Bits + Bips: The Case for Why DATs Are Superior to Crypto ETFs - Ep. 897
DATs aren’t done. They may just be getting started.
In this episode, CoinFund’s Chris Perkins and Upexi’s Brian Rudick join Ram Ahluwalia and Steven Ehrlich to dissect why some DATs could outcompete ETFs for certain investors, the bullish accretion math behind premiums, and what makes a winning vehicle.
We also dig into whether this is altcoin season or a head fake, why Galaxy’s tokenized-share move matters, and the one market unlock Perkins says could change everything.
Use this episode to pressure-test your assumptions: are DATs “just banks,” or the best product-market-fit crypto has found for TradFi capital?
Thank you to our sponsor Xapo Bank!
Xapo offers Bitcoin-backed loans of up to $1 million, so eligible members can access liquidity without selling their BTC.
Hosts:
Ram Ahluwalia, CFA, CEO and Founder of Lumida
Steve Ehrlich, Executive Editor at Unchained
Guests:
Christopher Perkins, Managing Partner and President of CoinFund
Brian Rudick, Chief Strategy Officer at Upexi
Links:
DATs:
How Crypto Treasury Companies Are Turning to DeFi and TradFi to Juice Yields
How Michael Saylor Plans to Ensure Strategy Keeps Its Bitcoin Forever
These 4 Crypto Treasury Companies Are Primed for a Price Crash
Crypto Treasury Companies Are All the Rage. Could They Cause an Industry Collapse?
Tokenization:
Federal Reserve to hold conference discussing crypto stablecoins, tokenization, and AI
GLXY tokenized stock
Ondo Finance launched over 100 tokenized U.S. stocks and ETFs on Ethereum
CZ-owned Trust Wallet launches tokenized stocks and ETFs
Timestamps:
🎬 0:00 Intro
⏱ 3:00 Are markets set for another September swoon?
📈 6:03 Why the bull case for DATs isn’t over
🏦 12:41 Why Brian says “DATs are banks”
💡 18:20 Are DATs better products than ETFs for investors?
🧮 21:00 How the math behind premiums shows DATs create value
🪙 28:01 Whether this is the time for altcoins to shine
🌍 35:10 Where macro is heading and what investors should watch
🚨 37:48 Why Galaxy’s tokenized-share move on Solana is such a big deal
🔑 49:25 What the key market unlock is for altcoins
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Ethereum and The Trillion Dollar Internet Bond | Chris Perkins
Chris Perkins has a fascinating background as a marine who was shot at in Iraq, was at Lehman bros when it all came crashing down, was a Citigroup trying to pick up the piece of the financial crisis where he first ran across Gary Gensler, and now he’s in crypto. We talk about all that, but that’s not even the main event.
The Main Event is Ether the asset and a new reference rate he’s building on top of it. This sounds in the weeds but it’s actually actually key to unlocking trillions in new financial products. You might call this new rate the Libor for ETH.
------ 🏹 USE PODCAST24 FOR 10% OFF https://bankless.cc/Citizen2024 ------ 🎧 Listen On Your Favorite Podcast Player: https://bankless.cc/Podcast ------ BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:
🐙KRAKEN | MOST-TRUSTED CRYPTO EXCHANGE https://k.xyz/bankless-pod-q2
🔗CELO | CEL2 COMING SOON https://bankless.cc/Celo
🗣️TOKU | CRYPTO EMPLOYMENT SOLUTION https://bankless.cc/toku
🛞MANTLE | MODULAR LAYER 2 NETWORK https://bankless.cc/Mantle
💸 CRYPTO TAX CALCULATOR | USE CODE BANK30 https://bankless.cc/CTC
⚖️ARBITRUM | SCALING ETHEREUM https://bankless.cc/Arbitrum
🦄 UNISWAP | Swap Smarter https://bankless.cc/uniswap
------ TIMESTAMPS 00:00:00 Start 00:11:33 Intro to Chris 00:13:17 From Banks To Crypto 00:16:27 Hostility Towards Crypto 00:19:16 National Security 00:25:23 Takes on Regulation 00:31:12 TradFi Response To Crypto 00:33:58 ETH ETF 00:37:24 Libor for ETH? 00:42:43 Libor Recap 00:45:35 How Was Libor Corrupted? 00:53:21 ETH Reference Rate 01:04:13 Risk Free Rate 01:10:08 Real vs Nominal Returns 01:21:51 DeFi Applications 01:26:01 Market Size 01:33:17 Going Forward
------ RESOURCES
CESR home page: https://www.coindesk.com/indices/ether/cesr CESR methodology document: https://coinfund.io/cesr/ CESR Tearsheet: https://downloads.coindesk.com/cd3/CDI/CESR+Fact+Sheet.pdf
More Reading: https://www.coindesk.com/consensus-magazine/2023/09/26/how-staking-rates-can-drive-the-crypto-economy-forward/ https://www.coindesk.com/business/2023/09/27/five-reasons-why-the-world-needs-a-standardized-ethereum-staking-rate/ https://www.risk.net/derivatives/7957405/new-hope-for-crypto-derivatives-as-markets-urged-to-hail-cesr
------ Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here: https://www.bankless.com/disclosures
Why CoinFund Believes Worldcoin Could Become More Popular Than Bitcoin - Ep. 525
CoinFund’s Jake Brukhman and Chris Perkins join Unchained to dissect their recent $158 million seed round and the transformation of the investment landscape following the 2022 crypto carnage. As backers of Worldcoin, they confront criticisms about the project's approach of distributing money to individuals who may not fully comprehend the underlying technology. They also delve into why the Coinbase lawsuit could potentially boost the industry, share their perspectives on current crypto legislation, and explore the intersection of AI and crypto.
