SaaStr 772: What Really Matters in SaaS in 2025 with Jason Lemkin and Dave Kellogg
SaaStr 772: What Really Matters in SaaS in 2025 with Jason Lemkin and Dave Kellogg
In this episode, SaaStr CEO and Founder Jason Lemkin and Dave Kellogg, Executive in Residence at Balderton Capital (+ SaaStr fan favorite) share what really matters in SaaS for 2025.
We delve into 5 key topics in SaaS and cloud for 2025, discussing the future of AI in B2B, strategic pricing changes, the impact of moving customer success to sales, and the state of private equity deals. Dave provides a unique perspective on re-founding companies and addressing slow growth in SaaS. This episode is packed with expert opinions on navigating the evolving landscape of SaaS and cloud businesses. Don't miss the deep dive into pressing issues every SaaS founder and executive should be aware of going into 2025.
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SaaStr hosts the largest SaaS community events on the planet.
Hey everybody - thanks to the 10,000 of you who came out to SaaStr Annual. We had a blast and big news -- we'll be back in MAY of 2025. That's right, the SaaStr Annual will be a bit earlier next year, May 13-15 2025. We'll still be back in the same venue, in the SF bay area at the 40+ acre sprawling san mateo county events center. Grab your tickets at saastrannual.com with code NOVEMBER20 for an extra discount on our very best pricing.
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20VC: The Metrics That Matter in SaaS Today; Why CaC Payback is Flawed & CAC Ratio is Better, Why You Need to Hire Three Sales Reps at a Time, How to Forecast in 2024 & Biggest Mistakes Made Forecasting & How to Make Customer Success Sell More with Dave K
Dave Kellogg is one of the OGs of Saas. Among his many accomplishments, Dave was the CMO of Business Objects where he helped scale the business from $30M to $1BN in revenue. Dave has also been a CEO twice, once scaling the business from $0 to $80M and the other business from $8M to $50M before selling it. Dave is also an advisor to some of the best including GainSight, Logickull, MongoDB, Pigment, Recorded Future, and Tableau.
In Today's Episode with Dave Kellogg We Discuss:
1. What are the Metrics That Matter:
Why is CAC payback period such a flawed metric?
What is CAC ratio? Why is it more effective than understanding payback?
Why is gross revenue retention more important than net revenue retention?
What are the single biggest mistakes that founders make when using metrics today?
2. How to Build and Scale the Best Sales Teams:
Why should founders hire three sales reps at one time? What is the benefit?
What are the three different types of sales calls all teams must have?
What should all CEOs and Heads of Sales ask of their sales team in forecasting?
What is the single biggest mistake most companies make in forecasting?
How should a CEO/board member respond to a sales team that lets a deal slip to next quarter?
3. Are CFOs Buying New Tech and How to Win Renewals:
Are CFOs open for business? How has the top down sales process changed in the last year?
Why is the way that startups think about renewals completely broken?
What are the three different types of customer success teams we have today?
What is the core role of customer success? How can we incentivise them to sell more?
4. Mastering Product Marketing, Customer Profiles and Crossing the Chasm:
How can we use product marketing to increase sales velocity?
What is the single biggest risk in product marketing today?
What does Dave mean when he says "an ICP starts as an aspiration and becomes a regression?"
SaaStr 709: 15 Signs You Have A SaaS Metrics Problem (and How to Fix it) with Dave Kellogg, EIR at Balderton Capital
SaaStr 709: 15 Signs You Have A SaaS Metrics Problem (and How to Fix it) with Dave Kellogg, EIR at Balderton Capital
In this episode of the SaaStr Podcast, SaaStr OG and fan fave, Dave Kellogg, EIR at Balderton Capital, walks you through the complexities of SaaS metrics.
With a wealth of experience leading major SaaS and enterprise software firms, Dave delves into the art of leveraging metrics for strategic advantage and the potential pitfalls of their misinterpretation. This episode will equip you with a nuanced understanding of how SaaS metrics can shape success and why careful interpretation is paramount.
SaaStr hosts the largest SaaS community events on the planet.
