How AI is changing software engineering at Shopify with Farhan Thawar
Supported by Our Partners
• WorkOS — The modern identity platform for B2B SaaS.
• Statsig — The unified platform for flags, analytics, experiments, and more.
• Sonar — Code quality and code security for ALL code.
—
What happens when a company goes all in on AI?
At Shopify, engineers are expected to utilize AI tools, and they’ve been doing so for longer than most. Thanks to early access to models from GitHub Copilot, OpenAI, and Anthropic, the company has had a head start in figuring out what works.
In this live episode from LDX3 in London, I spoke with Farhan Thawar, VP of Engineering, about how Shopify is building with AI across the entire stack. We cover the company’s internal LLM proxy, its policy of unlimited token usage, and how interns help push the boundaries of what’s possible.
In this episode, we cover:
• How Shopify works closely with AI labs
• The story behind Shopify’s recent Code Red
• How non-engineering teams are using Cursor for vibecoding
• Tobi Lütke’s viral memo and Shopify’s expectations around AI
• A look inside Shopify’s LLM proxy—used for privacy, token tracking, and more
• Why Shopify places no limit on AI token spending
• Why AI-first isn’t about reducing headcount—and why Shopify is hiring 1,000 interns
• How Shopify’s engineering department operates and what’s changed since adopting AI tooling
• Farhan’s advice for integrating AI into your workflow
• And much more!
—
Timestamps
(00:00) Intro
(02:07) Shopify’s philosophy: “hire smart people and pair with them on problems”
(06:22) How Shopify works with top AI labs
(08:50) The recent Code Red at Shopify
(10:47) How Shopify became early users of GitHub Copilot and their pivot to trying multiple tools
(12:49) The surprising ways non-engineering teams at Shopify are using Cursor
(14:53) Why you have to understand code to submit a PR at Shopify
(16:42) AI tools' impact on SaaS
(19:50) Tobi Lütke’s AI memo
(21:46) Shopify’s LLM proxy and how they protect their privacy
(23:00) How Shopify utilizes MCPs
(26:59) Why AI tools aren’t the place to pinch pennies
(30:02) Farhan’s projects and favorite AI tools
(32:50) Why AI-first isn’t about freezing headcount and the value of hiring interns
(36:20) How Shopify’s engineering department operates, including internal tools
(40:31) Why Shopify added coding interviews for director-level and above hires
(43:40) What has changed since Spotify added AI tooling
(44:40) Farhan’s advice for implementing AI tools
—
The Pragmatic Engineer deepdives relevant for this episode:
• How Shopify built its Live Globe for Black Friday
• Inside Shopify's leveling split
• Real-world engineering challenges: building Cursor
• How Anthropic built Artifacts
—
See the transcript and other references from the episode at https://newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/podcast
—
Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@pragmaticengineer.com.
Get full access to The Pragmatic Engineer at newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/subscribe
How Shopify builds a high-intensity culture | Farhan Thawar (VP and Head of Eng)
Farhan Thawar is the head of engineering at Shopify, where he oversees more than 1,000 engineers and a platform that powers over 10% of all U.S. e-commerce. Before Shopify, he was VP of engineering at Pivotal Labs and Xtreme Labs, and co-founder of Helpful.com. In our conversation, Farhan shares:
• Why choosing the harder path leads to better outcomes
• How to create intensity within your org (without burnout)
• Why every company should be embracing pair programming
• How he hires without interviewing
• How he built the world’s largest internship program
• His mission to create a “crafter’s paradise” for engineers
• Much more
—
Brought to you by:
• DX—A platform for measuring and improving developer productivity
• Persona—A global leader in digital identity verification
• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security
—
Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-shopify-builds-a-high-intensity-culture-farhan-thawer
—
Where to find Farhan Thawar:
• X: https://x.com/fnthawar
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fnthawar
—
Where to find Lenny:
• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com
• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/
—
In this episode, we cover:
(00:00) Farhan’s background
(05:38) Choosing the hard path
(09:37) Getting comfortable with looking dumb
(13:20) Lessons from working with visionaries
(19:19) Creating intensity in organizations
(22:06) The power of pair programming
(29:18) Shopify’s culture of intensity
(37:18) Meeting Armageddon: revolutionizing company meetings
(39:46) Reducing distractions
(41:10) Deleting 1M+ lines of code
(49:05) Three buckets of building
