In this episode, Kat Cosgrove (SIG Docs Technical Lead, SIG Release Subproject Lead, and Steering Committee member) and Natali Vlatko (SIG Docs Co-Chair, Steering Committee member for the TODO Group, and Open Source Architect at Cisco) join hosts Kaslin Fields and Abdel Sghiouar to discuss the newly published Kubernetes AI usage policy. We dive into the legal and administrative reasoning behind the policy—including why AI tools cannot legally sign the Contributor License Agreement (CLA) or co-author PRs—and explore how maintainers manage the influx of "AI slop" PRs, spam comments, and restricted AI note-taker bots in community meetings. The discussion highlights the balance between human accountability and AI as an enhancer, while sharing actionable advice on how new contributors can sustainably get involved with SIG Docs, issue wrangling, and the Kubernetes Release Team.
Do you have something cool to share? Some questions? Let us know:
web: kubernetespodcast.com
mail: kubernetespodcast@google.com
twitter: @kubernetespod
bluesky: @kubernetespodcast.com
News of the week Apple Native Container Tool for macOS 1.0: Apple has shipped version 1.0 of its native container tool for macOS. Built in Swift specifically for Apple Silicon, it departs from traditional shared-VM setups like Docker Desktop by isolating every single Linux container inside its own dedicated micro-VM using the native macOS Virtualization framework. Read more on Cloud Native Now.
Google OpenRL: Google launched OpenRL, a new open-source project designed to streamline the training and reinforcement learning loops of large language models. The tool brings declarative, Kubernetes-style resource orchestration concepts to the messy process of AI model fine-tuning. Read more on Cloud Native Now.
CNCF Welcomes New Members: At KubeCon CloudNativeCon India, the CNCF announced they added 14 new members, end Users, and non-profit organizations, highlighting the continued growth of the Cloud Native Ecosystem. One of the new members is Loveable, who was a recent guest on the show. We highly recommend you go listen to Episode 268 about the Agent Sandbox. Read the full announcement on PR Newswire.
Is a Pod the Right Deployment Unit for an AI Agent?: Lin Sun from Solo published a community post on the CNCF blog questioning whether the classic Kubernetes Pod primitive is still the best abstraction for hosting autonomous, long-running AI agents and introducing Agent-substrate, a project attempting to bring a solution to the table. Read more on the CNCF Blog.
Links from the interview Kubernetes AI Usage Policy – Read the community's official guidelines and rules for AI-assisted contributions.
TODO Group Steering Committee – A Linux Foundation project bringing OSPO professionals and enthusiasts together.
Contributor License Agreement (CLA) – Standard agreement required for all human contributors, which AI agents cannot legally sign.
Kubernetes SIG Docs – Get involved with the documentation community.
SIG Docs Style Guide – Learn the style guidelines for contributing to Kubernetes docs.
Kubernetes SIG Release – Details on how to get involved with the release cycle.
Links from the post-interview chat Linus Torvalds on AI LinkedIn Post – Torvalds' clarification on using AI as a helper tool rather than writing kernel C++ code.
Devoxx– A popular developer conference in Europe
Prowbot GitHub Repo – Kubernetes' main CI/CD bot handling PR automation.
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Kubernetes is the second-largest open-source project in the world. What does it actually do—and why is it so widely adopted?
In this episode of The Pragmatic Engineer, I’m joined by Kat Cosgrove, who has led several Kubernetes releases. Kat has been contributing to Kubernetes for several years, and originally got involved with the project through K3s (the lightweight Kubernetes distribution).
In our conversation, we discuss how Kubernetes is structured, how it scales, and how the project is managed to avoid contributor burnout.
We also go deep into:
• An overview of what Kubernetes is used for
• A breakdown of Kubernetes architecture: components, pods, and kubelets
• Why Google built Borg, and how it evolved into Kubernetes
• The benefits of large-scale open source projects—for companies, contributors, and the broader ecosystem
• The size and complexity of Kubernetes—and how it’s managed
• How the project protects contributors with anti-burnout policies
• The size and structure of the release team
• What KEPs are and how they shape Kubernetes features
• Kat’s views on GenAI, and why Kubernetes blocks using AI, at least for documentation
• Where Kat would like to see AI tools improve developer workflows
• Getting started as a contributor to Kubernetes—and the career and networking benefits that come with it
• And much more!
