Zcash, Ethereum, Aztec, Canton and More: Which Chain Will Win the Privacy Race?
Privacy is having a moment in crypto. As competition heats up, the pitfalls of the technology around the quantum threat, regulatory risk and more make the trajectory hard to predict.
A counterfeit bug sat undetected in Zcash's Orchard privacy pool for four years, capable of minting an unlimited supply of untraceable coins, illustrating the risks of one of the hottest crazes in crypto.
Joe Andrews, CEO of Aztec Labs, Jarrad Hope, founder of Logos, and Mert Mumtaz, cofounder and CEO of Helius, join Laura Shin to argue the bug is less alarming than what it reveals: cryptographic privacy is difficult to get right, and the industry is racing to get it right anyway, because institutions will not come onchain without it.
They cover Zcash's quantum-recoverable Ironwood upgrade and the turnstile proving the counterfeit coins never moved, Ethereum's sprawling privacy roadmap and the risk it arrives too late, Logos' mixnet built to protect validators from block relays now censoring transactions, and why all three see Canton's private stablecoins as little more than a bank with extra steps.
The fight over what actually counts as privacy on a blockchain is only getting started.
Host
Laura Shin - Founder, CEO and Host of Unchained
Guest
Joe Andrews - CEO of Aztec Labs
Jarrad Hope - Founder of Logos
Mert Mumtaz - Cofounder and CEO of Helius
Sponsor
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Timestamps:
🔐 01:52 Why Joe, Jarrad, and Mert think privacy's crypto moment is now
💙 18:18 Cape: Get 33% off your first six months with code unchained at https://cape.co/unchained
⚖️ 19:14 Why Jarrad says the weak need privacy and the powerful need transparency
🔬 24:49 How zero knowledge proofs actually update encrypted state onchain
🕸️ 33:07 Why 43.7% of block relays now censor, and how Logos fixes it
🐛 36:32 The undetected Zcash bug that could have minted infinite fake coins
🔒 46:32 Mert explains how Zcash's Ironwood upgrade closes the counterfeit hole
🛤️ 51:44 Why Joe worries Ethereum's privacy roadmap might arrive too late
🏦 57:39 Why Mert calls Canton no more private than trusting JPMorgan
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The Private World Computer | Aztec Co-Founders Zac Williamson & Joe Andrews
If crypto wins without privacy, did we actually win?
In this episode, Ryan sits down with Aztec co-founders Zac Williamson and Joe Andrews to unpack their eight-year quest to build a private world computer for Ethereum, covering the Aztec ignition chain, zero-knowledge-powered “private intents,” and how you can route trades across L1 and L2s without exposing your strategies or balances. They dive into ZK Passport (turning your NFC e-passport into a proof of personhood), the coming breakdown of selfie KYC in an AI world, holistic on-chain identity, Aztec’s one-shot move to a fully decentralized L2. Along the way, Zac and Joe get candid about the regulatory risk of building privacy rails, echoes of the early SSL wars, and what keeps them grinding after nearly a decade of R&D to ship Aztec Alpha
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TIMESTAMPS
0:00 Intro
6:00 The State of Privacy on Ethereum in 2025
9:47 Identity as the Missing Piece of Privacy
11:52 AI Deepfakes Just Broke Web2 KYC
20:19 How ZK Passport Plugs Into Aztec (and the Token Sale)
23:04 Holistic On-Chain Identity: Bottom-Up, Not Top-Down
30:54 From Private Bitcoin to a Private World Computer
36:36 Private Intents: Using Aztec as Ethereum’s Privacy Router
43:15 Compliant DeFi with ZK Identity in the Loop
48:37 Does This Actually Solve Privacy on Ethereum?
50:38 Ignition Chain Launch: Stage-2 Rollup with Decentralized Sequencers
56:19 One-Shot Decentralization, Alpha/Beta, and Security Model
1:05:37 Scaling a Private Rollup: TPS, Fees, and the Aztec Stack
1:11:40 Noir, No VM for Private State, and New DeFi Primitives
1:17:08 Selective Disclosure and ZK Receipts for Regulators
1:21:29 Privacy vs Nation States: The Second Crypto Privacy War
1:29:45 Why Keep Building Privacy After 8 Years?
1:33:37 Token Sale, Fair Auctions, and Running an Aztec Node
1:37:33 Closing Thoughts: The Most Cypherpunk L2 Since 2016?
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RESOURCES
Zac Williamson
https://x.com/Zac_Aztec
Joe Andrews
https://x.com/jaosef
Aztec
https://x.com/aztecnetwork
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Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:
https://www.bankless.com/disclosures
With Aztec's Ignition Chain Launched, Will Ethereum Have Decentralized Privacy? - Ep. 958
Check out our sponsor Uniswap!
Fresh off the launch of Ignition Chain, Aztec’s co-founders Zac Williamson and Joe Andrews discuss why they’re rolling out a privacy-preserving L2 now, how they’re approaching decentralization from the start, and why they chose a token sale instead of the airdrop model.
They also explain why they believe most L2s have evolved into “parasitic” ecosystems, how Aztec plans to avoid those incentives, what the AZTEC token is meant to do, and what’s changed in the broader privacy renaissance across crypto.
Guests:
Zac Williamson, Cofounder of Aztec Network
Joe Andrews, Co-founder and President of Aztec Network
Links:
Unchained:
Vitalik Unveils New Ethereum Privacy Toolkit 'Kohaku'
ETH's HTTP Moment? How Ethereum Interop Layer Hopes to Fix L2 Fragmentation
Zcash Developer Reveals Q4 Roadmap
What’s the Best Way for Ethereum to Grow? Justin Drake and Martin Köppelmann Debate
Why the Privacy Coins Mania Is Much More Than Price Action
CoinDesk: Privacy-Focused Aztec Network's Ignition Chain Lights Up
Timestamps:
🎙️ 0:00 Introduction
🚀 1:30 Why Aztec launched Ignition Chain and how it works
🔒 6:01 How Aztec’s privacy model differs from Ethereum’s efforts — and from Zcash
⏱️ 15:52 Why Aztec has large block times
💸 17:28 Are fees expensive on Aztec?
👥 22:04 Zac & Joe’s backstory — and how Aztec was born
🏗️ 25:21 Why they built an L2 on Ethereum instead of a standalone chain
🤝 28:38 Whether Aztec competes with — or complements — Ethereum privacy tools like Kohaku
🎯 31:40 Who Aztec is for and the use cases they’re targeting
🆔 34:50 What ZK Passport is and why it matters
🌅 35:57 Whether the privacy renaissance surprised them
🕶️ 39:42 What private DeFi on Aztec could unlock
⚡ 43:36 Why Zac says most L2s are “parasitic” and why Aztec isn’t
🛠️ 46:07 How Aztec plans to decentralize from day one
🪙 50:15 The role of the AZTEC token and details on the upcoming ICO
🎯 53:25 How they aim to run a “fair” token sale
🌍 59:20 Why most countries, even the U.S., can participate in the ICO
💻 1:00:22 Why Aztec built its own programming language
⚖️ 1:07:29 Whether the Tornado Cash case made them hesitant to ship privacy tools
📱 1:11:48 The apps Zac and Joe are most excited about on Aztec
🎮 1:16:31 Why Zac is bullish on ZK-powered onchain games
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