NYTimes vs OpenAI: Generative AI and the Law with Cecilia Ziniti, Founder and CEO of GC AI
In this episode, Nathan sits down with tech lawyer Cecilia Zeniti, Founder & CEO of GC AI, the AI for in-house counsel. They discuss the origins of IP law in the US Constitution to promote creativity, the "fair use doctrine" and how OpenAI could argue ChatGPT is transformative, Google's patenting strategy around the transformer, and much more. If you need an ecommerce platform, check out our sponsor Shopify: https://shopify.com/cognitive for a $1/month trial period.
LINKS:
GC AI: https://getgc.ai/
Cecilia's Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/CeciliaZin
SPONSORS:
Shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business. Shopify powers 10% of ALL eCommerce in the US. And Shopify's the global force behind Allbirds, Rothy's, and Brooklinen, and 1,000,000s of other entrepreneurs across 175 countries.From their all-in-one e-commerce platform, to their in-person POS system – wherever and whatever you're selling, Shopify's got you covered. With free Shopify Magic, sell more with less effort by whipping up captivating content that converts – from blog posts to product descriptions using AI. Sign up for $1/month trial period: https://shopify.com/cognitive
Omneky is an omnichannel creative generation platform that lets you launch hundreds of thousands of ad iterations that actually work customized across all platforms, with a click of a button. Omneky combines generative AI and real-time advertising data. Mention "Cog Rev" for 10% off www.omneky.com
NetSuite has 25 years of providing financial software for all your business needs. More than 36,000 businesses have already upgraded to NetSuite by Oracle, gaining visibility and control over their financials, inventory, HR, eCommerce, and more. If you're looking for an ERP platform ✅ head to NetSuite: http://netsuite.com/cognitive and download your own customized KPI checklist.
X/SOCIALS:
@labenz (Nathan)
@CeciliaZin (Cecilia)
@CogRev_Podcast
TIMESTAMPS:
(00:04:30) - Introduction to Intellectual Property law
(00:07:30) - Overview of main types of intellectual property - patents, trademarks, copyrights
(00:10:30) - Could Google have patented the transformer? Google’s patent strategy
(00:16:30) - Claim construction and its parallel to LLMs
(00:17:17) - Sponsor: Shopify
(00:18:46) - Practical impact of open source on ability to enforce IP rights
(00:21:47) - Litigation, internal data privacy, and communication
(00:24:30) - Copyright law and fair use doctrine for transformative works
(00:30:22) - Sponsor: Netsuite | Omneky
(00:31:42) - Big tech company lawsuits when money starts shifting between incumbents and newcomers
(00:34:10) - When judges like a technology…
(00:34:57) - Scraping and LinkedIn’s suit
(00:38:50) - NYTimes vs OpenAI
(00:40:00) - Copyright, creators, and music industry licensing
(00:42:35) - Transformative nature of work and “fair use”
(00:50:29) - Limits on getting injunctions and ongoing royalties from courts
(00:56:39) - Legalities of other modalities, like DALL-E images of copyrighted IP
(01:01:00) - OpenAI’s opt-out for licensing on the text modality
(01:03:58) - OpenAI’s weak to strong generalization
(01:07:00) - Pharmaceuticals and software, AI doctors, public good balancing
(01:10:40) - Why licensed professionals aren’t pushing back against AI
(01:15:36) - Duty to use tools for efficiency to a client
(01:17:04) - Impact of open source and ability to find someone to sue
(01:20:30) - Forward-looking thoughts on what IP laws should be for AI
(01:27:38) - Overview of Cecilia's company GC AI for lawyers
This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at erik@turpentine.co.
AI on Trial: Inside the NY Times vs. OpenAI Lawsuit with Cecilia Ziniti | E1874
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Today’s show:
Cecilia joins Jason for an in-depth discussion about the New York Times versus OpenAI case, delving into the intricacies of fair use and analyzing the Fair Use Test (6:07), examining the legal complexities surrounding data scraping for Large Language Models (28:21), exploring possible ramifications of this legal confrontation between these titans (40:06), and more!
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Timestamps:
(0:00) Cecilia Joins Jason
(2:44) Cecilia’s Background in Law
(3:44) Jumping into the case of NY Times vs OpenAI.
(6:07) Exploring Fair Use legal tests
(11:57) MEV - Get $30,000 off your first three months at http://www.mev.com/twist
(13:50) The case of Roy Orbison vs Two Live Crew and the music industry’s rules on fair use.
(19:04) Picking apart the defense of attribution.
(22:22) Northwest Registered Agent - Get a 60% discount on your next LLC at http://www.northwestregisteredagent.com/twist
(24:43) Fair Use Test: Factors two and three
(28:21) Legal challenges in data scraping for LLMs
(32:40) Paintbrush - Visit http://www.getpaintbrush.com to see if you qualify for a $50K startup loan in less than 2 minutes
(34:19) The fourth and final factor in the Fair Use Test.
(40:06) Potential outcomes of NY Times vs OpenAI case
(47:04) Google vs Java and legal discussions on digital platforms
(51:49) Jason shares a possible solution to this case and how the subscription wall could change things.
(57:54) Cecilia’s Grinch images on X
(1:02:22) Legal viewpoint regarding commercial vs non-commercial use.
(1:04:14) Summarizing where all this is going with the NY Times and OpenAI trial.
(1:12:18) Reviewing the market-based solution to this case.
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Check out GC AI: https://getgc.ai
Website: ceciliaziniti.com
Check out Ziniti Law: https://www.zinitilaw.com/
Check out Cecilia’s Maven Course here: https://maven.com/ceciliaz
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Thanks to our partners:
(11:57) MEV - Get $30,000 off your first three months at http://www.mev.com/twist
(22:22) Northwest Registered Agent - Get a 60% discount on your next LLC athttp://www.northwestregisteredagent.com/twist
(32:40) Paintbrush - Visit http://www.getpaintbrush.com to see if you qualify for a $50K startup loan in less than 2 minutes
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Follow Cecilia
X: https://twitter.com/CeciliaZin
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ceciliaziniti/
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Follow Jason:
X: https://twitter.com/jason
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jason
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasoncalacanis
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Great 2023 interviews: Steve Huffman, Brian Chesky, Aaron Levie, Sophia Amoruso, Reid Hoffman, Frank Slootman, Billy McFarland
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Check out Jason’s suite of newsletters: https://substack.com/@calacanis
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Follow TWiST:
Substack: https://twistartups.substack.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/TWiStartups
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/thisweekin
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Subscribe to the Founder University Podcast: https://www.founder.university/podcast