Sebastian Mallaby

What drives a man to turn down half a million pounds at 18, test Mark Zuckerberg's sincerity over dinner, and wonder aloud if he can win a second Nobel Prize? For Demis Hassabis, co-founder and CEO of Google DeepMind, the answer is a lifelong pursuit of artificial general intelligence — and an unshakeable belief that the technology he's creating will change everything about what it means to be human. Oz speaks with journalist and author Sebastian Mallaby about his new book, The Infinity Machine: Demis Hassabis, DeepMind, and the Quest for Superintelligence, tracing Demis's extraordinary journey from chess prodigy to the man at the center of the most consequential technological race of our time. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sebastian Mallaby

Author

Council on Foreign Relations

Sebastian Mallaby (@scmallaby) is the Paul A. Volcker senior fellow for international economics at the Council on Foreign Relations, a two-time Pulitzer Prize finalist, and the author of six books, including More Money Than God, The Power Law, The Man Who Knew, and The World's Banker. His latest book is The Infinity Machine: Demis Hassabis, DeepMind, and the Quest for Superintelligence. This episode is brought to you by: Eight Sleep Pod Cover 5 sleeping solution for dynamic cooling and heating: EightSleep.com/Tim AG1 Pro all-in-one nutritional supplement: DrinkAG1.com/Tim Wealthfront high-yield cash account: Wealthfront.com/Tim Wealthfront disclaimer: New clients get 3.30% base APY from program banks + additional 0.75% boost for 3 months on your uninvested cash (max $150k balance). Terms and conditions apply. The Cash Account offered by Wealthfront Brokerage LLC (“WFB”) member FINRA/SIPC, not a bank. The base APY as of 1/30/26 is representative, can change, and requires no minimum. Tim Ferriss, a non-client, receives compensation from WFB for advertising and holds a non-controlling equity interest in the corporate parent of WFB, which creates a conflict of interest. Individual experiences and outcomes will differ. Instant withdrawals may be limited by your receiving firm and other factors. Investment advisory services provided by Wealthfront Advisers LLC, an SEC-registered investment adviser. Securities investments: not bank deposits, not bank-guaranteed or FDIC-insured, and may lose value. * Timestamps [00:00:00] Start. [00:02:11] The twinkly eyed polymath who became Sebastian's next book. [00:06:55] Picking the next book project the way a great VC picks a startup. [00:09:41] Why God keeps crashing the superintelligence party. [00:11:13] Shane Legg's grainy 2009 prophecy — and the nervous giggle. [00:13:11] Ilya Sutskever burns an effigy. [00:13:54] Demis at 4 a.m., hunting God's algorithm. [00:18:43] Super-abundance, Mad Max, and the China shock lesson. [00:22:39] The kitchen debate with Geoff Hinton that flipped Sebastian. [00:24:06] Why a zero-percent chance of doom is indefensible. [00:24:52] Will Washington seize the labs? The Mythos wake-up call. [00:27:18] Anthropic's bull case, bear case, and a dead parent's letter. [00:33:24] Where Sebastian and Benedict Evans part ways. [00:38:16] Is the SaaS apocalypse overdone? One word: Palantir. [00:39:53] The AI friend you'll never switch. [00:41:56] Does Google win consumer AI by default? [00:44:45] Four cities, eight days: China actually talks safety. [00:47:28] A Cold War non-proliferation playbook for AI. [00:49:45] Did the chip export controls actually work? [00:51:49] Burned doves: why Washington swears China won't talk. [00:54:56] "By 2028, the race is over" — one lab boss' bet. [00:59:11] Inside Hikvision: toddlers, sensors, and US sanctions. [01:01:07] Bill Gurley's Uber bet: venture capital perfected. [01:05:18] Luke Nosek bear-hugs DeepMind into existence. [01:10:52] Thiel's heresy: never invest by committee. [01:11:59] How Founders Fund nearly fumbled the deal of the century. [01:14:30] Selling to Google for $650M: a secret British heist? [01:16:41] The Traitorous Eight, gardening leave, and the UK's to-do list. [01:20:55] Ender's Game: "That's really how I see myself." [01:23:42] Too dumb for Gödel, Escher, Bach? Maybe an LLM can help. [01:25:19] If not Demis or Sam, then Dario. [01:26:04] My royalties cliff — and what dropped in late 2022. [01:27:47] Lila Sciences and the labs that run themselves. [01:31:13] Sebastian's billboard: "Prepare your mind." [01:35:14] The one thing Sebastian will never outsource to AI. [01:40:09] Parting thoughts. For show notes and past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show, please visit tim.blog/podcast. For deals from sponsors of The Tim Ferriss Show, please visit tim.blog/podcast-sponsors Sign up for Tim’s email newsletter (5-Bullet Friday) at tim.blog/friday. For transcripts of episodes, go to tim.blog/transcripts. Discover Tim’s books: tim.blog/books. Follow Tim: Twitter: twitter.com/tferriss Instagram: instagram.com/timferriss YouTube: youtube.com/timferriss Facebook: facebook.com/timferriss LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/timferriss See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Sebastian Mallaby