Join us in 2024 at:
SaaStr Annual: Sept. 10-12 in the SF Bay Area. Join 12,500 SaaS professionals, CEOs, revenue leaders and investors for the world's LARGEST SaaS community event of the year. Podcast listeners can grab a discount on tickets here: https://www.saastrannual2024.com/buy-tickets?promo=fave20
SaaStr Europa: June 5-6 in London. We'll be hosting the 5th SaaStr Europa in London for two days of content and networking. Join 3,000 SaaS and Cloud leaders. Podcast listeners can grab a discount on Europa tickets here: https://www.saastreuropa2024.com/buy-tickets?promo=fave200
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This episode is sponsored by: Northwest Registered Agent
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SaaStr 574: 5 Scale-Up Mistakes for Startups with Dave Kellogg
Scale-up seems easier than start-up in many ways. You've established product-market fit. You've sold $5 or $10M in ARR. You've found a buyer persona to sell and problem (aka, use-case) to solve. You've answered all the hard questions. Now, all you have to do is scale it up. Easy-peasy, right? Not so fast. In this presentation, I'll cover what I see as the top 5 mistakes made during the scale-up phase based on my experience as a CEO of two startups in the $0 to $100M range, CMO of two in the $50M to $1B range, advisor to dozens of startups, and EIR at Balderton capital where we work with scores of startups at both the early and growth stages. We'll discuss: premature scaling, US expansion, insufficient enablement and support, inexperienced management, and the delicate topic of reacceleration after a stall. As a bonus, we'll talk about when your "second album" (i.e., product) should come out and how to maintain focus in a world of market- and sometimes board-driven distractions.
Want to join the SaaStr community? We're the 🌎largest community for B2B software.
Subscribe for weekly updates: https://www.saastr.com/subscribeform
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Quora Group: https://www.quora.com/q/cloud
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SaaStr/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/saastr/
Our North American Event: https://bit.ly/2OXeAYh
Our European Event: https://bit.ly/2OZTad8
SaaStr 515: A CEO's Guide to Marketing with Dave Kellogg
No one word strikes more terror in the heart of product-, engineering-, or even sales-oriented founders and CEOs than "marketing." How to understand marketing? How to drive marketing? How to measure marketing? What to look for in a marketing leader? In this session, we'll talk about how CEOs (and other startup execs) should think about, charter, direct, and support marketing.
Full video: https://youtu.be/ggUwcE600xU
Blog post: https://www.saastr.com/a-ceos-guide-to-marketing-with-dave-kellogg-five-things-every-founder-should-know-podcast-515-and-video/
Want to join the SaaStr community? We're the 🌎largest community for B2B software.
Subscribe for weekly updates: https://www.saastr.com/subscribeform
Twitter: https://twitter.com/saastr
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/2724976
Quora Group: https://www.quora.com/q/cloud
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SaaStr/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/saastr/
Our North American Event: https://bit.ly/2OXeAYh
Our European Event: https://bit.ly/2OZTad8
SaaStr 381: Churn is dead. Long Live Net Dollar Retention Rate with Dave Kellogg, Principal @ Kellogg Consulting
There are a lot of problems with calculating churn rates. Moreover, public companies don't generally release churn rates. Learn what they are and how to calculate them correctly.
Video and blog post: https://www.saastr.com/churn-is-dead/
Pivot Schooled #2: The New Generation of Innovators, with Nextdoor CEO Sarah Friar and investor Rana Yared
In this audio version of the second episode of our live video series Pivot Schooled, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the future of innovation in the US and worldwide. They interview Nextdoor CEO Sarah Friar and Balderton Capital general partner Rana Yared, answer questions from the audience, and make predictions. Plus: A prediction from Silicon Valley actor Suzanne Cryer, and why TikTok isn't selling to anybody.
Get your tickets for the next Pivot Schooled, "The Big Four," at PivotSchooled.com.
Get your Pivot Schooled hats, mugs, shirts and more at PivotSchooled.com/Shop.
