20VC: OpenAI's Sam Altman, Mistral's Arthur Mensch and more discuss: Will Foundation Models Be Commoditised | Which Startups Are Threatened vs Enabled by OpenAI | Is the Value in the Infrastructure or Application Layer?
Sam Altman is the CEO @ OpenAI, the company on a mission is to ensure that artificial general intelligence benefits all of humanity. OpenAI is one of the fastest-scaling companies in history with a valuation of $90BN and $2BN+ in revenue.
Brad Lightcap is the COO @ OpenAI and the man responsible for the incredible scaling of sales, GTM, partnerships and business to today being over $2BN in revenue.
Arthur Mensch is the Co-Founder and CEO of Mistral AI. Since its inception in May 2023, Mistral has raised over $520M in funding from investors like Andreeseen Horowitz, General Catalyst, Lightspeed Venture Partners, and Microsoft with a current valuation of $2 billion.
Des Traynor is a Co-Founder of Intercom, and has built and led many teams within the company, including Product, Marketing, and Customer Support. Today Des leads all of Intercom's R&D efforts, and parts of Intercom's marketing.
Tom Hulme is a Managing Partner of GV (Google Ventures), and leads the European team. Today, GV has over $10BN in AUM and Tom has led investments in Lemonade.com (IPO), Snyk, Secret Escapes, Blockchain.com, GoCardless, and Currency Cloud (exited to Visa).
Tomasz Tunguz is the Founder and General Partner @ Theory Ventures, just announced last week, Theory is a $230M fund that invests $1-25m in early-stage companies that leverage technology discontinuities into go-to-market advantages.
Sarah Tavel is a General Partner @ Benchmark, one of the most successful and renowned venture firms in the world. At Benchmark, Sarah has led rounds in Chainalysis, Hipcamp, Medely, Rekki, Glide, Cambly and more.
In Today's Episode We Discuss:
Will foundation models be commoditised?
What is the end state for the foundation model landscape in 10 years?
How will large cloud provider incumbents approach M&A with smaller foundation model providers?
When will we see marginal revenue exceed marginal cost in the foundation model business model?
Where is the value: the application layer or the infrastructure layer?
How can startups know whether they will be threatened by OpenAI?
What are good tests/questions to know if you are in the path of one of the large foundation models?
How does the business model of SaaS fundamentally change in a world of AI?
Will we see the end of per-seat pricing in a new world of AI?
What is the right way to approach pricing in a world of AI? Consumption? Tokens?
20VC: AI's Biggest Questions: The Commoditisation of LLMs, Open vs Closed: Who Wins, Model Size vs Data Quality, Why Google are Vulnerable and Apple are the Dark Horse
Des Traynor is a Co-Founder of Intercom, and has built and led many teams within the company, including Product, Marketing, and Customer Support.
Yann LeCun is VP & Chief AI Scientist at Meta and Silver Professor at NYU affiliated with the Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences & the Center for Data Science. He was the founding Director of FAIR and of the NYU Center for Data Science.
Emad Mostaque is the Co-Founder and CEO @ StabilityAI, the parent company of Stable Diffusion. Stability are building the foundation to activate humanity's potential.
Jeff Seibert is the Founder & CEO @ Digits, building the future of AI-powered accounting. Digits have raised funding from the likes of Peter Fenton @ Benchmark and 20VC.
Tomasz Tunguz is the Founder and General Partner @ Theory Ventures, just announced last week, Theory is a $230M fund that invests $1-25m in early-stage companies that leverage technology discontinuities into go-to-market advantages.
Douwe Kiela is the CEO of Contextual AI, building the contextual language model to power the future of businesses.
Cris Valenzuela is the CEO and co-founder of Runway, the company that trains and builds generative AI models for content creation.
Richard Socher is the founder and CEO of You.com. Richard previously served as the Chief Scientist and EVP at Salesforce. Before that, Richard was the CEO/CTO of AI startup MetaMind, acquired by Salesforce in 2016.
In Today's Episode We Discuss:
Foundational Models: Analysis
Will foundational models become commoditized?