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Timestamps
(00:00) Intro
(02:02) An overview of Kubernetes and who it’s for
(04:27) A quick glimpse at the architecture: Kubernetes components, pods, and cubelets
(07:00) Containers vs. virtual machines
(10:02) The origins of Kubernetes
(12:30) Why Google built Borg, and why they made it an open source project
(15:51) The benefits of open source projects
(17:25) The size of Kubernetes
(20:55) Cluster management solutions, including different Kubernetes services
(21:48) Why people contribute to Kubernetes
(25:47) The anti-burnout policies Kubernetes has in place
(29:07) Why Kubernetes is so popular
(33:34) Why documentation is a good place to get started contributing to an open-source project
(35:15) The structure of the Kubernetes release team
(40:55) How responsibilities shift as engineers grow into senior positions
(44:37) Using a KEP to propose a new feature—and what’s next
(48:20) Feature flags in Kubernetes
(52:04) Why Kat thinks most GenAI tools are scams—and why Kubernetes blocks their use
(55:04) The use cases Kat would like to have AI tools for
(58:20) When to use Kubernetes
(1:01:25) Getting started with Kubernetes
(1:04:24) How contributing to an open source project is a good way to build your network
(1:05:51) Rapid fire round
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The Pragmatic Engineer deepdives relevant for this episode:
• Backstage: an open source developer portal
• How Linux is built with Greg Kroah-Hartman
• Software engineers leading projects
• What TPMs do and what software engineers can learn from them
• Engineering career paths at Big Tech and scaleups
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See the transcript and other references from the episode at https://newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/podcast
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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@pragmaticengineer.com.
Get full access to The Pragmatic Engineer at newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/subscribe
This week on Screaming in the Cloud, Corey Quinn is joined by Kat Cosgrove, Lead Open Source Advocate for Dell Technologies. Kat catches Corey up to speed on the newest version of Kubernetes that Kat was the release lead for. The two discuss its unconventional name: Uwubernetes, what goes into creating and implementing a new version of the world’s second biggest open-source project, and which of Kat’s changes will be her legacy to Kubernetes. Kat also shares how she handles running a team that essentially works for free and what her Kubernetes role will be moving forward.
Show Highlights:
00:00 - Introduction and Welcome
00:28 - Meet Kat Cosgrove
01:46 - Kubernetes Release Management Insights
02:43 - Naming the Kubernetes Release: Uwubernetes
06:19 - Roles and Responsibilities in Kubernetes Releases
11:18 - Enhancements and Deadlines in Kubernetes Releases
14:22 - Kubernetes Incentive to Upgrade & Support Policies
18:26 - Running Old Versions of Kubernetes
20:17 - Challenges with Using Outdated Software Versions
22:15 - Best Practices for Version Releases
24:36 - Release Team Cycles
26:00 - Kat’s Release Legacy
31:58 - Kat’s Responsibilities Post-Release
33:04 - Future Plans and Contact Information
About Kat Cosgrove
Kat is a Lead Open Source Advocate at Dell focused on the growth and nurturing of open source through authentic contribution. In particular, her specialties are approachable 101-level content and deep dives on the history of technology, with a focus on DevOps and cloud native. She was the Kubernetes Release Lead for 1.30 Uwubernetes, and currently serves as both a Release Team subproject owner and SIG Docs tech lead.
When she’s not at a conference, she spends her time playing video games, watching horror movies, or reading science fiction, but her current hyperfixation is film photography. She lives in Scotland with her cat, Espresso, who is the real brains behind the operation and actually ghostwriting all of her tweets.
Links Referenced
Kubernetes: https://kubernetes.io/
Kat Cosgrove on Twitter: https://x.com/Dixie3Flatline
Kat Cosgrove on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katcosgrove/
Email Kat: kat.cosgrove@gmail.com
* Sponsor
Prowler: https://prowler.com
In this episode, release lead Kat Cosgrove walks us through what's new in Kubernetes 1.30. Recorded at KubeCon EU 2024.
Do you have something cool to share? Some questions? Let us know:
- web: kubernetespodcast.com
- mail: kubernetespodcast@google.com
- twitter: @kubernetespod
News of the week Google Cloud Next Wrap Up Blog
Amazon EKS extended support for Kubernetes versions now generally available
Introducing the Windows Operational Readiness Specification
Links from the interview Kubernetes v1.30: Uwubernetes blog
A Peek at Kubernetes v1.30
Release Team Lead Handbook
Kubernetes Release Team info
Baruch Sadogursky (Chief Sticker Officer at JFrog) joins Natalie & Johnny to lament the current state of dependency management in Go and other languages. They discuss the problems dependency managers face, possible technical mitigations like SBOMs, people problems that will never be solved by tech, and take questions from listeners in the #gotimefm channel of Gophers Slack.
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Featuring:
Baruch Sadogursky – GitHub, X
Natalie Pistunovich – GitHub, X
Johnny Boursiquot – Website, GitHub, X
Show Notes:
Sam Boyer saying dependency managers being a human problem
Pyrsia.io untemperable ledger for modules
PGP Keys
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!