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SaaStr 241: Dave Kellogg on The BIggest Takeaways From Being In The Room For Sequoia's "RIP Good Times", Why Founders Should Raise As Much As Possible But Spend According To Plan & The Right Way To Think About Effective Quota Construction
Dave Kellogg is a leading technology executive, independent board member, advisor and angel investor. In his most recent role, Dave was the CEO @ Host Analytics where he quintupled ARR, halved customer acquisition costs and increased net retention rates before selling the company to a private equity sponsor. Before that Dave was SVP/GM of Service Cloud @ Salesforce where he led the $500m line of business for customer service applications. Finally pre-Salesforce, Dave was CEO @ MarkLogic where he grew the team from 40 to 240 and revenues from $0 to an $80m revenue run rate. If that was not enough, Dave currently or has previously sat on the boards of Nuxeo, Alation, Aster Data and Granular.
In Today's Episode We Discuss:
How did Dave make his way into the world of SaaS over 20 years ago? How did seeing the boom and bust of the dot com and 2008 affect Dave's operating mentality?
What were his biggest lessons from being in the Sequoia boardroom when they presented "RIP good time"? How does Dave think about when is the right time to raise? How does Dave advise founders on how much is the right amount to raise? Does Dave agree that if the money is on the table founding teams should take it? Why does Dave believe 99% of companies die?
The first step in being acquired by a PE house is "making the book", what goes into "making the book"? Who is involved? How long does it take? What are the clear differences between a good book and a bad book? How should execs think about making exciting enough go-forward plans for it to be attractive to buyers but also realistic enough that they can hit it in the acquisition process?
How does the selection for who receives the book look? Who decides this? What is the fundamental aim in the distribution of the book to many parties at the same time? What does Dave know now about the world of PE that he wishes he had known at the beginning? IOI's is the next step, what are they? How do they set up the process from there?
How do management meetings with potential PE acquiring firms compare to founders meeting VCs in the early days? How many meetings is normal to have in this process? How long do they last? What does Dave believe is crucial to achieve in these in person meetings? How much of a role does price play in selecting the ultimate acquiror? How much of a role does their brand and reputation play?
60 Second SaaStr:
What does Dave know about the process that he wishes he had known at the beginning?
The biggest misconception about the world of PE and acquisitions?
Burn rate is a function of the personality of the CEO? Agree or disagree? Why?
Read the full transcript on our blog.
If you would like to find out more about the show and the guests presented, you can follow us on Twitter here:
Jason Lemkin
Harry Stebbings
SaaStr
Dave Kellogg
SaaStr 232: Fmr. Host Analytics CEO Dave Kellogg on The Top 5 Questions Every CEO Wrestles With
Dave Kellogg is CEO of Host Analytics and prolific blogger. Join him as he takes you through lessons learned from Host Analytics on the top questions every SaaS CEO wrestles with. Dave was CEO of Host Analytics from 2012 to 2018 where he quintupled ARR while halving customer acquisition costs in a highly competitive market, ultimately selling the company in a private equity transaction.
Missed the session? Here's what Dave talks about:
When is the right time to raise money?
How can you better manage the board?
Should you worry about competitors?
If you would like to find out more about the show and the guests presented, you can follow us on Twitter here:
Jason Lemkin
SaaStr
Dave Kellogg
SaaStr 179: What It Means To Be An ARR First SaaS Company, The Most Commonly Misunderstood SaaS Metrics & Why Renewals Does Not Mean Happy Customers with Dave Kellogg, CEO @ Host Analytics
Dave Kellogg is the CEO @ Host Analytics, the leader in cloud-based enterprise performance management (EPM). Previously, Dave was SVP/GM of Service Cloud at Salesforce and CEO at unstructured big data provider MarkLogic. Before that, Dave was CMO at Business Objects for nearly a decade as the company grew from $30M to over $1B. Dave has also worked in various capacities with the likes of Breeze, GainSight, Tableau and MongoDB and previously sat on the boards of ag tech leader, Granular (acq by DuPont for $300M) and big data leader Aster Data (acquired by Teradata for $325M).
In Today's Episode You Will Learn:
Why does Dave believe it is foundational to be an ARR first company? How does Dave think startups can show their ARR first mentality from the first investor meeting? How does this help drive operational efficiency? How does Dave segment ARR into 3 distinct camps?
Why does Dave argue that SaaS metrics are not nearly as simple as they seem? Which metrics does Dave believe most founders confuse? What metrics will the best VCs pick apart and dig deep on? How can founders respond with accuracy and confidence?
How does Dave respond to multi-year deals? Under what conditions are they acceptable and not acceptable? How must they be reported in accounting? Where do many startups go wrong when considering multi-year deals? How important is it for them to be pre-paid?