Who are the major players? What are their different strengths?
Who will win? Who will lose?
How important is the size of the model vs the quality of the data?
2. Open vs Closed:
What are the biggest pros and cons of an open ecosystem for LLMs?
Why is it naive to think that open-source LLMs will prevail?
What will determine which method wins?
3. An Analysis of the Incumbents:
Why is Google the most vulnerable? What can they do to regain ground?
Why is Apple the sleeping giant? How could they win the next wave of AI?
What should Amazon do today to compete with Microsoft?
4. The Future: Doom and Gloom?
Why is it ridiculous to assume AI systems want to dominate?
Why will AI create a renaissance of creativity and human freedom?
What role should regulation play in the advancement and progression of AI?
20VC: How to Survive and Thrive in a World of OpenAI, Are LLMs Being Commoditised, Where Does the Value Lie; Infrastructure or Application Layer, How Apple Could Win in a World of AI, How Amazon Could Threaten OpenAI and Why Google Struggle with Des Trayn
Des Traynor is a Co-Founder of Intercom, and has built and led many teams within the company, including Product, Marketing, and Customer Support. Today Des leads all Intercom's R&D efforts, and parts of Intercom's marketing.
In Today's Episode with Des We Discuss:
1. From Consultancy to Founding a Unicorn:
What was the founding a-ha moment for Des and the team with Intercom?
Why does Des believe that most startup advice is BS and outdated in 5 years?
What does Des know now that he wishes he had known when he started?
2. LLMs: The World is Not Equal:
What does Des mean when he says the world of LLMs is not equal?
How do the different LLMs very in quality, price and speciality?
Does Des agree with Alex @ Nabla, "the best companies in the future will work with many LLMs at the same time and switch between them for different things"?
To what extent does Des believe LLMs will be commoditised and it will be a race to the bottom?
Would Des be a buyer of OpenAI at a $90BN price? Why not?
3. How to Survive in a World of OpenAI:
What two simple questions will determine if Open AI will kill your existing business?
What 3 criteria will determine if there is a new business to be built on top of OpenAI?
What is the different between a thin layer on top of an LLM and a thick wrapper with real value?
Which traditional incumbents are most vulnerable? What should they do in this new world?
How long does it take for incumbents to really be impacted?
4. The Titans of Tech: Who Wins:
Why does Des believe that Apple could be a massive winner in the next wave of AI?
Why does Des believe that Google have not been impressive and failed to keep pace?
Why does Des think OpenAI should be wary of Amazon? What could they do to threaten them?
What opportunity does Facebook have here? How could Instagram and Whatsapp win?
5. Startup and Investing 101:
Why does Des believe that every founder should write a blog post per week?
Why does Des believe that most B2B marketing sucks? What makes great B2B marketing?
What are Des' biggest lessons from the Hopin journey?
How has Des' angel investing changed in the last year with the rise of AI?
Des Traynor - Real Talk about AI and Software - [Invest Like the Best, EP.340]
My guest today is Des Traynor. Des is the co-founder and Chief Strategy Officer of Intercom - a customer service solution that helps businesses answer product questions, offer instant support, and automate sales. The business was founded in 2011 and its products operate within 25,000 businesses, including the likes of Amazon, Lyft and Atlassian. Our conversation is roughly split in half. First, we talk about AI and how it’s actually changing businesses like Intercom through products such as their OpenAI powered bot called Fin. We then talk about Des’s views as an investor, which includes an answer about software that I’ll remember for a long time. Please enjoy my conversation with Des Traynor.
Listen to Founders Podcast
Founders Episode 311: James Cameron
For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page here.
-----
This episode is brought to you by Tegus. Tegus is the modern research platform for leading investors, and provider of Canalyst. Tired of calculating fully-diluted shares outstanding? Access every publicly-reported datapoint and industry-specific KPI through their database of over 4,000 drivable global models hand-built by a team of sector-focused analysts, 35+ industry comp sheets, and Excel add-ins that let you use their industry-leading data in your own spreadsheets. Tegus’ models automatically update each quarter, including hard to calculate KPIs like stock-based compensation and organic growth rates, empowering investors to bypass the friction of sourcing, building and updating models. Make efficiency your competitive advantage and take back your time today. As a listener, you can trial Canalyst by Tegus for free by visiting tegus.co/patrick.
