 Max, M3 Ultra chips – Six Colors
Apple updates iPad Air and iPad, revamps Magic Keyboard for iPad Air – Six Colors
The James Bond Cinematic Universe
On this episode, we're diving deep into new ideas about old things. First, Framework CEO Nirav Patel joins David and The Verge's Sean Hollister to talk about Framework's new Laptop 12 and Desktop, plus the company's plan to bring its upgradeable, repairable ethos to other gadgets. After that, Daring Fireball's John Gruber joins the show to talk about the future of James Bond, now that Amazon has complete creative control over the 007 franchise. Do we want to live in the James Bond Cinematic Universe? Finally, we answer a question on the Vergecast Hotline about using smart glasses to replace your computer monitor.
Further reading:
Framework wants to fix the budget laptop with its first touchscreen machine
Mint and pink: a closer look at the backflipping Framework Laptop 12
Framework’s first tiny Desktop beautifully straddles the line between cute and badass
Framework Desktop hands-on: a possible new direction for gaming desktops
‘We’re nowhere near done with Framework Laptop 16’ says Framework CEO
Amazon now has creative control over the James Bond franchise
Amazon buys MGM for $8.45 billion
From David Smith: The Talk Show Bond Anthology
From Daring Fireball: Amazon MGM Studios Takes Creative Control Over James Bond Franchise
Xreal’s new glasses are a surprisingly good TV for your face
The smart glasses era is here — I got a first look
Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Apple Mega-Episode W/ Daring Fireball's John Gruber: AI, Vision Pro, China, App Store & More
John Gruber is the author of Daring Fireball. He joins Big Technology Podcast for a mega episode on the state of Apple. We cover: 1) The company's vibe amid revenue declines 2) The impact of its services business 3) Its position in China 4) How AI might change the user interface of computing 5) Can Apple keep up with the changes if we move beyond the screen 6) Gruber's reaction to the Vision Pro 7) The stakes of Apple's Vision Pro bet 8) Apple conflict with Meta and who is getting the best of it 9) Is Apple too attached to its App Store fees 10) Who might succeed Tim Cook?
This is the longest episode in Big Technology Podcast history. But also a masterclass from Gruber on the state of a company he's covered for two decades. Enjoy!
---
Enjoying Big Technology Podcast? Please rate us five stars ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ in your podcast app of choice.
For weekly updates on the show, sign up for the pod newsletter on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/6901970121829801984/
Questions? Feedback? Write to: bigtechnologypodcast@gmail.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
496: 40th Anniversary of the Mac Draft
Celebrating 40 years of the Mac, we've gathered an all-star panel of longtime Mac users to pick the best Macs, Mac software, and Mac accessories, as well as induct a few events or devices into the Mac Hall of Shame.
This episode of Upgrade is sponsored by:
Vitally: A new era for customer success productivity. Get a free pair of AirPods Pro when you book a qualified meeting.
DeleteMe: Remove your personal info from data brokers. Get 20% off your plan when you use this link and code UPGRADE20.
Squarespace: Save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code UPGRADE.
Guest Starring:
Dan Moren, John Gruber, John Siracusa, Shelly Brisbin, and Stephen Hackett
Links and Show Notes:
Get Upgrade+. More content, no ads.
Submit Feedback
Mac (computer) - Wikipedia
20 Macs for 2020 - Relay FM
The best Mac ever | Macworld
The iMac G3 Project – 512 Pixels
How the iMac saved Apple - The Verge
BBEdit
FileMaker - Wikipedia
tinkerBOY
'The Green Button'
A Tour of Apple’s External (LCD) Displays – 512 Pixels
PowerBook 5300, a Compromised Mac | Low End Mac
Some of Apple’s lemons – 512 Pixels
20 Macs for 2020: #17 – PowerBook 500 & 5300 – Six Colors
The Macintosh TV was a cul de sac off the road to converged video | Ars Technica
20 Macs for 2020 #9: Twentieth Anniversary Macintosh (#12) - Relay FM
(Bonus) John Gruber Talks Apple And AI
John Gruber joins Chris and I to talk about AI Hardware, Apple's AI strategy and Apple's Vision Pro launch.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
435: OS 8, Not So Great
John Gruber joins Jason on Upgrade for the first time. Topics include eWorld, Apple's iPhone production problems in China, FIFA and Qatar and the World Cup, the reasons behind Apple's sports ambitions, BBEdit, regular expressions, Perl and Python, MarsEdit, nanotexture displays, webcams, and the state of the art in ADB-to-USB adapters. Happy Cyber Monday to all those who celebrate!