Why does Dave argue that renewals do not measure customer satisfaction?What is an accurate measurement to determine customer satisfaction? How often should this be conducted? What sample size of customer gives the right amount of data?
How does Dave approach comp with regards to sales team cross-sell and upsell? Why is it not as black and white as boards often portray? Under which circumstances does Dave believe double comp is justified and not justified? How can you communicate this to your board successfully?
Read the full transcript on our blog.
If you would like to find out more about the show and the guests presented, you can follow us on Twitter here:
Jason Lemkin
Harry Stebbings
SaaStr
Dave Kellogg
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SaaStr 142: Why CAC/LTV Is The Most Important Metric In SaaS, How To Analyse Churn Correctly & Why Bookings Are Inaccurate and Easy To Manipulate with Dave Kellogg, CEO @ Host Analytics
Dave Kellogg is the CEO @ Host Analytics, the leader in cloud-based enterprise performance management (EPM). Previously, Dave was SVP/GM of Service Cloud at Salesforce and CEO at unstructured big data provider MarkLogic. Before that, Dave was CMO at Business Objects for nearly a decade as the company grew from $30M to over $1B. Dave has also worked in various capacities with the likes of Breeze, GainSight, Tableau and MongoDB and previously sat on the boards of ag tech leader, Granular (acq by DuPont for $300M) and big data leader Aster Data (acquired by Teradata for $325M).
In Today's Episode You Will Learn:
How Dave made his way into the world of SaaS with Salesforce, came to be CMO at Business Objects and now running his own SaaS company as CEO at Host Analytics?
What does David believe is the single most important metric in SaaS? How should SaaS companies structure the first four lines of their financial statements? Why is retention and renewal not always an accurate sign of customer satisfaction?
How does Dave look to analyse churn? What is the post-mortem? What is more important, logos or expansion? If a startup's churn is too high, what is the top 3 things they should do? Why must you have a "standard taxonomy" for churn? How can you construct this?
How does David think about taking existing customer and up-selling them? How does he view this in contrast to cross-sell? Does Dave agree with David Skok on the need for more than 1 variable pricing mechanism? Why does Dave not encourage usage based pricing?
How does Dave analyse the benefits of multi-year contracts paid upfront? How does this distort TCV and inflate the figures? Does upfront payment misalign the provider and the consumer, in terms of care and support? With that in mind, how does David view billing frequency? Contract durations?
60 Second SaaStr
What does Dave know now which he wishes he had known at the beginning?
What is the 90 day rule? Why is it important?
How much ARR should a good sales rep add in relation to comp?
If you would like to find out more about the show and the guests presented, you can follow us on Twitter here:
Jason Lemkin
Harry Stebbings
SaaStr
Dave Kellogg
20VC: Europe's Youngest Series A Venture Partner, James Wise @ Balderton Capital on How To Get Into Venture & What The Future Of The VC Industry Looks Like
James Wise is a partner at Balderton Capital, one of Europe's leading early stage venture funds with $2.5B in funds. The youngest partner at a Series A fund in Europe, at 29 James has already led on deals including the likes of Crowdcube, SketchFab, 3D Hubs, Sunrise and Workable amongst others. He discusses his unusual background, coming into VC after previously setting up and running a charity, why he thinks geography matters less than every and why he continues to focus on areas in healthtech and edutech as well as many other emerging sectors. In Today's Episode You Will Learn: 1.) As Europe’s youngest venture partner, is venture capital a viable career going forward? What makes James say this? Has there been a time when you doubted this thesis and why?
2.) So it is a viable career, where do we go from here? Why should we choose venture in Europe over venture in the US? What are the inherent pros and cons? Does James get the itch to head to the Valley?
3.) So VC in Europe is the place to be, so why did James choose Balderton? There are a plethora of great and emerging funds in Europe, what attracted James to Balderton?
4.) What does the next 10 years of VC look like? Where we are heading? Although a viable career now, will this continue to be with increasing power of crowd sourced financing and decreasing startup costs?
5.) What advice would James give a young individual looking to get into the industry? How can an individual show their passion and inherent interest for VC and startups in a tangible way?