(57:45) Remote work and trust battery
(01:00:29) Finding stability in uncomfortable times
(01:03:14) Hiring philosophy
(01:11:41) Internship programs and co-op systems
(01:15:32) Lessons from managing 120 direct reports
(01:20:40) Failure corner
(01:27:46) Lightning round and closing thoughts
—
Referenced:
• The Steve Jobs quote about connecting dots: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/463176-you-can-t-connect-the-dots-looking-forward-you-can-only
• Shopify: https://www.shopify.com/
• GitHub: https://github.com/
• Farhan’s “questions to ask” framework: https://x.com/fnthawar/status/1514193402828574721
• Palantir: https://www.palantir.com/
• Joe Liemandt: https://www.linkedin.com/in/liemandt
• Chamath Palihapitya: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chamath_Palihapitiya
• Xtreme Labs: https://www.xtremelabs.io
• Parkinson’s law: https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-parkinsons-law-6674423
• Pair programming: https://dev.to/documatic/pair-programming-best-practices-and-tools-154j
• Cody Fauser on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/codyfauser
• How Shopify builds product: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-shopify-builds-product
• Chaos Monkey: We look at Shopify’s new ‘culture of focus’: https://www.siliconrepublic.com/careers/shopify-chaos-monkey-meetings-culture-deann-evans
• Empowering devs with AI: How Shopify made GitHub Copilot core to its culture: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVKBwcm5dbw&t=2318s
• Tobi Lütke of Shopify: Powering a Team with a ‘Trust Battery’: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/24/business/tobi-lutke-of-shopify-powering-a-team-with-a-trust-battery.html
• Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brian-cheskys-contrarian-approach
• Stop Being Deceived by Interviews When You’re Hiring: https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesleadershipforum/2012/02/07/stop-being-deceived-by-interviews-when-youre-hiring/
• Shopify’s made the Life Story a major part of their interview: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39294140
• Internships at Shopify: https://internships.shopify.com
• Nick Adams on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nick-adams-32b28139
• React Native: https://reactnative.dev
• Swift: https://www.swift.org
• Acquired podcast: The Mark Zuckerberg interview: https://www.acquired.fm/episodes/the-mark-zuckerberg-interview
• The Power of Performance Reviews: Use This System to Become a Better Manager: https://review.firstround.com/the-power-of-performance-reviews-use-this-system-to-become-a-better-manager
• Airbnb’s Vlad Loktev on embracing chaos, inquiry over advocacy, poking the bear, and “impact, impact, impact” (Partner at Index Ventures, Airbnb GM/VP Product): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/impact-impact-impact-vlad-loktev
• The Secret to a Great Planning Process—Lessons from Airbnb and Eventbrite: https://review.firstround.com/the-secret-to-a-great-planning-process-lessons-from-airbnb-and-eventbrite
• How to do great work: https://www.paulgraham.com/greatwork.html
• Challengers on Prime: https://www.amazon.com/Challengers-Luca-Guadagnino/dp/B0CX5MZ9M4
• Halt and Catch Fire on Prime: https://www.amazon.com/Halt-Catch-Fire-Season-1/dp/B0CKXZNT96
• Meta Ray-Bans: https://www.meta.com/smart-glasses/shop-all
• Making Meta | Andrew ‘Boz’ Bosworth (CTO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/making-meta-andrew-boz-bosworth-cto
—
Recommended books:
• The Undoing Project: A Friendship That Changed Our Minds: https://www.amazon.com/Undoing-Project-Friendship-Changed-Minds/dp/0393254593
• Range: Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World: https://www.amazon.com/Range-Generalists-Triumph-Specialized-World/dp/0735214484
• Manna: Two Visions of Humanity’s Future: https://www.amazon.com/Manna-Two-Visions-Humanitys-Future-ebook/dp/B007HQH67U
• Business Adventures: Twelve Classic Tales from the World of Wall Street: https://www.amazon.com/Business-Adventures-Twelve-Classic-Street/dp/1504000021
—
Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.
—
Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe
SaaStr 427: How to Build a Great Intern Program with Farhan Thawar, VP Engineering @ Shopify
Internships have sparked millions of successful careers, and they can be a valuable talent pool from which companies can eventually hire full-time employees. But it's critical to build your internship program the right way. Farhan Thawar, the VP of Engineering at Shopify, has dedicated years to perfecting his internship program and shares his insider tips for launching a successful initiative of your own.
Video + blog post: https://www.saastr.com/how-to-build-a-great-intern-program-from-scratch-with-shopify/