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.
Show highlights:
how the fundraising crypto environment changed this past year after the 2022 carnage
what the impact of FTX’s alleged fraud has been
why Chris and Jake believe that the SEC’s lawsuit against Coinbase is bullish for the industry
why Jake believes there's no massive consumer application in web3 yet
how institutions have been building during the bear market
whether Worldcoin solves the sybil resistance problem in crypto and whether it could become more decentralized than Bitcoin
Jake's response to the criticism surrounding the centralization and privacy issues in Worldcoin
the ethical implications of giving free money to people who may not fully understand how their biometric data is being used
what the Composite Ether Staking Rate (CESR) is and what are its two main applications
how the foundational web3 + AI intersection is happening in the compute area
why Chris believes that the crypto market structure bill is not perfect
whether creating proper stablecoin legislation is a very important opportunity for the US
how DeFi should be regulated to ensure that privacy gets protected
Thank you to our sponsors!
Crypto.com
Arbitrum Foundation
TOKEN2049
Guests:
Chris Perkins, President of CoinFund
Jake Brukhman, Founder and CEO of CoinFund
Links
Unchained:
Worldcoin Launches Token on Mainnet, Plans to Deploy 1,500 Eyeball Scanning Orbs
Is Sam Altman's Worldcoin the End of People's Privacy?
CoinDesk:
Worldcoin Could Enable Wider Distribution of Crypto Than Even Bitcoin, Says CoinFund,
Worldcoin Releases Tokenomics, Report Geofenced for Some Countries
The Block: What exactly is CoinFund's new Composite Ethereum Staking Rate
What do I think about biometric proof of personhood? By Vitalik Buterin
CoinDesk Indices and CoinFund Announce CESR, the Benchmark Rate for Staking on Ethereum
CoinFund Reinforces Commitment to Web3 Technology with the Close of $158M Seed IV Fund
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
What exactly is CoinFund's new Composite Ethereum Staking Rate
Ethereum's transition to proof of stake brought significant changes to the network, including a more predictable yield for investors. Unlike proof of work, which relies on miners to validate transactions and secure the network, proof of stake involves validators holding a stake in the network and earning yield in ether for their support.
CoinFund, a crypto investment firm, is attempting to standardize the yield model to create a new benchmark yield rate for Web3.
In this episode, CoinFund President Chris Perkins explains how CoinFund's new Composite Ethereum Staking Rate ('CESR') aims to provide investors with a clear and comparable metric that can serve as the foundation for new financial products for the crypto space such as basis swaps and the development of a forward curve tied to Ethereum's interest rate.
This episode is brought to you by our sponsor CleanSpark.
About CleanSpark
CleanSpark (NASDAQ: CLSK) is America’s Bitcoin Miner™. Visit cleanspark.com/theblock to learn more about the CleanSpark way.
CoinFund executives explain why crypto is the ‘obvious’ choice for ambitious fintech pioneers
Founded in 2015, crypto-native VC firm CoinFund has spent the past year bolstering its leadership with talent from the world of traditional finance, including Chris Perkins — a former executive at Citigroup — and Christopher Giancarlo, the former CFTC chair.
CoinFund’s hiring of Chris Perkins as the firm’s new President is part of a larger exodus of talent from Citi towards digital asset companies, as reported by The Block.
In this episode of The Scoop, CoinFund’s President Chris Perkins and CEO Jake Brukhman break down the recent personnel updates at CoinFund, and explain why the combination of crypto-natives and experienced executives from traditional finance are key to pushing blockchain technology to the point of mass adoption.
While Brukhman and Perkins believe outsiders from traditional finance can help crypto projects scale, that is not to say that all crypto projects are eager for VC firms to get involved.
As Perkins mentioned during the interview: “Crypto is all about community, and you really have to work to navigate that community to understand the founders and to help them grow.”
While the crypto community can be nuanced compared to the world of traditional finance, Perkins believes the allure of working with the burgeoning digital asset industry is strong enough to continue to draw in talent:
“We're effectively in the process of giving birth to a brand new asset class. And it's just so incredibly exciting being a pioneer, being on the cutting edge. For those of us who are wired like that, it's kind of obvious why you'd want to transition into this space.”
Episode 36 of Season 4 of The Scoop was recorded remotely with The Block’s Frank Chaparro and Senior Fintech Reporter Lucy Harley-McKeown, and Chris Perkins, President and Jake Brukhman, CEO & Founder of CoinFund.