This episode of Upgrade is sponsored by:
Zocdoc: Find the right doctor, right now with Zocdoc. Sign up for free.
Trade: The perfect gift for loved ones. Get $30 off a subscription.
ExpressVPN: High-Speed, Secure & Anonymous VPN Service. Get an extra three months free.
Guest Starring:
John Gruber
Links and Show Notes:
Get Upgrade+. More content, no ads.
The Ninth Annual Upgradies
Apple to Lose 6 Million iPhone Pros From Tumult at China's Foxconn Plant (AAPL) - Bloomberg
Mass resignations of iPhone workers; report of 30% production hit
Foxconn unrest risks iPhone shipments, weighs on Apple shares | Reuters
England, Other Teams Drop Plans to Wear Antidiscrimination Armbands at Qatar World Cup - WSJ
Qatar 2022: The World Cup That Changed Everything - The New York Times
On Eve of World Cup, FIFA President Gianni Infantino Defends Qatar - The New York Times
Kafala system - Wikipedia
Qatar World Cup: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO) - YouTube
An Unexpected Detention by World Cup Security
USMNT World Cup Daily, Day 2 - Fútbol with Grant Wahl
No, Apple Isn't Planning to Buy Manchester United - MacRumors
Cord Cutting Diary: Fubo TV – Six Colors
BBEdit: A text utility, not just a text editor – Six Colors
Dr. Drang's blog, And now it’s all this
Jeffrey Friedl's Blog » Source of the famous “Now you have two problems” quote
Bare Bones Software | BBEdit User Manual
Jeffrey Friedl's Mastering Regular Expressions
tinkerBOY ADB Keyboard/Mouse to USB Converter with QMK Firmware and Via support - tinkerBOY
Josh Centers: So Long and Thanks for All the Fish - TidBITS
ThinkPad USB-C Wireless Compact Mouse | Lenovo US
John Gruber and Nilay Patel compare their iPhone 11 reviews
John Gruber of Daring Fireball joins Verge editor-in-chief Nilay Patel for the annual iPhone review week to compare notes on Apple's new iPhone 11 and 11 Pro.
John and Nilay also get into their approach for reviewing tech products in 2019.
We are conducting an audience survey to better serve you. It takes no more than five minutes, and it really helps out the show. Please take our survey here: www.voxmedia.com/podsurvey.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
466: John Gruber Returns
John Gruber of Daring Fireball and The Talk Show join David and Stephen for a discussion about writing and podcasting, as well as WWDC and what the future may hold for the iPad and Mac.
This episode of Mac Power Users is sponsored by:
Gazelle: Sell your iPhone for cash at Gazelle!
TextExpander from Smile: Get 20% off with this link and type more with less effort! Expand short abbreviations into longer bits of text, even fill-ins, with TextExpander from Smile.
Luna Display: The only hardware solution that turns your iPad into a wireless display for your Mac. Use promo code POWER at checkout for 10% off.
eero: Never think about WiFi again. Get $100 off the ‘Eero base unit and 2 beacons package’, and a year of eero Plus.
Guest Starring:
John Gruber
Links and Show Notes:
Support Mac Power Users with a Relay Membership
Submit Feedback
MPU Live: Chicago
Mac Power Users #264: Workflows with John Gruber - Relay FM
John Gruber (@gruber) | Twitter
Daring Fireball
Daring Fireball: Dive Into Markdown
Daring Fireball: Markdown
Timex Sinclair - Wikipedia
Gopher (protocol) - Wikipedia
MarsEdit 4 - Powerful web publishing from your Mac.