-----
Invest Like the Best is a property of Colossus, LLC. For more episodes of Invest Like the Best, visit joincolossus.com/episodes.
Past guests include Tobi Lutke, Kevin Systrom, Mike Krieger, John Collison, Kat Cole, Marc Andreessen, Matthew Ball, Bill Gurley, Anu Hariharan, Ben Thompson, and many more.
Stay up to date on all our podcasts by signing up to Colossus Weekly, our quick dive every Sunday highlighting the top business and investing concepts from our podcasts and the best of what we read that week. Sign up here.
Follow us on Twitter: @patrick_oshag | @JoinColossus
Show Notes
(00:03:42) - (First question) - Des's high level thoughts on Open AI and new technology
(00:07:07) - Advanced AI tech for existing businesses versus start-ups ventures
(00:11:14) - Where Intercom falls on the spectrum of existing and new AI technology
(00:13:16) - Training AI to be tailored to specific fields of work
(00:18:25) - The natural end point is for Intercom incorporating AI
(00:22:25) - Des's product philosophy behind this technology
(00:24:03) - Choosing an AI provider that best suited his customer service industry needs
(00:26:55) - The value comparison between using AI-led customer service versus human
(00:29:18) - Why outsourcing automated data is not for everyone
(00:31:15) - Des's advice for other companies beginning to integrate AI into their operations
(00:36:33) - What he is excited for as an investor in this area
(00:37:50) - The most common discussions he’s having about this technology
(00:41:21) - The inherent risks of using AI models that are not 100% accurate
(00:45:10) - Des's evolution as an investor
(00:48:25) - How Intercom solved it’s AI execution problems
(00:50:46) - Combating other companies that are trying to overtake the field
(00:53:44) - Counter arguments for using AI technology
(00:57:22) - His view on the best software out there
(01:03:00) - The kindest thing anyone has ever done for him
20VC: Why Being First Does Not Matter, Why Defensibility on Day 1 Does Not Exist, Three Core Elements To Move into Enterprise Effectively and What Makes Truly Great Product Marketing Today with Des Traynor, Co-Founder @ Intercom
Des Traynor is a Co-founder and the Chief Strategy Officer of Intercom, the modern customer communications platform that unifies every aspect of the customer journey. To date, Intercom has raised over $238M from some of the best including Index, ICONIQ, Kleiner, GV, and Bessemer. As for Des, before co-founding Intercom, he was a UX consultant, a university lecturer in computer science, and also a Ph.D. researcher. Des is also a prolific angel investor with a portfolio including the likes of Stripe, Algolia, Notion, Miro, and many more.
In Today's Episode We Discuss:
1.) Origins of Intercom:
How did Des make his way into the world of startups and come to co-found Intercom?
When did they realize they really had something with Intercom and had to focus on it?
What does Des know now that he wishes he had known at the start of Intercom?
2. Two of the Biggest Myths in Startups: Being First and Defensibility
Why does Des believe that being the first does not matter? Why is it not an advantage?
Why does Des believe that no company has defensibility on day 1? How does Des believe defensibility is built?
What does Des mean when he says, when investing in companies he looks for a "long road to the starting line"?
3.) Product 101: A Masterclass on Product:
How does Des answer the question of when to release a second product?
How should the second product be resourced? MVP and lean or full budget and committed?
What are the biggest mistakes people make when releasing a second product? What mistakes have Des and Intercom made when releasing new products?
How does Des advise founders on when to stop working on a product? How do you know when it is not working?
How does Des determine between a feature and a product both when building and when investing?
4.) Moving to Enterprise:
What does Des believe are the three core things all companies need to scale into the enterprise effectively? Which should they do first? Which is most challenging?
How does Des advise founders on when is the right time to move into the enterprise?
How does the product need to change to meet enterprise needs and requirements?