Author

Council on Foreign Relations

Kara speaks with journalist and author Sebastian Mallaby about his new book, "The Infinity Machine," and its central figure: Demis Hassabis, the CEO and co-founder of Google's AI research lab, DeepMind, and a Nobel Prize winner in chemistry.   Sebastian argues that Hassabis is one of the original scientist-entrepreneurs of modern AI. And although he's extremely competitive and research-driven, Sebastian says Hassabis is also one of the few big names in AI development who genuinely cares about public safety. However, despite his best intentions, Hassabis doesn’t have the power to change the race dynamic driving AI’s rapid, and potentially unsafe, development. Kara and Sebastian break down DeepMind's relationship with Google, the push toward artificial general intelligence, and whether the government can regulate the technology before something goes wrong.  Questions? Comments? Email us at on@voxmedia.com or find us on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, Threads, and Bluesky @onwithkaraswisher. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sebastian Mallaby

Author

Council on Foreign Relations

What drives a man to turn down half a million pounds at 18, test Mark Zuckerberg's sincerity over dinner, and wonder aloud if he can win a second Nobel Prize? For Demis Hassabis, co-founder and CEO of Google DeepMind, the answer is a lifelong pursuit of artificial general intelligence — and an unshakeable belief that the technology he's creating will change everything about what it means to be human. Oz speaks with journalist and author Sebastian Mallaby about his new book, The Infinity Machine: Demis Hassabis, DeepMind, and the Quest for Superintelligence, tracing Demis's extraordinary journey from chess prodigy to the man at the center of the most consequential technological race of our time. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sebastian Mallaby

Author

Council on Foreign Relations

Huge interview today. "Power Law" author Sebastian Mallaby joins the show to break down some of the most important moments in VC history and his lessons from writing the book, including: the youth revolt (14:18), KP vs Sequoia (27:02), what makes a legendary VC (38:40), and more! (0:00) Jason tees up today's interview with "Power Law" author Sebastian Mallaby (1:42) Sebastian explains how and why he wrote a book on the history of VC (13:13) Vanta - Get $1000 off your SOC 2 at https://vanta.com/twist (14:18) The virtuous cycle of luck early in a VC career, youth revolt in startups, Zuckerberg spurning Sequoia (26:02) Embroker - Use code TWIST to get an extra 10% off insurance at https://Embroker.com/twist (27:02) Tom Perkins and the Kleiner Perkins rise and fall vs Sequoia's sustained dominance, KP's Genentech investment (37:18) Harmonic - Get $4000 off at https://harmonic.ai/twist (38:40) What characteristics make a legendary VC? (56:29) Why are institutional LPs allocating more capital to VC, what happened with China's interest in the industry? Other investable industries other than software FOLLOW Sebastian: https://twitter.com/scmallaby FOLLOW Jason: https://linktr.ee/calacanis FOLLOW Molly: https://twitter.com/mollywood BUY "Power Law": https://www.amazon.com/Power-Law-Venture-Capital-Making/dp/B094PSKDZV

Sebastian Mallaby

Author

Council on Foreign Relations

One could argue that "expert" has become a bad word. People routinely roll their eyes at the advice of experts and sometimes mock them. Perhaps nowhere is this more clear than the Federal Reserve. In the 90s, Alan Greenspan was lauded as the author of the great economy. Today, the Fed is a political punching back. On this week's Odd Lots podcast, Joe Weisenthal and Tracy Alloway talk to Sebastian Mallaby about Greenspan, experts and the huge changes at the Fed in the last couple of decades. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sebastian Mallaby

Author

Council on Foreign Relations