Bare Bones Software | BBEdit 12
Daring Fireball: Samsung and Apple, Sitting in a Tree, K‑I‑S‑S‑I‑N‑G
Daring Fireball: The Talk Show
Un-conventional: How WWDC became the heart of the Apple world's calendar | iMore
Layers
AltConf
How to use the Magnifier on iPhone and iPad | iMore
Daring Fireball: Codea’s iOS Menu Bar
Coda for iOS
The Switch to Intel | iMore
The 12-inch PowerBook G4 - YouTube
264: Workflows with John Gruber
Katie and David sit down with John Gruber of Daring Fireball to discuss the origins of his site, how he finds and publishes the news and how he uses his Mac and iOS.
Thanks to MPU listener Jigar Talati for help with the shownotes this week!
This episode of Mac Power Users is sponsored by:
Our Exclusive Sponsor for this Episode:
• 1Password Have you ever forgotten a password? Now you don't have to worry about that anymore.
Guest Starring:
John Gruber
Links and Show Notes:
Support Mac Power Users with a Relay FM Membership
Daring Fireball
John Gruber (@gruber) | Twitter
Daring Fireball: The Talk Show
Daring Fireball Linked List: Philly's Best Cocktail
Daring Fireball: Independent Days
MovableType.org
Bare Bones Software | BBEdit 11
Pong - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Pong (marketed as PONG) is one of the earliest arcade video games and the very first sports arcade video game.
Apple II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
kottke.org - home of fine hypertext products
Dave Winer
Texas Instruments TI-99/4A - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Texas Instruments TI-99/4A was an early home computer, released in June 1981, originally at a price of US$525.
Atari 2600 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Atari 2600 is a home video game console released in September 1977 by Atari, Inc.
QuarkXPress - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
QuarkXPress is a computer application for creating and editing complex page layouts in a WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get) environment.
Gopher (protocol) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Gopher protocol is a TCP/IP application layer protocol designed for distributing, searching, and retrieving documents over the Internet.
Myriad (typeface) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Myriad is a humanist sans-serif typeface designed by Robert Slimbach and Carol Twombly for Adobe Systems.
Movable Type - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Medium
MarsEdit 3 - Desktop blog editing for the Mac.
Stratechery by Ben Thompson - On the business, strategy, and impact of technology.
John Gruber, Daring Fireball - XOXO Festival (2014) - YouTube
For the last 12 years, John Gruber’s tracked the modern era of Apple on Daring Fireball, his personal web site turned full-time job. Bootstrapped with reader contributions and shirt sales, John’s thoughtful approach to sponsorship allowed him to remain fiercely independent, while working on projects like Markdown, The Talk Show, and Vesper, his minimalist note-taking app.
Daring Fireball: Markdown
Textile (markup language) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Textile is a lightweight markup language originally developed by Dean Allen for use in the Textpattern CMS and billed as a "humane web text generator".
Mac Power Users 131: Markdown Revisited | Mac Power Users
Markdown: A MacSparky Field Guide
Aaron Swartz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Boing Boing
ios - Swift 1.2 Documentation Changes (Markdown Support) - Stack Overflow
The Talk Show ✪: Ep. 119, With Guest David Sparks
Special guest David Sparks joins the show for the first time. Topics include “power users”, Markdown, Apple Watch, the new MacBook, iCloud Photo Syncing and the new Photos for Mac, WWDC, and wearing slippers as “work” shoes.
Field Notes — “I’m not writing it down to remember it later, I’m writing it down to remember it now.”
Monaco (typeface) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Monaco is a monospaced sans-serif typeface designed by Susan Kare and Kris Holmes. It ships with OS X and was already present with all previous versions of the Mac operating system.
Consolas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Pinboard: social bookmarking for introverts
Mac Power Users #217: iOS Automation with Federico Viticci - Relay FM
Keyboard Maestro 6.4.8: Work Faster with Macros for Mac OS X
LaunchBar 6
TextExpander: Mac Typing Shortcut Utility Saves You Time
Tweetbot for Mac
Bjango
Panic - Transmit - The ultimate Mac OS X FTP + SFTP + S3 app
FastScripts
Paste URL From Safari Tabs (Gruber's Script)
Drafts | Agile Tortoise
The Talk Show ✪: Ep. 123, Live From WWDC 2015 With Phil Schiller
One of Us — MacSparky
Phil Schiller's Tweet to MacSparky | Twitter