Items Mentioned In Today's Episode:
James' Fave Blog: The Morning Paper by Adrian Colyer, Nathan Benaich Newsletter
James' Fave Book: Score Takes Care Of Itself: Bill Walsh, Nick Bostrum: Superintelligence
James' Most Recent Investment: Magic Pony
As always you can follow The Twenty Minute VC, Harry and James on Twitter here! If you would like to see a more colourful side to Harry with many a mojito session, you can follow him on Instagram here! The Twenty Minute VC is brought to you by Leesa, the Warby Parker or TOMS shoes of the mattress industry. Lees have done away with the terrible mattress showroom buying experience by creating a luxury premium foam mattress that is order completely online and ships for free to your doorstep. The 10 inch mattress comes in all sizes and is engineered with 3 unique foam layers for a universal, adaptive feel, including 2 inches of memory foam and 2 inches of a really cool latex foam called Avena, design to keep you cool. All Leesa mattresses are 100% US or UK made and for every 10 mattresses they sell, they donate one to a shelter. Go to Leesa.com/VC and enter the promo code VC75 to get $75 off!
20 VC 091: Daniel Waterhouse @ Balderton Capital on Investing Styles, Venture Landscapes and The Future of AI
Daniel Waterhouse is a General Partner @ Balderton Capital, which he joined in 2013 and he currently sits on the boards of Top10, ROLI, Lovecrafts, TrademarkNow, Tictail, Achica, Thread and Workable. Prior to Balderton, Daniel spent 5 years as a partner at Wellington Partners and invested in a number of fast-growing companies including EyeEm, Hailo, YPlan, Bookatable (also a Balderton portfolio company), SumAll, Readmill (sold to Dropbox) and Qype (sold to Yelp). Before Wellington, Daniel was a sector partner at 3i where he worked on all of their venture and private equity investments in the internet sector in North America and Europe.
In Today's Episode You Will Learn:
1.) How Daniel made his way into the wonderful world of VC?
2.) How has Daniel's mathematics background impacted his investing style?
3.) At Balderton 50% of the partners have very operational backgrounds and 50% are much more investment rooted. What has Daniel gained and missed as an investor from having a outside view of the startup world?
4.) How has Daniel seen the landscape change in the last 15 years? What was his first pitch meeting like? What was his last like?
5.) What are Daniel's thoughts on the enterprise SaaS space? Do Daniel think there is further to go in the consumerisation of Enterprise Software? Does the announcement of Emergence moving from the sector signal a turning tide?
6.) Daniel led the investment in Curious AI and Thread, using machine learning to augment its stylist approach, so what makes Daniel excited about the developments in AI? How is the sector going to develop over the next 20 years?
Items Mentioned In Today's Show:
Daniel's Fave Book: The Brain That Teaches Itself
Daniel's Most Recent Investment: Curious AI
As always you can follow Harry, The Twenty Minute VC and Daniel on Twitter here!
If you would like to see a more colourful side to Harry with many a mojito session, you can follow him on Instagram here!
I would like to say a huge thank you to our sponsor for today's show: LoyaltyBay. Have you ever wished more of your website visitors would convert into a sale, signup or referral? If so, you need Loyalty Bay. With their saas conversion optimizer tool they increase any conversion metric by offering potential customers a choice of personalised rewards to get them to convert. They work with large enterprises like Virgin Media through to startups and have increased conversions on average by over 100%. Free 30 day trial at www.loyaltybay.co.uk
20 VC 090: Balderton Capital's General Partner, Suranga Chandratillake on What It Takes To Be A Great CEO
Suranga Chandratillake is a General Partner @ Balderton Capital. He was previously an entrepreneur and engineer having founded blinkx, the intelligent search engine for video and audio content in Cambridge in 2004. He then lead the company for eight years as CEO through its journey of moving to San Francisco, building a profitable business and going public in London where it achieved a peak market capitalisation in excess of $1Bn. Before founding blinkx, Suranga was an early employee at Autonomy Corporation - joining as an engineer in the Cambridge R&D team and ultimately serving as the company's US CTO in San Francisco.
In Today's Episode You Will Learn:
1.) How Suranga made his way into the wonderful world of VC?
2.) Why are so many technical European CEOs fearful of continuing the position as CEO? What can we do to improve it?
