E34: The Consumer Rights Revolution with Joshua Browder of DoNotPay
In this episode, Nathan sits down with Joshua Browder of DoNotPay, the world’s first robot lawyer. They chat about the current state of AI use in law, what policymakers should consider in regulating AI, and the ethics of robo-lawyers for consumer use.
We're hiring across the board at Turpentine and for Erik's personal team on other projects he's incubating. He's hiring a Chief of Staff, EA, Head of Special Projects, Investment Associate, and more. For a list of JDs, check out: eriktorenberg.com.
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TIMESTAMPS:
(00:00) Episode Preview
(03:22) Joshua Browder and the story of DoNotPay
(04:50) The value incurred through an AI lawyer
(07:17) What are the legal and financial injustices that motivates Joshua’s work?
(12:46) How does the AI negotiate with a Comcast chat agent?
(16:28) Consumer security
(17:12) Sponsor: Omneky
(21:08) The ethics of DoNotPay
(22:27) Should AI need to disclose that it’s AI?
(24:47) How much human intervention is necessary in AI tooling?
(27:15) Where does the burden of proof lie for AI regulation and ethics?
(31:47) Advice to policymakers
(35:45) AI Liability
(38:05) AI Arms Race
(43:46) Productive bot interactions
(45:00) AI-powered arbitration
(49:28) How the consumer experience might change two years from now
(51:45) AI Superapps
(55:25) Moats in AI
(57:11) How much money does DoNotPay save people today?
(59:30) Consumer and enterprise timelines given AI
(01:06:30) What will AI replace?
(01:09:34) Impact of AI in different industries
(01:11:10) The legal field’s view of AI
(01:15:50) Deflationary factors in running DoNotPay
(01:25:00) What are non-obvious ways to save money?
(01:27:55) Joshua’s favorite AI tools
(01:28:17) Would Joshua get a Neuralink implant?
LINKS:
https://donotpay.com/
TWITTER:
@jbrowder1 (Joshua)
@DoNotPay (DoNotPay)
@CogRev_Podcast
@labenz (Nathan)
@eriktorenberg (Erik)
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NEWSLETTER:
More show notes and reading material released in our Substack: https://cognitiverevolution.substack.com
How worried—or excited—should we be about AI? Recode Media with Peter Kafka
AI is amazing… or terrifying, depending on who you ask. This is a technology that elicits strong, almost existential reactions. So, as a Memorial Day special, we're running an episode of Recode Media with Peter Kafka that digs into the giant ambitions and enormous concerns people have about the very same tech.
First up: Joshua Browder (@jbrowder1), a Stanford computer science dropout who tried to get an AI lawyer into court.
Then: Microsoft's CTO Kevin Scott (@kevin_scott) pitches a bright AI future.
Plus: hype-deflator, cognitive scientist and author Gary Marcus (@GaryMarcus) believes in AI, but he thinks the giants of Silicon Valley are scaling flawed technology now—with potentially dangerous consequences.
Subscribe for free to Recode Media to make sure you get the whole series: https://bit.ly/3IOpWuB
Pivot will return on Friday!
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SaaStr 649: Being a Rebel and Building a Movement: Non-Traditional Approaches to Scale with DoNotPay CEO Joshua Browder
In a crowded and distracted world, it can be hard to break through with customers, the media, recruiting and investors. Capturing the zeitgeist is more important than ever in making you stand out. In this session Josh will share his story building DoNotPay and how building a movement has given his company an advantage and the non-traditional lessons that he has learned.
Video: https://youtu.be/kORBMIxRLs4
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The Robot Lawyer Resistance
What happens when you don’t have the resources to fight for your rights? Whether it’s a major medical bill or a more minor parking ticket… even if you were in the right, is it easier to just… pay?
Well, Joshua Browder's answer is Do Not Pay!
He’s built a thriving company of the same name, that helps consumers “fight corporations, beat bureaucracy, and sue anyone at the press of a button.” Through the power of technology, DoNotPay has resolved over 2m cases successfully and in this interview we get to hear where Browder hopes to take the organization, including his first-hand account of his recent plan to bring the robot lawyer into the physical courtroom.
Topics Covered:
00:00 - Introduction
01:51 - DoNotPay’s origin
03:09 - Surprising laws
05:49 - General counsel for consumers
06:54 - The role of AI and technology
09:26 - Ensuring quality counsel
13:19 - Prioritizing features
14:43 - Corporate pushback
17:11 - Reshaping the legal system
20:28 - Entering the physical courtroom
24:50 - Cross border possibilities
26:14 - Looping humans into modeling
29:01 - Deflationary impacts
30:05 - Recent pushback
33:13 - Is AI already writing law?
35:15 - Why is law so complex?
37:54 - Entering the Supreme Court
38:38 - Lawyer support
39:47 - Looking forward
43:07 - Building horizontal vs vertical
45:28 - Does this law exist?
Resources:
DoNotPay: https://donotpay.com/
Find Josh on Twitter: https://twitter.com/jbrowder1
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Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures.
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The internet’s Robin Hood uses robo-lawyers to fight parking tickets and spam calls
DoNotPay offers more than 250 “automated justice” services in every US state, from suing robo-callers to annulling marriages to fighting eviction. It earned Joshua the title “Robin Hood of the internet.”
DoNotPay leverages AI and ML solutions, including GPT-3, to shape and refine its decision trees.
Read about how DoNotPay is helping crypto traders who’ve lost money file suit against fallen leaders.
Why PDFs are unfit for human (or computer) consumption.
Follow Joshua on Twitter.
Today’s Lifeboat badge goes to user EM-Creations for their answer to the question The PHP header() function is not redirecting.
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
The Hustlers's Guide to Suing the Man
This is the next cycle (Q1 2020) of Hustlin' Tech, a podcast series (from the a16z Podcast) about technology platforms that create opportunities for people. Recorded right before the coronavirus pandemic, these next 3 episodes touch on many things that are top of mind right now: from the profession of nursing and taking care of the elderly and the professionalization of caregivers; to fighting bureaucracy to get money back (and to now get help delaying utility bills and rent payments that are eligible for an extension or waiver of late fees due to the coronavirus crisis).
Episode #6, “The Hustler’s Guide to Suing the Man” features:
Joshua Browder, CEO and founder of DoNotPay, the world's first "robot lawyer" which helps people automatically fight bureaucracy to get money back, whether parking tickets or hidden bank fees; find other hidden money or cancel free trials; sue others or go to small claims court -- and now also helps people delay utility bills and rent payments that are eligible for an extension or waiver of late fees due to the coronavirus crisis.
Makiri Duckett, a small business owner who currently operates an adult on-demand delivery service (and therefore gets frequent parking tickets) and is a power user of the platform;
...both interviewed by Ben Horowitz and Shaka Senghor.
You can find the first cycle of this series (Q4 2019) -- including more about the what and the why -- here.
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Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures.
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