5.) The Makings of Great Product Marketing:
What does Des believe makes truly great product marketing? Who does it well today?
How does your product marketing need to change as you scale from SMB to enterprise?
If product marketing to both an end user and a separate buyer, which persona should one prioritise their messaging towards?
How does Des advise founders on product marketing when they have a horizontal product with a very broad customer base?
6.) Angel Investing 101: From Stripe to Miro to Notion:
Why does Des believe it is beneficial for operators to also be investing?
What are the biggest lessons Des has learned from angel investing?
How does Des approach both market sizing and outcome scenario planning today?
How price sensitive is Des today? How has that changed over time?
Item's Mentioned in Today's Episode with Des Traynor:
Des' Favourite Book: How Will You Measure Your Life by Clayton Christensen
What startups need to succeed | Scaling Your Startup S2 E10 with Intercom’s Des Traynor | E1234
Intercom CEO Des Traynor discusses why startups need to grow fast (7:44), how to execute at speed (10:48), build an effective culture (33:35) & more!
Intercom’s Des Traynor on the importance of pricing, product-market fit metrics & more | Angel S5 E2
Check out Intercom: https://www.intercom.com
FOLLOW Des: https://twitter.com/destraynor
FOLLOW Jason: https://linktr.ee/calacanis
#064 – The Path from Minimum Viable Product to $50M a Year with Des Traynor of Intercom
As Intercom's Chief Strategy Officer, Des Traynor (@DesTraynor) knows a thing or two about building a successful company. Over the past 7 years, he's worn almost every hat there is to wear. In this interview, Des explains how Intercom got to where it is today and what he's learned along the way, from marketing, to product development and feature prioritization, to hiring, sales, and developing an effective vision that people can believe in.
Transcript, speaker information, and more: https://www.indiehackers.com/podcast/064-des-traynor-of-intercom
SaaStr 155: Intercom Co-Founder, Des Traynor on Constructing The Right Brand Architecture, The Right Way To Integrate Customer Feedback Into Product Roadmap & Why There Is An Inverse Correlation Between Quality & Market Size
Des Traynor is the Co-Founder, Chief Strategy Officer and VP of Marketing at Intercom, one of the world's hottest startups that simply put, makes communicating with customers easy and efficient. They have raised over $115m in funding from some of the world's leading investors including Social Capital, Index Ventures, Bessemer Venture Partners and then titans of industry with Mark Zuckerberg, Jack Dorsey and the Collison brothers at Stripe. Prior to Intercom, Des previously co-founded Exceptional (now a part of Rackspace), and prior was a UX designer for web applications.
In Today's Episode You Will Learn:
How Des made his way from founding consultancy web design businesses in Ireland to founding SaaS superstar, Intercom, with Eoghan and moving to San Francisco?
Why does Des believe that "brand is the most overlooked element for new startups"? How must founders think differently when constructing their brand for a single product vs multi-product company? What is the right way to think about this brand architecture?
How involved should customers be in the development of product roadmap? Where are the nuances and challenges to this? When is the right time to start thinking about releasing a second product? What is the right and the wrong way for this to be marketed?
What does Des mean when he says, "there is an inverse correlation between quality and market size"? How should founders think about selling to both SMB and enterprise? How do their buying psychology and implementation process differ?
60 Second SaaStr
When I say success, who is the first person that comes to Des' mind?
Where do most startups go wrong with their branding?
What does Des know now that he wishes he had known at the beginning?
If you would like to find out more about the show and the guests presented, you can follow us on Twitter here:
Jason Lemkin
Harry Stebbings
SaaStr
Des Traynor
Episode 55: Des Traynor
Des Traynor is the co-founder of Intercom. In this episode we get deep into the weeds of startup land. We discuss product market fit, advice to entrepreneurs, hiring, firing, productivity, and a lot more. Des is one of the best growth and product founders in the game, and drops gems in this episode. Edited by @alexkontis Lavish Praise to @destraynor Constructive Criticism to @eriktorenberg
.jpg?width=400)
.jpg?width=400){kind=small}
.jpg?width=400){kind=small}