3.) What does Suranga think makes a great CEO? Which CEO Suranga respects the most and why?
4.) How have Suranga's years as an entrepreneur affected his investing style? Does Suranga have a consistent investing style or does he look to iterate a lot?
5.) Balderton is an Equal Partnership VC, what does that really entail? Why does Suranga think this model is the most efficient? Looking at the new appointment of Lars, how do the GPs assess new candidates for the treasured GP position?
6.) What sectors is Suranga most excited by and why? Does Suranga think there is further to go in the consumerisation of Enterprise Software? Does the announcement of Emergence moving from the sector signal a turning tide?
Items Mentioned In Today's Show:
Suranga's Fave Book: The Old Man And The Sea
Suranga's Most Recent Investment: Cloud Nine
As always you can follow Harry, The Twenty Minute VC and Suranga on Twitter here!
If you would like to see a more colourful side to Harry with many a mojito session, you can follow him on Instagram here!
I would like to say a huge thank you to our sponsor for today's show: LoyaltyBay. Have you ever wished more of your website visitors would convert into a sale, signup or referral? If so, you need Loyalty Bay. With their saas conversion optimizer tool they increase any conversion metric by offering potential customers a choice of personalised rewards to get them to convert. They work with large enterprises like Virgin Media through to startups and have increased conversions on average by over 100%. Free 30 day trial at www.loyaltybay.co.uk
20 VC 047: 4 Ways Investors Find Great Startups with Rob Moffat, Principal @ Balderton Capital
Rob Moffat is Principal at Balderton Capital, one of London's leading VC firms. At Balderton Rob specialises in Fintech, Martech, Gaming and Marketplaces. Rob is currently a board director or observer with six portfolio companies: Qubit, Wooga, Housetrip, Carwow, Rentify and Nutmeg. Other investments Rob has been involved with at Balderton include Citymapper, Top10, Scoot and Archify. Prior to joining Balderton Rob worked for Google in London, as a Manager in the European Strategy and Operations team. He started his career with five years in strategy consulting with Bain, working mostly with financial services clients.
In today's amazing discussion with Rob we discover:
What characteristics make a great VC?
How VCs assess incoming business plans and investment opportunities?
The biggest problem facing Rob today, as Principal at Balderton?
How the structure of VC firms is changing to a service based environment?
Does Crowdfunding pose a threat to VC as a alternative method of finance?
For individuals wanting to move into Venture, what can they do to optimise their employability in the VC world?
Items Mentioned in Today's Show:
Rob Moffat: Medium
Rob's Favourite Book: The Circle: Dave Eggers
Crowdcube
Just Park
Nutmeg: Online Investment Management
As always you can follow Harry, Rob and The Twenty Minute VC on Twitter here!
20 VC 019: Funding the Future with James Wise of Balderton Capital
James Wise is Principal at Balderton Capital, one of Europe's most successful venture funds. At Balderton, James invests and advises early-stage technology start-ups, holding board member positions at Crowdcube.com, Surnrise.am, 3Dhubs.com and many more... Prior to Balderton, James helped build one of the UK's first social venture funds and was a consultant at McKinsey & Company, working with entrepreneurs in Europe, the Middle East and Africa.
Items Mentioned in Todays's Show:
Crowdcube.com
JustPark
Sunrise.am
Chilango
MyTomorrows.com
An Intimate History of Humanity by Theodore Zeldin
What you will learn in today's show:
How James made his entry into the world of Venture Capital?
How does James feel the VC model differs in the UK compared to the US?
Does Silicon Valley deserve the plaudits it receives for producing revolutionary tech companies?
Following Balderton's recent investment in Crowdcube.com, how does James believe the crowd will become more involved in the future?
Is Crowdfunding not a competing method of financing to Venture Capital?
What is Balderton's competitive advantage for winning deals?
What James believes makes the perfect Series A round?
Does James believe the mini-bond, introduced by Crowdcube.com have the potential to revolutionise funding for businesses?
Which sector James is most excited about and why?
When thinking of success who is the first person that comes to James' mind and why?
We then move into a rapid fire round where we hear James' thoughts on his latest investment and why he said yes? Does James experience a fear of missing out (FOMO) when passing on investments? Finally, James' favourite book and why?