Listen below, and subscribe to The Scoop on Apple, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher or wherever you listen to podcasts. Email feedback and revision requests to podcast@theblockcrypto.com.
This episode is brought to you by our sponsors Fireblocks, Coinbase Prime & Cross River
Fireblocks is an enterprise-grade platform delivering a secure infrastructure for moving, storing, and issuing digital assets. Fireblocks enables exchanges, lending desks, custodians, banks, trading desks, and hedge funds to securely scale digital asset operations through the Fireblocks Network and MPC-based Wallet Infrastructure. Fireblocks serves over 725 financial institutions, has secured the transfer of over $1.5 trillion in digital assets, and has a unique insurance policy that covers assets in storage & transit. For more information, please visit www.fireblocks.com.
About Coinbase Prime
Coinbase Prime is an integrated solution that provides institutional investors with an advanced trading platform, secure custody, and prime services to manage all their crypto assets in one place. Coinbase Prime fully integrates crypto trading and custody on a single platform, and gives clients the best all-in pricing in their network using their proprietary Smart Order Router and algorithmic execution. For more information, visit www.coinbase.com/prime.
About Cross River
Cross River is powering today’s most innovative crypto companies, with banking and payments solutions you can rely on, including fiat on/off ramp solutions. Whether you are a crypto exchange, NFT marketplace, or wallet, Cross River’s API-based, all-in-one platform enables banking as a service, ACH & wire transfers, push-to-card disbursements, real-time payments, and virtual accounts and subledgers. Request your fiat on/off ramp solution now at crossriver.com/crypto.
FTX Wants to Compete With CME -- Here's Why It's a Big Deal - Ep.346
Chris Perkins, president of CoinFund, a web3 investment firm, discusses his experience at the Crypto Bahamas conference before diving into an FTX.US proposal that would allow for direct trading of crypto derivatives in the US – which appears to be rocking the boat of certain regulators in D.C. Show topics:
Chris’s two biggest takeaways from his Crypto Bahamas experience
how Chris’s experience at Lehman Brothers and Citi prepared him for crypto
what issues arise via the plumbing of traditional financial markets
why centralized intermediaries make derivatives trading efficient
what FTX.US is proposing and how it could be a boon for retail traders
how crypto settlement would work compared to the current batch trading method
why the acquisition of LedgerX enabled FTX.US to make this proposal
what license FTX.US feels like it no longer needs since it can settle derivative transactions on a blockchain
whether FTX.US would expand to other derivatives and what that might do to an entity like CME
what Chris is listening for in the CFTC’s public discussion surrounding FTX.US’s proposal
whether FTX.US’s proposal will be a partisan issue
Thank you to our sponsors!
Crypto.com: https://crypto.onelink.me/J9Lg/unconfirmedcardearnfeb2021
Coinchange: https://coinchange.io
OnJuno: https://onjuno.com/
Galaxis: https://galaxis.xyz/
Episode Links
Chris Perkins
LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopher-perkins-092569a/
Twitter:
https://twitter.com/perkinscr97
CoinFund:
https://twitter.com/coinfund_io
Coverage of the FTX.US Proposal
Bloomberg: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-21/crypto-billionaire-rankles-wall-street-with-futures-trading-plan?sref=m9L277rN
Forbes:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonbrett/2022/04/27/the-ftx-us-proposal-that-shook-congress-and-the-crypto-derivatives-world/
The Block:
https://www.theblockcrypto.com/linked/143792/as-it-weighs-ftx-proposal-cftc-announces-a-roundtable-on-disintermediation
https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/137304/cftc-opens-up-ftx-uss-derivatives-trading-model-to-public-comment
https://www.theblockcrypto.com/linked/140026/ftx-derivatives-proposal-takes-center-stage-at-congressional-hearing-with-cftc-chairman
CoinDesk
https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/03/10/ftxus-derivatives-unit-seeks-cftc-amendment-to-clear-margin-trades-directly-for-customers/
https://www.coindesk.com/video/recent-videos/ftx-us-to-meet-with-cftc-regarding-derivatives-trades/
Public comment:
https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/137304/cftc-opens-up-ftx-uss-derivatives-trading-model-to-public-comment
May roundtable:
https://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/8519-22
https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2022/04/19/ftx-plan-said-to-face-cftc-roundtable-next-month/
https://www.theblockcrypto.com/linked/143792/as-it-weighs-ftx-proposal-cftc-announces-a-roundtable-on-disintermediation
CME opposition to proposal:
https://www.marketsmedia.com/cme-to-oppose-ftx-clearing-proposal/
Unchained Coverage of FTX.US and LedgerX
2021:
https://unchainedpodcast.com/why-the-ftx-us-ledgerx-deal-indicates-crypto-ma-might-start-booming/
2019:
https://unchainedpodcast.com/ledgerx-on-the-reasons-to-trade-bitcoin-options/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
.jpg?width=400){kind=small}